Want afa-CWA representation? Just wait for the afa-CWA Raid
- Thread starter aislehopper
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http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?Content...ce-debe1f8b5260
Two last-minute amendments added to H.R. 2881 during final committee voting in June -- calling for the FAA and controllers to return to the bargaining table in contract talks, and a shifting in labor rules governing local businesses in forming unions -- spelled trouble for White House approval of the House bill early on.
Little was said Wednesday about such bureaucratic minutiae, however... as the OMB chose instead to focus on the hot-button issue of flight delays.
bummer, still caught up in politics!!!
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"Beauty",
For reasons that I won't go into.........You(on your best day) COULD'NT HOLD A CANDLE TO ..FLY !!!!
She(like a few of the other VETERAN F/A's on here)(Young at heart, yet SEASONED well with experience) has "her" finger on the Pulse of this Industry better than you could EVER Imagine !!!!
The AFA will not raid another AFL-CIO union. But since the APFA is not...the same can not be said!
I know many of the Delta Organizer...I assure you it is a huge effort from with in the Delta FA Ranks. The numbers seem to lead us to believe it will in fact happen this time!
donttouchthebeauty
Veteran
- Jan 11, 2006
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NHBB, never underestimate, I don't claim to know everything, but if the ignorance that FLY has portrayed, is what you call SEASONED and VETERAN, then you can have it!!!! Also seasoned and a veteran, doesn't mean knowledgeable =) ..... I have had a seasoned steak by a knowledgeable chef that tasted like SH*T!!!! Kinda like the aftertaste that I get in my mouth after reading this board, if you for one second think FLY is knowledgeable on this topic then that is your opinion, and I respect that; I think its funny, but I respect it...
Fly,
You really impress me with your solid-fact based arguments. I know we have not always agreed, but I can tell you are somebody who "gets it."
I am very "pro-union," but I am also very "pro-MEMBER." Membership dollars should go to representing the interests of the members, and not go to satisfy the cravings of an egomaniacal union leader who cannot take no for an answer.
One of the major reasons unions organize the unorganized is to ensure that industry wages are not pulled down by an employer that does not have to deal with a union. Deterioration in "industry standard" ultimately makes it harder for unionized groups to secure increases in wages and other forms of compensation.
In this case, Delta DOES NOT, and never has, pulled down industry standard, and, for many years, actually SET industry standard. Of course, we know that Delta management does not do this out of the goodness of their hearts, but rather, to ensure that its workers remain reasonably happy and union-free.
The carriers which have pulled down industry standard are, for the most part, the Jetblues, Spirits, Virgin Americas, and the other low cost outfits, which are truly the scourge of the industry, relying on an unofficial revolving door employment policy where nobody stays more than a few years because of the low pay.
You are correct. AFA would not have gotten the Delta flight attendants anything in BK that they have not already gotten. They certainly didn't in the case of UA, US and NW. Delta is NOT the one that set an industry low in compensation amongst the majors.
If giving full seniority to an acquired/merged carrier's employees is the barometer of a true unionist, and if Pat Friend considers herself a true unionist, then she should have no problem extending full seniority to Delta flight attendants in the event of a merger, even if they are not already represented by AFA.
I have to laugh at the constant references the AFA cheerleaders make regarding AFL-CIO affiliation.
The Pre-1983 Continental pilots were AFL-CIO.
The Pre-1989 Eastern flight attendants, pilots and mechanics were AFL-CIO.
How did THAT work out for them?
donttouchthebeauty
Veteran
- Jan 11, 2006
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If you weren't so pathetic, you would be entertaining.
Oh, poor little StrAAight is at it again with the slurs and compliments. Once again what did you get outside of BK?? Thats what i thought?? LOL - YOU are entertaining my little one, time will tell.
NYCDelta
Senior
Wow! Where do I begin?
First off, we did approach AFA. It is simply too expensive to start our own in-house union. While they have their faults-they are really the only game in town for us right now.
I do not subscribe to the theory that "the threat of a union is better than having one". After 14 years with Delta, I am just tired of everything changing DAILY on a whim of a new CEO, new SVP of In-Flight, or anyone else who comes through the management revolving door. I'm tired of hearing "trust us" from someone who is gone a year later. Pay, staffing, benefits, a reserve program that usurps seniority, the list goes on.
I have been a supervisor in the past, and I was appalled to hear how much money (millions of dollars) Delta gives outside union-busting firms to keep us from organizing and getting a contract.
I'm tired of hearing smart comments from pilots. I had one recently tell me that he hopes we DON'T organize, because there's only "so much pie to go around". Screw you!
Our last vote occurred right after 9/11. During the Anthrax scare. During the "we're too patriotic" to do this to Delta phase. And we still managed to get 1/3 of the F/A's on board. I think MANY will be surprised at the numbers that vote this time.
The times have changed. This industry has changed. I wish, rather than this being an AFA v. APFA tirade, we could all focus on the issues that matter. Regardless of our union, our profession has suffered BIG time. I think it's truly sad that people on here are touting their crappy contracts as something to be proud of. As long as Delta's 14,000 F/A's are non-union, Delta will use it to their advantage, and we'll drag down the "bar" for all other F/A's. We should all be focused on the same thing: solidarity.
I am a proud union member at my "other" job. Nurses seem to stand together much better than F/A's-regardless of which union we belong to.
Lastly, I hope my colleagues make an informed decision before casting their vote. I have many friends who are "anti-union". I respect their decision-as they do mine. I just wish Americans would see that as long as CEO's and executives continue to go unchecked, and look out only for themselves, the middle class is going to see things get tougher and tougher.
First off, we did approach AFA. It is simply too expensive to start our own in-house union. While they have their faults-they are really the only game in town for us right now.
