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What? Recall Flight Attendants? For What?

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From the HOTLINE:

"It has come to APFA’s attention that there have been instances of crews being forced to fly when illegal or making deals with Crew Scheduling to fly illegal, thus violating the Contract. Please contact your Base Chair or APFA’s Scheduling Department via email or phone if you have been involved in such a situation. All contact information can be found at the top of apfa.org’s main Web page under “CONTACT.â€￾

:blink: ........ :bleh:
 
From the HOTLINE:

"It has come to APFA’s attention that there have been instances of crews being forced to fly when illegal or making deals with Crew Scheduling to fly illegal, thus violating the Contract. Please contact your Base Chair or APFA’s Scheduling Department via email or phone if you have been involved in such a situation. All contact information can be found at the top of apfa.org’s main Web page under “CONTACT.â€￾

:blink: ........ :bleh:

You have got to be the most bitter person on this board. Quit the b****ing and go find a job with another airline, if you don't like it. United, Continental and Southwest are all hiring.
 
You have too much time on your hands. Get back to work; or better yet, go make a deal with your scheduler!

And please don't make assumptions about me. 😛h34r:

Bitter? You better believe it!

APFA is not a union.
I tried and tried and tried to not post on this sort of stuff.

but this bitter bitter person brought it out of me.

I want to reply to the signature APFA is not a Union. And ask Why do you say that. This is How I see it...you are angry because you say the APFA put you on the bottom of the seniority list. ( I do not agree or dis agree with it. I have 2 f/a family members furloughed because their seniority from TWA did not transfer.) But a Flight Attendant union is there to protect its current members...and from an outsider looking in..it seems to me that is exactly what they did.

Now as far as you not getting your recall rights extended I can only assume that the APFA asked for it and when AA asked for something in return it was far too costly for the APFA to give up.

I do not expect you to understand I only expect you to be back on this board spewing insults at the APFA the Company and anyone associated with AA.
 
I tried and tried and tried to not post on this sort of stuff.

but this bitter bitter person brought it out of me.

I want to reply to the signature APFA is not a Union. And ask Why do you say that. This is How I see it...you are angry because you say the APFA put you on the bottom of the seniority list. ( I do not agree or dis agree with it. I have 2 f/a family members furloughed because their seniority from TWA did not transfer.) But a Flight Attendant union is there to protect its current members...and from an outsider looking in..it seems to me that is exactly what they did.

Now as far as you not getting your recall rights extended I can only assume that the APFA asked for it and when AA asked for something in return it was far too costly for the APFA to give up.

I do not expect you to understand I only expect you to be back on this board spewing insults at the APFA the Company and anyone associated with AA.


Let's try to be rational during this discussion. This issue is not about the SIA. The APFA is the only union not to secure extended recall during the RPA. The APFA has signed LOAs (Letters of Agreement) that have harmed both the active and the furloughed MEMBERS. The TWA portion of the furloughed have been members of the APFA since THEY (the APFA) petitioned the NLRB to become the representing union. Why? Because of the potential 4600 new member dues dollars. We would have been fine to keep the separate LLC and our contract. Bottom line, we became members 6 years ago. The APFA is also the only union to GIVE away furlough pay (without receiving any credit towards the RPA requirements). The illegal extension of the RPA vote is still under Court action. The botched negotiations and the subsequent (unnecessary) loss of jobs gives validity to the poster's anger.
It is very easy to say, "Get a new job", "interview with another airline". Those are comments and sentiments expressed by those who have not had their careers unnecessarily ended (or interrupted). Everyone has gone on to another job. You don't sit on your duff for 4 years when you have yourself and family to support. Those furloughed and possibly nearing the falloff (due to the APFA FAILURE to secure comparable extended recall, just want to opportunity to finish their airline career and leave at their choice not an artificial ethnic cleansing. Many have over 30 years invested and the furloughed community (as a whole) have contributed over $600,000,000 in shared sacrifice towards AA's financial recovery. At the very least, they should be allowed to return.
 
You have too much time on your hands. Get back to work; or better yet, go make a deal with your scheduler!

And please don't make assumptions about me. 😛h34r:

Bitter? You better believe it!

APFA is not a union.


You would be quite entertaining, if not so sad. I am sure that this is not the only issue in your life you are bitter about.

It's funny how a bad experience with somebody can change perceptions considerably. I HAD been hoping for the recall of more former TWA flight attendants, but if your apparent over-the-top bitterness is shared by the others on the furlough list, I really could care less whether you get recalled or not.

Now as far as you not getting your recall rights extended I can only assume that the APFA asked for it and when AA asked for something in return it was far too costly for the APFA to give up.

I would not give up one thin dime in additional concessions to bring FurloughedbyAPFA back.
 
You would be quite entertaining, if not so sad. I am sure that this is not the only issue in your life you are bitter about.

It's funny how a bad experience with somebody can change perceptions considerably. I HAD been hoping for the recall of more former TWA flight attendants, but if your apparent over-the-top bitterness is shared by the others on the furlough list, I really could care less whether you get recalled or not.
I would not give up one thin dime in additional concessions to bring FurloughedbyAPFA back.


