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Watch the July 14th, 2012 - AMFA Informational Meeting

Similin' Lee doesn't grasp the concept of class and craft. Needs to spend some time re-reading the definition and how it is applied. The M&R class and craft includes janitors, building cleaners, aircraft washers, parts washers, facilities mechanics, auto mechanics, and painters to name a few. Therefore his story about having a non-A&P licensed group within our A&P craft is false unless he plans on bargaining away those jobs. What will AMFA do if the government loosens up the 145 licensing again and allows more MROs to emerge and in-house M&E groups decide to either drop the license pay for AMTs in overhaul? Will those AMTs become less worthy?

And ALPA didn't cast off (or whatever Seham was insinuating) the FA's. The FA's left ALPA because they felt they weren't be represented well by them kind of like the AA FA's did when they became unhappy with the TWU. AA mechanics did similar with ALMA in the late 1940s and joined the Stores organizing drive with the TWU. He needs to brush up on his history.

Seham's revisionist history of the labor movement in the post-WWII era that industrial unions were nothing more than "dues collection agencies" is false. Industrial unions flexed their muscle by withholding services from an airline by not from just one area like M&E they utilized the collective pressure of a larger group. AMFA tried the withholding services at NWA and that worked awesome. They lost everything so now they do what? Either extend contracts or agree to interest based arbitration.

So the only way we can get a true A&P only union is to allow the outsourcing of all non-A&P required jobs at AA. But based on what has happened over the past ten years at AMFA represented airlines, that IS the AMFA strategy. Growing the wages of a few at the expense of many.

Got it now. Thanks for the informative video regarding AMFA's hidden agenda. Romney and his Bain Capital buddies must be backing AMFA.

Overspeed Are you drunk or something?

Therefore his story about having a non-A&P licensed group within our A&P craft is false unless he plans on bargaining away those jobs

Read again what you posted? Are you speaking in tongues and we have to wait for translation? Lee Seham knows more Craft or Class designation than you will ever know, and AMFA does support the non-A&P's in this industry.

Why do you idiots continue to drive wedges in the barganing unit groups as a means of survival? You will weaken your union to zero unity in an attempt to keep collecting our dues. Totally Worthless Union is the rgiht name for the TWU.

You are all over the place first comparing pre-deregulation times, and then using psot-deregulation as examples. You are nothing more than a TWU zealot that cannot even make an intelligent and worthwhile post. You are os ate with fear about changing unions that you are no longer able to comprehend a video, and cannot post an understandable opinion about it after you watch it.

NOBODY is going to get an A&P only union, and to my knowledge anyone with a decent understanding of AMFA and the NMB definition of craft or class is even seeking one. That is somply a tool that you sare trying to use to drive a wedge amongst the membership for survival.

Do you have the balls to write feces like this and put your name on it?
 
Yep. All those thousands of overhaul AMTs at UA, AS, and NW were saying, "I will vote no on any agreement that does not get me laid off so the Line AMTs can get more."

And you just voted yes to save yourself at the expense of thousands of other workers jobs. And to top that you get last in the industry in pay and benefits in exchange. You must be next in line for James C Little's job.
 
Overspeed Are you drunk or something?



Read again what you posted? Are you speaking in tongues and we have to wait for translation? Lee Seham knows more Craft or Class designation than you will ever know, and AMFA does support the non-A&P's in this industry.

Why do you idiots continue to drive wedges in the barganing unit groups as a means of survival? You will weaken your union to zero unity in an attempt to keep collecting our dues. Totally Worthless Union is the rgiht name for the TWU.

You are all over the place first comparing pre-deregulation times, and then using psot-deregulation as examples. You are nothing more than a TWU zealot that cannot even make an intelligent and worthwhile post. You are os ate with fear about changing unions that you are no longer able to comprehend a video, and cannot post an understandable opinion about it after you watch it.

