West pilot PBS

[Phoenix]

Spew your venom, sealbeater. No one cares whether you like it or not. I simply laid out the facts and we have had PBS the better part of a decade. I believe you would have complained even after winning the recent mega millions lottery.

You seem a bit testy/reactionary and that factors into the objectivity of your explanation of PBS. A shame really.

 

[flyingskier]

Truly sad. FAs using paper votes. Line bidding. 90s era work actions.

Pathetic.

It's time for a big flush out east. The oldness must go.

Again, flexibility is bad? PBS, maybe. Combine it with SAP and the bid sheet and we could have something really great. Definitely better than what you have now. Another consideration is moving to straight PBS is a jobs issue. If I was a third lister I would not be excited about PBS.

Skier

 

[Phoenix]

PBS is a fact for both the FAs and Pilot's.

Relax, once you figure it out you won't look back.

Yep!

Just like the call sign, Catcus. Now that we use it, its a big hit (for the braindead). Every ground controller refers to the "USAir jet" when sequencing on the taxiways.

 

[Move2CLT]

Again, flexibility is bad? PBS, maybe. Combine it with SAP and the bid sheet and we could have something really great. Definitely better than what you have now. Another consideration is moving to straight PBS is a jobs issue. If I was a third lister I would not be excited about PBS.

Skier

That job issue is BS made up by your pilots. We implemented PBS here with no loss of jobs.

Your work rules determine the number of pilots, not PBS.

So if you want to keep jobs, make sure your union negs good work rules.

Union? Oh ####...

 

[Move2CLT]

Just like the call sign, Catcus. Now that we use it, its a big hit (for the braindead). Every ground controller refers to the "USAir jet" when sequencing on the taxiways.

Oh the drama.

They use Cactus PHX so calm down.

You use it too and you're still alive.

 

[crazystnic]

Again, flexibility is bad? PBS, maybe. Combine it with SAP and the bid sheet and we could have something really great. Definitely better than what you have now. Another consideration is moving to straight PBS is a jobs issue. If I was a third lister I would not be excited about PBS.

Skier

PBS is a jobs killer.. any wonder why the FA agreement said that they would have a no furlough clause due to changes and PBS>

NO TO PBS

unless as skier says they keep the bid sheet and SAP with it.

 

[BoeingBoy]

PBS is a jobs killer..

The easties keep saying that but no one has explained how having the same total amount or more of credit hours (which depends on rigs, not scheduling) can result in the need for fewer pilots.

Jim

 

[flyingskier]

The easties keep saying that but no one has explained how having the same total amount or more of credit hours (which depends on rigs, not scheduling) can result in the need for fewer pilots.

Jim

Less flexibility equals less reserves equals less jobs. Its an easy concept to grasp.

Skier

 

[luvn737s]

Another consideration is moving to straight PBS is a jobs issue. If I was a third lister I would not be excited about PBS.

Skier

Plenty of airlines have PBS. Can you cite the number of furloughs directly attributable to the implementation of PBS alone? The 3rd listers should love that the airline is doing something that will make their employer more profitable and enhance their job security. The only ones who seem to have a huge problem with PBS are those who can't wrap their wrinkled old minds around how it works.

Don't waste your time fighting the PBS battle, when you should be demanding a better contract.

 

[flyingskier]

Plenty of airlines have PBS. Can you cite the number of furloughs directly attributable to the implementation of PBS alone? The 3rd listers should love that the airline is doing something that will make their employer more profitable and enhance their job security. The only ones who seem to have a huge problem with PBS are those who can't wrap their wrinkled old minds around how it works.

Don't waste your time fighting the PBS battle, when you should be demanding a better contract.

Again, what we have is so much better from a flexibility stand point then what you have. To go to straight PBS that you have now would be a huge concession on our part. Less flexibility equals less jobs. When you went to PBS, your previous system did not have anywhere close to the flexibility we have on the East. We have the best in the industry.

One of the biggest complaints I have heard from FA's about their new contract proposal were the changes made to the scheduling section.

Combine the two, PBS plus SAP and the bid sheet and we could have something really great and provide the company with a better system, PBS vs Line Building and still keep the flexibility of SAP and the bid sheet. Win, Win.

If anything, it seems that the west needs to be educated on how SAP and the bid sheet works for the East.

Skier

 

[luvn737s]

So you answer is "None". Is that your final answer?

There is no proof that it kills any jobs. The FA's know as little about it as you do. Why not listen to the folks with 10+ years experience with PBS? PBS is superior to line bidding and no one is going to accept unnecessary concessions in order to keep a worn out insecurity blanket.

Ignorance is not a mantle to be worn with pride.

 

[flyingskier]

Ignorance is not a mantle to be worn with pride.

Kettle meet Pot! 🙂

Skier

 

[luvn737s]

Come on now, you can do it. Show us the proof instead of relying on that tired old USAPA standby, fear mongering. Kiss the bidsheet goodbye.

That reminds me of a good old torch song, the kind you east folks must love (and built your whole life's outlook on).

Goodbye Girl - Bread


'Cause baby, goodbye doesn't mean forever
Let me tell you
Goodbye doesn't mean
We'll never be together again
If you wake up and I'm not there
I won't be long away
'Cause the things you do my goodbye girl
Will bring me back to you


I know you've been taken
Afraid to hurt again
You fight the love you feel for me
Instead of givin' in
But I can wait forever
Helping you to see
That I was meant for you and you for me


So remember, goodbye doesn't mean forever
Let me tell you goodbye
Doesn't mean we'll never be together again
Though we may be so far apart
You still will have my heart
So forget your past my goodbye girl
'Cause now you're home at last

 

[Move2CLT]

Again, what we have is so much better from a flexibility stand point then what you have. To go to straight PBS that you have now would be a huge concession on our part. Less flexibility equals less jobs. When you went to PBS, your previous system did not have anywhere close to the flexibility we have on the East. We have the best in the industry.

One of the biggest complaints I have heard from FA's about their new contract proposal were the changes made to the scheduling section.

Combine the two, PBS plus SAP and the bid sheet and we could have something really great and provide the company with a better system, PBS vs Line Building and still keep the flexibility of SAP and the bid sheet. Win, Win.

If anything, it seems that the west needs to be educated on how SAP and the bid sheet works for the East.

Skier

Quite obvious you didn't read Chip's post. We would have something BETTER than SAP.

PBS would get you your desired line right off the bat most of the time making SAP moot. But if you did need to adjust, the crew tracking software would allow you to drop down or trade out.

And as for your less reserve nonsense, once again, that's a contract issue and not PBS. If the contract we voted in makes us more productive per piot, than yes, we'd need less. So let's hope our NAC is on the ball.

NAC? On the ball? Oh ####.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Less flexibility equals less reserves equals less jobs. Its an easy concept to grasp.

No, what's easy to grasp is that X amount of flying takes Y amount of pilots and how you bid monthly schedules doesn't change that. If trips are going to unexpectedly become open (sick, accident, whatever) they're going to become open no matter how you bid monthly schedules so Z reserves are needed to cover that. Meanwhile, not having to have that chunk of open time to prime the schedule adjustment pump every month means lines for some who would be reserves under the current east system. More lineholders, fewer reserves, but the same total amount of pilots.

Jim