Vote Count?

[B.O.B.]

I am proud to see the AMFA Mechanics at NWA stand up and say NO! Why should they say yes? Sign on the dotted line and now you're furloughed.

If SCABS like PTO would just find a normal job and not cross the picket line. If they did then the AMFA members would get what they want. NWA would have no choice or shut the airline down.

SCABS...GO HOME!


UNITY PAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PlayTheOdds]

You guys just do not get it do you? Most of the guys here are X-union members that were abandoned by their unions. Most of these guys worked side by side some of you. You AA guys need to understand that many of your brothers are here. You guys are quick to bash but where were you at when these guys were losing their union protected jobs? You X-TWA guys have no buisness calling a scab a scab.

 

[aafsc]

You guys just do not get it do you? Most of the guys here are X-union members that were abandoned by their unions. Most of these guys worked side by side some of you. You AA guys need to understand that many of your brothers are here. You guys are quick to bash but where were you at when these guys were losing their union protected jobs? You X-TWA guys have no buisness calling a scab a scab.

I hate to say it, but I agree with you on this point. Many of the NW scabs are part of the 50% that got laid off when NW contracted out a lot of their heavy maintanence. These individuals obviously felt betrayed by the union. The ex-TWAers that are there feel they have been screwed by AA, the nAAtives, and the TWU (only having their full TWA seniority in MCI). The laid off nAAtives that are there feel they have been screwed by the ex-TWAers (many nAAtives have been bumped by ex-TWAers using their 25% seniority award), AA, and the TWU. These three different groups of people feel bitter about being furloughed before and feel the unions have done nothing for them and this is their way of retaliating. I am not excusing what they did, just explaining how many of them probably feel.

 

[767 mechanic]

I hate to say it, but I agree with you on this point. Many of the NW scabs are part of the 50% that got laid off when NW contracted out a lot of their heavy maintanence. These individuals obviously felt betrayed by the union. The ex-TWAers that are there feel they have been screwed by AA, the nAAtives, and the TWU (only having their full TWA seniority in MCI). The laid off nAAtives that are there feel they have been screwed by the ex-TWAers (many nAAtives have been bumped by ex-TWAers using their 25% seniority award), AA, and the TWU. These three different groups of people feel bitter about being furloughed before and feel the unions have done nothing for them and this is their way of retaliating. I am not excusing what they did, just explaining how many of them probably feel.

Feeling betrayed by there union is nothing more than an excuse and the fact is that they lack moral character. As for the TWA employees. I know a few of them and they are good people and I do not have any problems with them. They were betrayed by the iam. The iam could have ask the nmb for an election,but the iam,twu and the afl-cio knew that they would probably lose to the AMFA as a write in vote. If you think that people have beeen mad since 2003, just wait until the first or second quarter when there are more stations shutdown.

 

[767 mechanic]

You guys just do not get it do you? Most of the guys here are X-union members that were abandoned by their unions. Most of these guys worked side by side some of you. You AA guys need to understand that many of your brothers are here. You guys are quick to bash but where were you at when these guys were losing their union protected jobs? You X-TWA guys have no buisness calling a scab a scab.

The AA people that crossed the picket line at nwa will have a large price to pay when they go back to aa. They have no more morals or character than somebody like yourself. The bottom line is that you and your scab friends do not realize that you are lowering your own wages in the future by crossing the picket line. I can already see what you are going to type. I make enough to get by!!!!!!!!!! That is the main problem with people like you. You would rather just get by on the coat tails of the hard working people. You have no respect for the mechanic and related careers or the responsability that these men and women take. People such as your self will not only be the down fall of this once proud profession,but also the middle class. This makes you and the other scabs nothing more than a leech. I hope that you do not have a wife or kids because they will think that your lack of moral character and ethics is OK and this is one of the down falls of todays youth.

 

[local 12 proud]

I hope that you do not have a wife or kids because they will think that your lack of moral character and ethics is OK and this is one of the down falls of todays youth.

well with a husband and a dad who travels around like some gypsy I would'nt expect he has much influence into the daily home life nor the character building duties.

 

[Hackman]

I hate to say it, but I agree with you on this point. Many of the NW scabs are part of the 50% that got laid off when NW contracted out a lot of their heavy maintanence. These individuals obviously felt betrayed by the union. The ex-TWAers that are there feel they have been screwed by AA, the nAAtives, and the TWU (only having their full TWA seniority in MCI). The laid off nAAtives that are there feel they have been screwed by the ex-TWAers (many nAAtives have been bumped by ex-TWAers using their 25% seniority award), AA, and the TWU. These three different groups of people feel bitter about being furloughed before and feel the unions have done nothing for them and this is their way of retaliating. I am not excusing what they did, just explaining how many of them probably feel.