NOBODY is going to get an A&P only union, and to my knowledge anyone with a decent understanding of AMFA and the NMB definition of craft or class is even seeking one. That is somply a tool that you sare trying to use to drive a wedge amongst the membership for survival.

Do you have the balls to write feces like this and put your name on it?

Back to the my lawyer is smarter than your lawyer argument Informer? What makes AMFA's Seham more credible upon Union issues than TWU's Sharon Levine had to offer about the AA bankruptcy. From the comments he made in your video he just said "hey, you tell us what to do" where TWU's Levine gave a very detailed presentation about bankruptcy and its effects. What makes AMFA's Seham so much better Informer? Oh I know, he hung his hat on an arbitration decision where AMFA saved the day over a teeshirt. Wow, Informer :blink:
 
Back to the my lawyer is smarter than your lawyer argument Informer? What makes AMFA's Seham more credible upon Union issues than TWU's Sharon Levine had to offer about the AA bankruptcy. From the comments he made in your video he just said "hey, you tell us what to do" where TWU's Levine gave a very detailed presentation about bankruptcy and its effects. What makes AMFA's Seham so much better Informer?

Are you guys all educated in the same incompetent school?

I never mentioned Levine, never compared lawyers, I simply said Seham knows more than Overspeed.

You guys are so upset about someone collecting the cards to obtain the memberships will that you place words in everyone's mouth's on a continuous basis.

What makes Seham better than what? You and Overspeed? His education and experience. Better than Sharon Levine? I never said anything about lawyers comparisons, you did. All I know is that with a democratic Union if the lawyer hired doesn't cut it, then they are fired.

Just to back your claim up, copy and paste anywhere that shows I compared lawyers, claimed one lawyer was better another, or anything of that sort.
Because I have no idea where your mind and opinion became polluted with the garbage. Please show me.

If you cannot, then apologize for being a dumbass and making false and grotesque claims.
 
Are you guys all educated in the same incompetent school?

I never mentioned Levine, never compared lawyers, I simply said Seham knows more than Overspeed.

You guys are so upset about someone collecting the cards to obtain the memberships will that you place words in everyone's mouth's on a continuous basis.

What makes Seham better than what? You and Overspeed? His education and experience. Better than Sharon Levine? I never said anything about lawyers comparisons, you did. All I know is that with a democratic Union if the lawyer hired doesn't cut it, then they are fired.

Just to back your claim up, copy and paste anywhere that shows I compared lawyers, claimed one lawyer was better another, or anything of that sort.
Because I have no idea where your mind and opinion became polluted with the garbage. Please show me.

If you cannot, then apologize for being a dumbass and making false and grotesque claims.

Hey, just making the point that you are relying on his comments on your video to support your movement or he wouldn't be speaking to those who attended. We obtained a lawyer you chose not to believe through the Section 1113 bankruptcy process, so why do you believe this one is so much better? He was there for a reason and you know it....
 
Hey, just making the point that you are relying on his comments on your video to support your movement or he wouldn't be speaking to those who attended. We obtained a lawyer you chose not to believe through the Section 1113 bankruptcy process, so why do you believe this one is so much better? He was there for a reason and you know it....

I am not so narrow minded that my support for AMFA is about this bankruptcy. You know this has to be fact or I wouldn't have been placed in bad standing for dual unionism over 10 years ago. All the Bankruptcy has done is exposed the TWU lie that this union is better than the other unions. Every single item used to attack AMFA 10 years ago is now happening on AA property, every single one.

Lee Seham is not only an attorney he is a friend of mine. He was there to speak about the NBM definition of craft or class, the process to replace the TWU, the experience that he had with the events of NWA and UAL, and he answered questions regarding the 1113 process since that was current on everyone's mind.

