WARN LETTERS SENT

[Bob Owens]

As far as your comparison to the Dominican republic, it is illogical. They are a sovereign nation, like Cuba, with a different currency. And besides, if an airplane is going from MIA-DFW or MIA-JFK you can't load it in SDQ, HAV, or anywhere else for that matter.

No its not. Those currecies could easily be broken down to a US equivelent(ok exchange rates vary) but for the purpose of comparing work vs compensation its perfectly logical.

The fact is thats costs vary, including labor costs even if the work is the same. Location, whether its a different state, city, county or country has a lot to do with it. Is what a FSC does in the Dominican Republic or Cuba any different than what a FSC does in DFW? Whats illogical is for the company to expect to pay the same for labor in New York as they would in Tulsa, and the only reason why they get away with it is the TWU.

 

[eolesen]

I'm in management and naturally slow to pick up on things, but can someone tell me what the cost of living in NYC vs. TUL or AMFA vs. TWU has to do with the fact that 27 or more aircraft are being parked?

 

[FWAAA]

I'm in management and naturally slow to pick up on things, but can someone tell me what the cost of living in NYC vs. TUL or AMFA vs. TWU has to do with the fact that 27 or more aircraft are being parked?

Easy.

[sarcasm]If the TWU hadn't rolled over so easily three years ago, AA wouldn't be parking any airplanes. Bankrupt airlines never park airplanes. Look at all the recent examples we have: UA, US, DL, NW - how many of them are parking airplanes?[/sarcasm]

 

[767 mechanic]

Sadly, an extended family member of ours based at TUL committed suicide back in 1998, just days after being fired by Ralph Grunhof.

Oklahoma ranks 14th in the US for suicides based on 1999-2003 data, with a frequency of about 14 per 100K residents. The national average is about 10 per 100K.

White males and Native American males are the two most likely gender/race combinations to commit suicide, and Oklahoma's high concentration of both stacks the deck against them statistically. Start throwing unemployment into the mix, and it gets even uglier...

FM the person that you are referring to was his initials JM. If so I new him also. You might be referring to another person. I do know that there was a rash of this on 1C and 1D around that time along with an avionics mechanic/ partime cop that was sent to prison around that time.

 

[Bob Owens]

I'm in management and naturally slow to pick up on things, but can someone tell me what the cost of living in NYC vs. TUL or AMFA vs. TWU has to do with the fact that 27 or more aircraft are being parked?

About as much as suicides in Tulsa.

 

[FWAAA]

About as much as suicides in Tulsa.

Correct.

And those were brought up by one of the primary AMFA organizers there - the one with half a dozen different usernames - what is he now? TWU Informer? :down:

I doubt you'll directly criticize TWU Informer for bringing them up - he's an AMFA organizer, not management.

Suicides are tragic events, but to ride the coffins of the dead and imply that AA management is to blame for those families' horrific losses is just ugly. And not much different from that Sheehan idiot who keeps riding her dead son's coffin in hopes of extending her 15 minutes.

Yes, paycuts suck. But $64k in Tulsa allows one to live large compared to most folks there.

I completely agree that $64k doesn't go very far in NYC. For the life of me I can't understand why anyone in suburban NYC would agree to be paid the same as someone in Tulsa (or Fort Worth, for that matter).

Like you posted earlier: If the marketplace determines wages, then why pay dues? I gotta agree. Looks to me like your dues have bought you nothing during your entire career at AA. They've held you back and propped up the pay of your co-workers. I'd be bitter too, if I were you. Carrying all those OK and TX mechanics on my back for 20+ years.

 

[Richard]

Folks, this is topic is meandering a bit from the original topic. Let's get it back on the topic of the WARN letters.

Feel free to open another thread regarding cost of living vs. wages etc.

Thank you,

Richard
USAviation.com Moderating Team

 

[scorpian]

I'm in management and naturally slow to pick up on things, but can someone tell me what the cost of living in NYC vs. TUL or AMFA vs. TWU has to do with the fact that 27 or more aircraft are being parked?

From what I'm hereing its closer to 60 aircraft.

 

[eolesen]

FM the person that you are referring to was his initials JM. If so I new him also.

Yep. Please check your PM's.

 

[j7915]

AA already had in house overhaul before the TWU came on the property. The TWU did not bring it in,as a matter of fact all the way back on March 9, 1950, just 4 years after they came on the property the TWU included a letter of agreement that allowed for the contracting out of work in the contract.
Since you brought it up how much does a SWA mechanic earn more than his AA counterpart? Isnt it over $6/hr, closer to $10 when you include the cost of benifits, holidays and vacation? Isnt it true that SWA mechanics earn around $20,000 more a year than an AA mechanic with the same time?

Bob, please for once answer the question I have been asking for years: HOW MUCH DOES MY SWA OVERHAUL COUNTERPART MAKE?

 

[TWU informer]

Bob, please for once answer the question I have been asking for years: HOW MUCH DOES MY SWA OVERHAUL COUNTERPART MAKE?

Check page 50 of this document.

AMFA Mechanic Contract
To be sure

BILL QUOTE:

It is very tragic. But as I recall, Informer (then Decision whatever) used this tradgedy as a "cause" for supporting amfa. It seems that he is doing it again. I happened to have known the the man he mentioned at the beginning of this topic. I will probably be put on "probation" for this so forgive me Mr. Moderator, and anyone else I may defend, but Dave, you are a piece of shi* to use a man's pain for your gain. How dare you?