This prevailing attitude is only doing what AA loves to see...division in the ranks. As I stated above the furloughed have already paid over $600,000,000 for the right to return. That is not out of YOUR pocket. The furloughed (YOUR PEERS) took a 100% concession. They have equal say and rights as to what will be voted on in the next contract. Don't ever throw the baby out with the bath water. Items that may be important to you could wind up on the chopping block by either the company or the union. You will all need every bit of togetherness to compete in the same arena with AA Labor Relations. You are taking comments about THE UNION as a personal attack against the active AA f/as. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The furloughed (YOUR PEERS) are looking forward to working side by side with you. They just want the chance. There are consumate professionals who have already completed the training process and there are only good comments all around. The instructors and fellow furloughed )already AA qualified, worked hard to teach new commands to offset 35 to 40 years of habit. The more returned the more relief from extended trips and serving reserve. It is a win, win for all.
 
This prevailing attitude is only doing what AA loves to see...division in the ranks. As I stated above the furloughed have already paid over $600,000,000 for the right to return. That is not out of YOUR pocket. The furloughed (YOUR PEERS) took a 100% concession. They have equal say and rights as to what will be voted on in the next contract. Don't ever throw the baby out with the bath water. Items that may be important to you could wind up on the chopping block by either the company or the union. You will all need every bit of togetherness to compete in the same arena with AA Labor Relations. You are taking comments about THE UNION as a personal attack against the active AA f/as. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The furloughed (YOUR PEERS) are looking forward to working side by side with you. They just want the chance. There are consumate professionals who have already completed the training process and there are only good comments all around. The instructors and fellow furloughed )already AA qualified, worked hard to teach new commands to offset 35 to 40 years of habit. The more returned the more relief from extended trips and serving reserve. It is a win, win for all.


While I normally appreciate your posts, and until I read Furloughed's comments, I was squarely in the former TWA flight attendants' corner, now I really could care less.

Furloughed's comments were not just aimed at the union; they were also aimed at active AA flight attendants, implying that we are all either too stupid or selfish to NOT realize the danger in making deals with Crew Schedule. You try to portray ALL of the furloughed's as consummate professionals and unionists, I happen to know that PLENTY of them made "deals with the devil," at one point or another during their career. There will ALWAYS be those types in every workforce.

Your comments are well-intended, Nancy, but, based on my experience with Furloughed here, I no longer care whether they bring any furloughees back.
 
While I normally appreciate your posts, and until I read Furloughed's comments, I was squarely in the former TWA flight attendants' corner, now I really could care less.

Furloughed's comments were not just aimed at the union; they were also aimed at active AA flight attendants, implying that we are all either too stupid or selfish to NOT realize the danger in making deals with Crew Schedule. You try to portray ALL of the furloughed's as consummate professionals and unionists, I happen to know that PLENTY of them made "deals with the devil," at one point or another during their career. There will ALWAYS be those types in every workforce.

Your comments are well-intended, Nancy, but, based on my experience with Furloughed here, I no longer care whether they bring any furloughees back.


Well, if you're willing to change your opinion of 2000 based on one contributor to this forum, I would have to question your objectivity. I happen to agree that f/as should follow the contract, even if it does inconvenience you as an individual. How can you expect AA, Crew Scheduling or the Union to respect your rights if you're willing to break the "rules" IF it suits your needs. The Company gathers statistical numbers to use against you in negotiations based on how many are "willing" to fly when illegal.

Our board is full of those crying "foul" for those flying Option II, etc. These are some of the same that flew high time when we had many on furlough. Funny how perception changes when the "shoe" is on YOUR foot. I can be somewhat sanctimonious because I CHOSE to just fly my line and very rarely picked up any open time. I new that I only helped to keep my furloughed peers on the street if I flew Company openings. It is different when you pick up a trip from another f/a.

As for our f/a's past, I can say as a full term striker, out from March 1986 to the end of May 1988, that we have come to terms and forgiven. That is one reason we have been so success in our unity. And even "back when", we kept off the airplane. That shows professionalism. We had our share of "stinkers" but most are long gone. Several moved to AA after less than stellar careers at TWA..lol Some are still there and some showed their colors and have "moved on" to other airlines.

I certainly wouldn't form my opinion of the active f/as based on the comments of Jays, Joels, Travis', and others that have been less than complementary. From the beginning, when we were active participants on the APFA bb, some were viciously attacking me for even suggesting that something might be "amiss" with the corporate demand that the RPA be settled before the release of the SEC report. The kindest name I was called was old b***H...lol (and very true) So, in the scheme of things, one persons opinion is just , one persons opinion.
 
Well, if you're willing to change your opinion of 2000 based on one contributor to this forum, I would have to question your objectivity. I happen to agree that f/as should follow the contract, even if it does inconvenience you as an individual. How can you expect AA, Crew Scheduling or the Union to respect your rights if you're willing to break the "rules" IF it suits your needs. The Company gathers statistical numbers to use against you in negotiations based on how many are "willing" to fly when illegal.

I am very objective, but it becomes very tiresome to have someone scream that they deserve respect when they are not willing to give respect in return.
 
I am very objective, but it becomes very tiresome to have someone scream that they deserve respect when they are not willing to give respect in return.


Respect is earned. The APFA has done NOTHING to earn respect from anyone's point of view. The leadership sold ALL of us down the river. I watch with interest the progression of the Courts "take" on this issue.

Respect is a two way street. There will be those you meet, (hopefully), and learn about their amazing strength, history and perseverance, and they will earn your respect. Likewise, respect will be earned when we are working side by side and we learn YOUR history, strength and perseverance. That is when the true character of real f/as will appear, and unity will be forged. Jumpseats are amazing, aren't they?

I have great faith that we will build on the common ground and become a formidable force. AA's worst nightmare was watching us walk side by side in St. Louis (at the bonus protest), laughing and getting to know each other. With new base leadership, I believe there will be events planned to keep the meetings and greetings on going.
 
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