I support AMFA because the industrial unions have been representing the majority of the craft or class for over 60 years. As a result, in my opinion, this profession has not done as well as we could have in that time frame. I believe that Union Representation Consolidation is in our best interest, and I believe a craft union is the best type of representation to consolidate into. Since deregulation the industrial unions have kept us divided into different unions, we are being conquered as a result. One unions concessions are being used against the next unions negotiators and the cycle of destruction or race to the bottom continues. While the industry consolidates, we sit and fight with each other, to insure we remain divided into seperate industrial unions and keep taking the beating that this division leads us to endure. We must all get into one union and stop being divided and conquered. I so that is my belief, and then once that belief becomes the foundation then "A" union must be chosen to support that idea. In my opinion, that choice is AMFA, not only because AMFA is the only craft specific union, because we in this profession would be the majority and the resources, the focus of attention, basically every thought of every second of everday will be about this craft. In contrast, the industrial unions have other work groups to focus on, they spend all of their time in a failed belief system that political campaign financing is the answer to our problems. That idea has been failing now for how many years?

Those like yourself, that make this personal, fail to see that we are failing and that change is needed, each of your type will continue to have a very narrow view of the overall problem. You want to take one person, one thing, or one idea, and twist into proof that AMFA has failed. Until you and every other member of the industry craft or class get into ONE UNION, and then fail, then you will never convince me or any other AMFA supporter that AMFA has failed.

Why you might ask? Because the AMFA idea has not proven a failure like your choice has, because narrow minded fear mongers such as your self resist the courage to try the idea. The idea is to get all mechanics into ONE industry craft union. But you and others insist and defend staying in not only seperate industrial unions, but unions that you are not even the majority and ruling group. The resources, the passion, the lasar focus about this craft is not there. The industrial union focus is on strenght in numbers and has been the way of the profession for over 60 years. That might have worked in a regulated industry but has failed miserably since deregulation was enacted in 1978.

You are more like a battered spouse than a professional skilled worker with a desire to succeed. You have a negatvie view of change, yet you are getting the piss beat out of you on a regular basis by your current relationship with industrial union representation.

You are entitled to your beliefs, but based on what I see and hear from you, your idea is to jsut keep the and defend that status quo, to resist change, to keeping the piss beat out of us, and anyone who thinks differently than that, well you will attack them perosnally and speak in a negative way of about their opinions. If I am wrong about then I invite to post your solutions and what should be done to reverse this trend, both short term and long term planning on what direction we should go for a better way of life and union representation. My guess is, that your only plan and solution is to attack anyone else's plan or solution and defend your current union using personal attacks. That my friend is nothing more than insanity.
 
I am not so narrow minded that my support for AMFA is about this bankruptcy. You know this has to be fact or I wouldn't have been placed in bad standing for dual unionism over 10 years ago. All the Bankruptcy has done is exposed the TWU lie that this union is better than the other unions. Every single item used to attack AMFA 10 years ago is now happening on AA property, every single one.

Lee Seham is not only an attorney he is a friend of mine. He was there to speak about the NBM definition of craft or class, the process to replace the TWU, the experience that he had with the events of NWA and UAL, and he answered questions regarding the 1113 process since that was current on everyone's mind.

I support AMFA because the industrial unions have been representing the majority of the craft or class for over 60 years. As a result, in my opinion, this profession has not done as well as we could have in that time frame. I believe that Union Representation Consolidation is in our best interest, and I believe a craft union is the best type of representation to consolidate into. Since deregulation the industrial unions have kept us divided into different unions, we are being conquered as a result. One unions concessions are being used against the next unions negotiators and the cycle of destruction or race to the bottom continues. While the industry consolidates, we sit and fight with each other, to insure we remain divided into seperate industrial unions and keep taking the beating that this division leads us to endure. We must all get into one union and stop being divided and conquered. I so that is my belief, and then once that belief becomes the foundation then "A" union must be chosen to support that idea. In my opinion, that choice is AMFA, not only because it the only craft specific union, because we would be the majority and the resources, the focus of attention, basically every thought of every second of everday will be about this craft. In contrast, the industrial unions have other work groups to focus on, they spend all of their time in a failed belief system that political campaign financing is the answer to our problems. That idea has been failing now for how many years?