No surprise you would agree with a scab aafsc. Let me remind you sir, the outsourcing at Scab Air started in 1995 when the IAM agreed to let the DC-10's and the 747's go to China. Why didn't the IAM fight then? AMFA put a limit on the the outsourcing at 38%, the first time at any carrier. To get around this very strong language, Scab Air management used the Force Majuere clause (The war, SARS, 9-11) to outsource and furlough at will. AMFA fought all these Force Majuere cheap shots in arbitration, I think AMFA lost two and won another. What did the iam do at the carriers they represent? US Air? UAL? What the twu do at AA? NOTHING BUT CAPITULATE!!! The former "union members" at Scab Air are mostly old IAM cronies. They are plotting to bring back the IAM any way they can, since the IAM card drives never got more than 500 cards signed in 7 years.. Watch and see how the IAM willingly bends over again for its master in January, Bobby DeScab is nothing more than a scab himself.

As a AA baggage handler, you sure think you know a lot about mechanics issues and AMFA, which in reality you do not. Take your industrial union mantra and be gone, stick to throwing Samsonites. Until one of your beloved industrial unions or the afl-cio starts to fight instead of bend over and moan, your words are nothing but hot air. :huh:

 

[Hackman]

Something would have been better than nothing. Stupidity prevailed :down:

Spoken like a true scab coward.

"Please, pleeeassse masta, don't hit me no 'mo... I be good.... See? I be workin' real hard fo' ya masta...."

Enjoy your scab pittance while it lasts...... h34r:

 

[aafsc]

No surprise you would agree with a scab aafsc. Let me remind you sir, the outsourcing at Scab Air started in 1995 when the IAM agreed to let the DC-10's and the 747's go to China. Why didn't the IAM fight then? AMFA put a limit on the the outsourcing at 38%, the first time at any carrier. To get around this very strong language, Scab Air management used the Force Majuere clause (The war, SARS, 9-11) to outsource and furlough at will. AMFA fought all these Force Majuere cheap shots in arbitration, I think AMFA lost two and won another. What did the iam do at the carriers they represent? US Air? UAL? What the twu do at AA? NOTHING BUT CAPITULATE!!! The former "union members" at Scab Air are mostly old IAM cronies. They are plotting to bring back the IAM any way they can, since the IAM card drives never got more than 500 cards signed in 7 years.. Watch and see how the IAM willingly bends over again for its master in January, Bobby DeScab is nothing more than a scab himself.

As a AA baggage handler, you sure think you know a lot about mechanics issues and AMFA, which in reality you do not. Take your industrial union mantra and be gone, stick to throwing Samsonites. Until one of your beloved industrial unions or the afl-cio starts to fight instead of bend over and moan, your words are nothing but hot air. :huh:

1. PTO stated that there were former union members at NW who are now scabbing; be they former IAM supporters, former AMFA supporters, or former TWU members laid off from AA. Just because I agree with him on a fact does not mean I support his or anyone else crossing a picket line.

2.While I do not know the details of contracts at other airlines, I get a pretty good idea of what those contracts were like from reading the posts on other websites of people who were covered under those contracts. One of them stated NWA could not farm out work IF it resulted in layoffs. In other words NWA could farm out on the condition that there would be no layoffs. This makes sense since even though the 747 and DC-10 were farmed out under the IAM, NWA still had all on payroll,about 10,500, and according to the poster, there was ample overtime.

3. You castigate the IAM, but the fact is the IAM at EAL had the "knowledge, skill and integrity" in terms of knowing how to keep it's picket lines intact FOR TWO YEARS and win a strike (EAL died). AT EAL, the IAM worked closely with the other unions (which honored the IAM lines), helped it's membership through hard times ($100 per week, foodbanks, etc.), and worked tirelessly to have Lorenzo and his team ousted (they almost succeeded twice). Is the IAM as good today as it was back then? Probably not. As you said look at US and UA. My point is AMFA HAD NO PLAN. Comparing the way the IAM handled the EAL strike with the way AMFA handled the NW strike, the IAM at EAL wins hands down.

4. If the IAM/NWA members reject NWA's final offer and strike, they will shut NWA down; something AMFA proved it could never do.

 

[robbedagain]

a friend of mine at NWA told me today that the IAMis planning on a strike should the Judge abroggate the contract as well as the AFA and the ALPA. Can someone enlighten on that please without the scabs coming on and saying it wont happen? if the strike does occur, PTO you better get another job and quick! oh wait, forgot you are a spoiled rich scab who knows nothing about fixing airplanes

 

[Dea Certe]

robbedagain,

I heard the same thing and read an article posted on KARE website. I couldn't get the link to post but it seems like the pilots are getting ready to walk should NWA ask the BK court to abrogate their contract.

I think the Executives at NWA may have just overplayed their hand, ala EAL. So very sad.

NWA can't blame the employees for this. It's gonna fall squarely on the shoulders of the hot-shots who counted on fear of the workers.

My prayers go out to the fine employees at NWA. AMFA was ahead of the curve, in my opinion.