Bill please feel free to prove that I "mentioned" anyone specifically that you might know? You are a common liar.

Also, feel free to prove that I mentioned the recent tragic suicides as a "cause" to support AMFA? You are a common liar.

I guess you have been under your rock again. The AMFA DRIVE IS OVER AT AA.... Get it?

Now back to the topic of WARN letters, it clear from the timing of CFO announcements of more concessions along with grounding of aircraft is the beginning of a request to move job protection dates. If paycuts, loss of paid time off, and out-of-pocket heath cost is not enough to cause suicides, then I bet loss of jobs even after industry leading concessions to save jobs, will surely lead to a few more tragic events in the near future.

But please, Bill, explain to me and everyone here how I am attempting make a "gain" off the recent already taken place tragic suicides? You simply have so mcuh hate in your own heart that you believe your own Bull#### once you think it up. Most professionals call that character flaw a pathological liar. There is help for that also Bill!

 

[Bill]

Bill please feel free to prove that I "mentioned" anyone specifically that you might know? You are a common liar.

Also, feel free to prove that I mentioned the recent tragic suicides as a "cause" to support AMFA? You are a common liar.

I guess you have been under your rock again. The AMFA DRIVE IS OVER AT AA.... Get it?

Now back to the topic of WARN letters, it clear from the timing of CFO announcements of more concessions along with grounding of aircraft is the beginning of a request to move job protection dates. If paycuts, loss of paid time off, and out-of-pocket heath cost is not enough to cause suicides, then I bet loss of jobs even after industry leading concessions to save jobs, will surely lead to a few more tragic events in the near future.

But please, Bill, explain to me and everyone here how I am attempting make a "gain" off the recent already taken place tragic suicides? You simply have so mcuh hate in your own heart that you believe your own Bull#### once you think it up. Most professionals call that character flaw a pathological liar. There is help for that also Bill!

Come on now Informer, stop trying to keep yourself from looking so sleazy. We have all read your posts. You mentioned two suicides under one topic. WHY????????????? The first one you mentioned was on the first page of this topic, post #8........
Sadly enough, another AMT suicide took place in Tulsa last week.

The number of divorces, suicides, and alcohol/drug abuse issues have gone through the roof since the without further ratification concessions by Jim Little and the great TWU were signed and implemented.

This man I KNEW!!!!!!!!!

Then you went on to mention another one, which if you would get your facts right DIDN'T EVEN HAPPEN......
Found out today of a second Tulsa AMT suicide within the last 2 weeks.

We need help here folks!

So, please tell us Informer, what was the intent other than to place blame? We all know your M.O. If the amfa posts weren't so far back I would look the posts up about where you mentioned suicide and TWU/concessoins/Jim Little in the same post. WOW, that post you just made (see above) is eerily similar. Imagine that!!!!!

I do believe the pathological liar here is you. Like I said, your credibility is shot. You spew too much shi* to be taken seriously. But this suicide stuff brought you to a new low. Yeh I know, I didn't think it was possible. BRAVO!!!!!!
:down: :down: :down:

 

[FWAAA]

Come on now Informer, stop trying to keep yourself from looking so sleazy. We have all read your posts. You mentioned two suicides under one topic. WHY????????????? The first one you mentioned was on the first page of this topic, post #8........
Sadly enough, another AMT suicide took place in Tulsa last week.

No kidding. With such a classless individual leading the organizing effort at TULE, is it any wonder the drive was a failure?

Ya know, the Democrats couldn't win the 2004 elections despite an unpopular war waged by an unpopular President widely assumed to be less intelligent than your average bear.

And at AA, AMFA couldn't throw out the TWU despite almost universal admission that it is The Worthless Union.

In both cases, blame is probably best assigned to the leaders of the failed challengers.

Riding the coffins of the dead is a very dangerous exercise.

May their families find solace in such a painful time.

 

[eolesen]

Far be if from be to support Dave, given all the crap he's dealt me over the past five years, but I only found a few post in the archives which mentioned suicides:

http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...post&pid=364406

$300/share might indeed recover the concessions lost. But what about the divorces, suicides, and other forms of mental anquish the sell out also caused? Even $300/share will not begin full recovery.

http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...ndpost&p=174914

Truth is TWU Member Divorce, Suicide, Perosonal Bankruptcy, and Mental Health problems are currently at all time highs. Who is responslible for that Kevin? It sure as hell is NOT AMFA.

http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...indpost&p=71016

What is the remedy for those that have committed suicide while facing TWU concession?

http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...indpost&p=68765

We in Tulsa are just as screwed as others. We have had several suicides over the last month, workers are being harrassed by collection agencies, I know many that are having their checks garnished for financial judgements against them, and personal bankruptcy filings are also on the rise.

http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...indpost&p=67987

MAD? darn right I'm mad, your so-called union is destroying our livelyhood and our profession, we have co-workers committing suicide, we have garnishment of wages, we have personal bankruptcy filings amongst our friends at work, and you know what pal?

Then again, he's had several alter-ego's or incarnations, so there might be more which predate the few identities I remember.

 

[local 12 proud]

Riding the coffins of the dead is a very dangerous exercise.

...and what do you call the TWU parading a coffin around in Tulsa on a flat bed trailer, attempting to Sabotage a debate between AMFA and the Sheep?

with a U.S.A. Flag attached to the coffin nonetheless.

somebody with those pics please repost!!!!!!