Those like yourself, that make this personal, fail to see that we are failing and that change is needed, each of your type will continue to have a very narrow view of the overall problem. You want to take one person, one thing, or one idea, and twist into proof that AMFA has failed. Until you and every other member of the industry craft or class get into ONE UNION, and then fail, then you will never convince me or any other AMFA supporter that AMFA has failed.

Why you might ask? AMFA has the not failed, because narrow minded fear mongers such as your self resist the courage to try the idea. The idea is to get all mechanics into ONE industry craft union. But you and others insist and defend staying in not seperate industrial unions, but unions that you are not even the majority and ruling group. The resources, the passion, the lasar focus about this craft is not there. The industrial union focus is on strenght in numbers and has been the way of the profession for over 60 years. That might have worked in a regulated industry but has failed miserably since deregulation was enacted in 1978.

You are more like a battered spouse than a professional skilled worker with a desire to succeed. You have a negatvie view of change, yet you are getting the piss beat out of you on a regular basis by your current relationship with industrial union representation.

Nice try, but not true Informer. WE will keep our Overhaul, we will keep our pensions through a freeze that have continued to accrue over the past 8 years and not turned over to the PBGC. These are two items that make a huge difference as to what had happened in the past with the AMFA....
 
Nice try, but not true Informer. WE will keep our Overhaul, we will keep our pensions through a freeze that have continued to accrue over the past 8 years and not turned over to the PBGC. These are two items that make a huge difference as to what had happened in the past with the AMFA....

You are losing your overhaul not keeping it. What do you think 35% outsource and "peak demand" outsource with new aircraft coming means?

And your pension was frozen not terminated because the director of the PBGC's strategy to file leans on AA's property worked. You might also note that I said "TWU attacks used 10 years ago". And you want to twist in more recent events and call me a liar? You are not paying attention to detail, you are an emotional rapid fire agent against change.

You can lie and credit the TWU with the pension status if you like, but most readers here, and most AMT's keep up with the facts and know a big fat lie when they hear one. I bet you even believe the TWU landed the rover on Mars recently too?

A US Airways merger could happen next week and within 36 months the Tulsa base could be gone. But hey, keep bashinig, every other tool you have used has happened to the TWU why stop now?
 
You are losing your overhaul not keeping it. What do you think 35% outsource and "peak demand" outsource with new aircraft coming means?

And your pension was frozen not terminated because the director of the PBGC's strategy to file leans on AA's property worked.

You can lie and credit the TWU with that if like, but most readers here, and most AMT's keep up with the facts and know a big fat lie when they hear one.
A US Airways merger could happen next week and within 36 months the Tulsa base could be gone. But hey, keep bashinig, every other tool you have used has happened to the TWU why stop now?

So a 15% increase in outsourcing is the end of the Overhaul world Informer? I think not. The PBGC director may have contributed some help with obtaining the freeze but he had absolutely nothing to do with the 8 year accrue to your pension. So now a USAir/ AA merger is gonna wipe us out? Wow, Informer....
 
So a 15% increase in outsourcing is the end of the Overhaul world Informer? I think not. The PBGC director may have contributed some help with obtaining the freeze but he had absolutely nothing to do with the 8 year accrue to your pension. So now a USAir/ AA merger is gonna wipe us out? Wow, Informer....

Again, a 15% increase and change of language, combined with new aircraft, and other work rules without a job security clause is indeed going to lead to the decimation of overhaul in the next 3-4 years. Even the company letter on early out and stand instead shows several round of RIF's coming and spells out the reasons for each round which backs up my opinion here. You can deny that all you want, you can bury your head against change all you want, you can keep defending the undefendable. But your opinions, credibility, and knowledge has already been relegated to the cellar.