I do not subscribe to the theory that "the threat of a union is better than having one". After 14 years with Delta, I am just tired of everything changing DAILY on a whim of a new CEO, new SVP of In-Flight, or anyone else who comes through the management revolving door. I'm tired of hearing "trust us" from someone who is gone a year later. Pay, staffing, benefits, a reserve program that usurps seniority, the list goes on.
I have been a supervisor in the past, and I was appalled to hear how much money (millions of dollars) Delta gives outside union-busting firms to keep us from organizing and getting a contract.
I'm tired of hearing smart comments from pilots. I had one recently tell me that he hopes we DON'T organize, because there's only "so much pie to go around". Screw you!
Our last vote occurred right after 9/11. During the Anthrax scare. During the "we're too patriotic" to do this to Delta phase. And we still managed to get 1/3 of the F/A's on board. I think MANY will be surprised at the numbers that vote this time.
The times have changed. This industry has changed. I wish, rather than this being an AFA v. APFA tirade, we could all focus on the issues that matter. Regardless of our union, our profession has suffered BIG time. I think it's truly sad that people on here are touting their crappy contracts as something to be proud of. As long as Delta's 14,000 F/A's are non-union, Delta will use it to their advantage, and we'll drag down the "bar" for all other F/A's. We should all be focused on the same thing: solidarity.
I am a proud union member at my "other" job. Nurses seem to stand together much better than F/A's-regardless of which union we belong to.
Lastly, I hope my colleagues make an informed decision before casting their vote. I have many friends who are "anti-union". I respect their decision-as they do mine. I just wish Americans would see that as long as CEO's and executives continue to go unchecked, and look out only for themselves, the middle class is going to see things get tougher and tougher.
Perhaps you should spend less time on here, and more time educating yourself...
Nah, that would require effort. You would rather PRETEND you know something.
What a blowhard.
Pathetic and pitful.
The only ones that turned this into an AFA vs APFA thread are your very own AFA cheerleaders, donttouch and JAMAKE, who both have only a passing acquaintance with reality. Full of venom and disinformation, these two have turned this into the very thing you complain about, unfortunately.
I agree. Our job has taken a BIG hit, moreso than virtually any other career in this country. I can still remember watching the newscasts on that awful day (9/11), and thinking that somehow airline managements would use this calamity as an excuse to "correct" their labor problem.
The only people here touting their "crappy contracts" are the AFA cheerleaders who chose to impose themselves consistently into this debate, the same people who will, no doubt, be screaming the loudest if, for example, Delta and UA were to merge and Delta is given DOH.
Despite our deteriorating working conditions, pay cuts, etc., I believe that AA flight attendants are pretty unified, unlike AFA. We have our differences, but I think most of us are very intent on raising the bar in these negotiations. We have a very strong history of coming together, in solidarity, when things get bad.
As far as the pilot comment is concerned, sad to say but that is their mentality across the board, regardless of airline. They only trot out the old "we're in this together" when it suits them.
I wish you guys at Delta the best of luck, whatever your decision.
Didnt the TWU try to organize Delta? Good thing you didnt get them or you would realize that "the threat of a REAL union is better than having one like the TWU".
Maybe that was a dig meant to motivate you even more. I would believe a lot of them think that way but saying it to you certainly would not convince you that you should stay non-union.
Everyone except the executives has suffered.
Agreed, but as long as you are seperated into several different unions that will never happen.
Nusing was never touted as a glamor job, they tend to have their priorities on solid ground. They dont fall in love with their uniforms or the logo of their employer.
Middle class? You are not middle class. Look at it this way, if Bill Gates represnts the top and the penniless bum represents the bottom where do you think you are? are you closer to being penniless or a multi-billionaire? In order to be in the middle you would have to be worth several million dollars. You are Working Class, you sell your labor in order to provide sustinance.
donttouchthebeauty
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- Jan 11, 2006
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Despite our deteriorating working conditions, pay cuts, etc., I believe that AA flight attendants are pretty unified, unlike AFA. We have our differences, but I think most of us are very intent on raising the bar in these negotiations. We have a very strong history of coming together, in solidarity, when things get bad.
Jealous Jealous Jealous, How unified are you ? Unified enough for a Revote, to change that vote to a yes??? You gave it up, just like you did on the playground and now you are bitter. Get over it, you are the most negative person i have seen, but I love it, you look like such a fool.... If DAL wants to be AFA then so be it, you will be your pathetic little APFA who will once again get you very little if anything in your next round of negotiations, but hey, you will still have that industry leading contract right???
Jealous Jealous Jealous, How unified are you ? Unified enough for a Revote, to change that vote to a yes??? You gave it up, just like you did on the playground and now you are bitter. Get over it, you are the most negative person i have seen, but I love it, you look like such a fool.... If DAL wants to be AFA then so be it, you will be your pathetic little APFA who will once again get you very little if anything in your next round of negotiations, but hey, you will still have that industry leading contract right???
You really do sound like a mental patient. As I've stated before, you don't need to be in a flight attendant uniform; you need to be in a straightjacket.
Get some help.
donttouchthebeauty
Veteran
- Jan 11, 2006
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You really do sound like a mental patient. As I've stated before, you don't need to be in a flight attendant uniform; you need to be in a straightjacket.
Get some help.
Whats wrong, limited blood supply to the tinker?? No new material?? You have been scarred, now recover and move on... One thing for sure, you have a fetish for straightjackets.. Oh wait, did I see you chained up in SF getting spanked and whipped yesterday???... Nothing like a StrAAightjacket for a StrAAightalker... Coincidence, I doubt it...
StrAAight, you need to accept reality and move on... Facts are Facts..- Status