Dea

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Its surreal and hilarious to watch the AMFA goons try to spin their unemployment and failure of a strike as a victory.

Guess what guys? You have been replaced, and NW doesn't give a crap about you, and any airline worth its salt should look at who you are before making a hiring decision.

Unions are so yesterday.

 

[NWA/AMT]

Guess what guys? You have been replaced, and NW doesn't give a crap about you...

Guess what? We replaced them as well, most of us long before the strike, and don't really give a crap about NWA anymore. There's only so many times you can be willing to sacrifice to save the same airline only to see your contribution wasted by successive generations of bad management.

...and any airline worth its salt should look at who you are before making a hiring decision.

Oh, they do indeed. They see two decades of experience, on average, and experience keeping the oldest fleet in the business flying. Of the several hundred people I know from NWA, not one has been turned down for whatever job they applied for.

Unions are so yesterday.

Blah, blah, blah. That's what they said in the 1920's too. Bad management creates unions.

 

[Stratocruiser]

Of course, there are people like you and scabs like PTO,Opus who have no morals at all and would screw your own grandmother for a hamburger just to keep or steal an airline job.

I’m not going to justify your eighth-grade mudslinging with a response, except to say that it’s all the proof I need of you and your kind’s childish view of reality.

 

[Hackman]

1. PTO stated that there were former union members at NW who are now scabbing; be they former IAM supporters, former AMFA supporters, or former TWU members laid off from AA. Just because I agree with him on a fact does not mean I support his or anyone else crossing a picket line.

2.While I do not know the details of contracts at other airlines, I get a pretty good idea of what those contracts were like from reading the posts on other websites of people who were covered under those contracts. One of them stated NWA could not farm out work IF it resulted in layoffs. In other words NWA could farm out on the condition that there would be no layoffs. This makes sense since even though the 747 and DC-10 were farmed out under the IAM, NWA still had all on payroll,about 10,500, and according to the poster, there was ample overtime.

3. You castigate the IAM, but the fact is the IAM at EAL had the "knowledge, skill and integrity" in terms of knowing how to keep it's picket lines intact FOR TWO YEARS and win a strike (EAL died). AT EAL, the IAM worked closely with the other unions (which honored the IAM lines), helped it's membership through hard times ($100 per week, foodbanks, etc.), and worked tirelessly to have Lorenzo and his team ousted (they almost succeeded twice). Is the IAM as good today as it was back then? Probably not. As you said look at US and UA. My point is AMFA HAD NO PLAN. Comparing the way the IAM handled the EAL strike with the way AMFA handled the NW strike, the IAM at EAL wins hands down.

4. If the IAM/NWA members reject NWA's final offer and strike, they will shut NWA down; something AMFA proved it could never do.

1) I would venture to say that 80% of the former union member scabs are ex-IAM believers. They cried about not getting to vote on any of the crap Scab Air presented to AMFA, which all of the offers presented were not worthy of a vote. They use this a reason they had to scab. Now, the ones that didn't scab got to vote on the worst offer by far, and it was defeated by 57%, and still the IAM believers deride AMFA. Most of the strikers have planned on leaving Scab Air for good long ago, all my personal NWA friends have said good riddance to Scab Air.

2) The other websites? Who, the AMFAnuts IAM sponsered and highly sensored BB? The IAM brought back one of the worst concessionary contracts at NWA before they were replaced, during one of the most profitable times in airline history, and its the main reason they were replaced. This would have been an even worse story if the IAM had been at NWA during the horrible past few years, they would never have fought as AMFA has. Need proof? Again, look at US Air and UAL, they bent over time and again. Case closed....

3) The IAM did honorably stand at EAL, but have not since then. The IAM has wrongly stated AMFA never honored any IAM picket line, this is a lie. AMFA honored the IAM picket line at Ozark in '84, I have read the letter from the IAM to the Delle, thanking him for his support. I don't have a copy, but I am sure I can find one. In addition, the afl-cio has done nothing since then but posture and whine about how the labor movement needs strengthening with more organizing, but what have they done in the fight against corporate greed? NOTHING... ALL TALK, NO ACTION, I GOT MINE IN MY BUSINESS UNION. AMFA attempted several times to enlist the other unions support at NWA, but was rejected because the AMFA has taken dues monies away, which is all the industrial unions care about. If the IAM, TWU, and IBT would have represented the members instead of fighting pleads for change at every turn, there would be no organizing drives for AMFA.

4) Now its time for the other unions to pay the pipper at NWA, and pay they will. Will the IAM strike when they get violated again at NWA in January? I highly doubt it, as they will be replaced easier then the mechanics. Will the ALPA strike when its their turn in the fire? Yeah right. Will the PFAA? They had a vote, but the members voted no, too bad for them.
AMFA did the only the only honorable action they could have, strike. Win or lose (and this isn't over yet), they fought draconian Scab Air management. As this plays out at Scab Air, it might be the end of the airline looking at the situation they are in now.