Are you going answer the invitation to give us your solutions instead of negative bashing?
 
Again, a 15% increase and change of language, combined with new aircraft, and other work rules without a job security clause is indeed going to lead to the decimation of overhaul in the next 3-4 years. Even the company letter on early out and stand instead shows several round of RIF's coming and spells out the reasons for each round which backs up my opinion here. You can deny that all you want, you can bury your head against change all you want, you can keep defending the undefendable. But your opinions, credibility, and knowledge has already been relegated to the cellar.

Are you going answer the invitation to give us your solutions instead of negative bashing?

Wow listen to you go, so it is you that is smarter than a lawyer! Wow, Informer
 
Yep. All those thousands of overhaul AMTs at UA, AS, and NW were saying, "I will vote no on any agreement that does not get me laid off so the Line AMTs can get more."

Here we go again blaming the AMFA for outsourcing o/h at UAL. I called you on this lie before and I guess I'm going to have to do it again. Do you have another trailor with a coffin and headstones so that you can lie to the membership again. You know that the iam was the union that did that. Remember when I told you what to google so that you can find the answer to that so that you would not lie to the members,but in true twu form you try and perpetuate the lie so that you can confuse the members. This has been proven to you many times,but you continue to lie to everybody on this board. At NW the iam already outsourced the DC-10 and 747 before Amfa came on the property,but you blame the AMFA for that also. The twu and other industrial unions blame the AMFA for the job loses at other airlines when it was the industrial unions that put the language in the contract to do so. So according to history when the AMFA takes over at AA they will get blamed for all of the job being outsourced. The only part of this that is remotely true is Alaska at Oak and that was 3 lines of O/H having approximatly 340 jobs. How many lines of O/H were there in KC and how many mechanic and related were there when the twu took over the misrepresentation of those people. Lets not forget about AFW who will be losing at least four full time lines and 1 or 2 lines of drop ins and other work at any one time. Not to mention the approximatly 1300 mechanic and related work force. The twu has and is giving up more O/H than the AMFA has given up and this does not even touch on what is going to happen to Tulsa in the future. The Tulsa reps that were selling this piece of crap contract will have to answer to the members when the layoffs start to happen in T-Town. Do you think that Bobby Gless knew anything about what was going to happen to AFW and Tulsa when he signed the letter of agreement to make DWH a maintenance base. My guess is he did. So why don't you talk this over with your buddy Van De Loo before you guys post again.
 
Doesn't seem to be a very popular thread. That is all I can say about why you have seen limited interest to its content. Maybe you should try the "Alternate MacTiernan Plan" again? You know, AMP....

Dobby,

Popular? Closing in on 1000 views seems like a good thread to me. I am sure that several of those views are from people such as yourself who can not create some sort of diversion by mixing or combining various standard twu ingredients like lies and half truths.

Go AMFA!

All you're able to add to this thread is a sarcastic comment from behind an alias about my support for a craft, democratic, accountable union for our Craft & Class.
 
I tried to watch it but got bored. Could'nt fast forward through any of the same O'l song and dance to get to anything interesting. Did anyone in the room ask what AMFA would have done if they were faced with the same scenario as the TWU and the AA bankruptcy? I would like to hear what the comment may have been. Seems Del Femme some years back told the United guys they didn't want to go the road of abrogation when AMFA had their short stint with those folks. That response for me would have kept my interest but like I said I got bored.... -_-

Dobby,

"ask what AMFA would have done if they were faced with the same scenario as the twu and the bankruptcy?"

What do you not understand about the AMFA Constitution? AMFA National isn't going to make decisions like our appointed international offciers do for us here at AA. WE, those in our Craft & Class, will make decisions about what we want for our future. That is the answer to your question. But it seems as if you can not comprehend written constitutions if it doesn't include some form of control over those who the constitution is for.

Go AMFA!
 

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