What would happend if we merge again?

[nycbusdriver]

Except for the DFR to follow. Read the ninth ruling. Without the Nicolau and it does the harm the west fears. Unquestionably ripe DFR. Proceeded by an injunction preventing the implementation of the new contract.

Do you guys feel that box getting smaller everyday?

Of course there would be a DFR lawsuit filed if such a contract ever got ratified. No one questions that.

Why would an injunction preclude the entire contract from being implemented? You would be asking the judge to reverse any pay raises and work rule improvements you might have. On what basis would USAPA have shunned their DFR by getting you a pay raise?

Or, would you seek to enjoin the implementation of Section 22? The judge might actually do that, since that is the root cause of your complaint. And then Section 22 would be held in suspension pending the end of litigation. Judges don't enjoin entire contracts just because one part MAY be illegal.

 

[SparrowHawk]

The second AA merger thread has now become the ninth pilot thread. Great.

Let's see if you and I can get it back on track shall we?

One of the things I noticed in reading is that some seem to think that a merger/Acquisition means that AA Management takes over the operation of the new Airline.

Why would anyone assume that Smug Doug would stand still for that happening? Especially since it would likely be his airline that would be bringing along the Benjamen's to seal the deal?

 

[N965VJ]

Just for the record, I was always hot for the Jan Smithers Character, Bailey Quarters

Not me, I dig chicks that can put me in my place (or at least try).

One of the things I noticed in reading is that some seem to think that a merger/Acquisition means that AA Management takes over the operation of the new Airline.

Why would anyone assume that Smug Doug would stand still for that happening?

There is no way Doug would step aside. If all he wanted was a golden parachute, he could have pulled the ripcord a long time ago. He wants to be a playa'.

 

[Al Legheny]

There are several problems with that. First of all the Company isn't going to risk a collusion lawsuit which they have been advised will happen if they accept a non-NIC seniority list. So all of the "good faith" negotiations will not yield more than they already have on the financial sections of the CBA until a court answers the legal questions about the SLI.

The second problem is that even if Management ignored the risk and completed negotiations with USAPA on a non-NIC JCBA, the existence of a ratified TA does not in any way take the DFR claim off the table. USAPA already lost the first DFR lawsuit for not using the NIC in a federal court and with a fully ripe matter before the courts they should have every expectation that they would lose again, even without $eham driving the USAPA bus off the cliff.

This is all academic anyway. Management will never accept a non-NIC list unless a federal court gives them the all clear to accept something else. So section 22 must be closed before any superseding agreements can be reached and that is very unlikely to occur until all of the court challenges run their course. Besides, if what the USAPA zealots are claiming will happen tomorrow actually does result in restored east wages, then a JCBA is more than just a few years away. By their own admission they will stop seeking a JCBA and trying to overturn the NIC. They will apparently be happy to remain in status quo until they are forced to abandon that strategy. That says a little something about their true lack of confidence in what the Ninth said (and didn't say) versus the bluster we see on these boards.

I thought this thread was about the possibility of a merger with AA? If that is the case a new transition agreement will have to be negotiated and the old one scrapped. The old one will be moot anyway as the parties have not fulfilled the agreement.

So we are then faced with the possibility that any pilot group, APA, of USAPA East or West, could invoke section 3 and 13 of Allegheny Mohawk as provided in the McCaskill Bond amendment as follows:

Civil Aeronautics Board Reports- Allegheny-Mohawk Merger

Section 3. Insofar as the merger affects the seniority rights of the carriers employees, provisions shall be made for the integration of seniority lists in a fair and equitable manner, including, where applicable, agreement through collective bargaining between the carriers and the representatives of the employees affected. In the event of failure to agree, the dispute may be submitted by either party for adjustment in accordance with section 13.


Section 13. (a) In the event that any dispute or controversy (except as to matters arising under section 9) arises with respect to the protections provided herein which cannot be settle by the parties within 20 days after the controversy arises, it may be referred by any party to an arbitrator selected from a panel of seven names furnished by the National Mediation Board for consideration and determination. The parties shall select the arbitrator from such panel by alternatively striking names until only one remains, and he shall serve as arbitrator. Expedited hearings and decisions will be expected, and a decision shall be rendered within 90 days after the controversy arises, unless an extension of time it is mutually agreeable to all parties. The salary and expenses of the arbitrator shall be borne equally by the carrier and (i) the organization or organizations representing employee or employees or (ii) if unrepresented, the employee or employees or group or groups of employees. The decision of the arbitrator shall be final and binding on the parties.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It doesn't look like the Nicolau award or a straight Date of Hire list will survive this outcome. It effectively means a do over for the East / West pilots as part of a greater seniority list integration with APA. I don't see how judge Silver will mandate that the parties come to an agreement implementing the Nicolau award with Judge Wake and the Ninth said that the courts could not impose a solution without membership ratification.

The transition agreement will be moot as it does not conform to the new reality of the situaition vis a vie APA / American Airlines, and any party can invoke arbitration. Doug Parker will like this because it gets him off the hook for DFR liability because he is just complying with the law and the transition agreement that he was bound to is now not valid and a new one will have to be negotiated.

A merger under the provisions of the McCasskill Bond amendment is a whole new ballgame for all the parties involved.

 

[jimntx]

Section 13. (a) In the event that any dispute or controversy (except as to matters arising under section 9) arises with respect to the protections provided herein which cannot be settle by the parties within 20 days after the controversy arises, it may be referred by any party to an arbitrator selected from a panel of seven names furnished by the National Mediation Board for consideration and determination. The parties shall select the arbitrator from such panel by alternatively striking names until only one remains, and he shall serve as arbitrator. Expedited hearings and decisions will be expected, and a decision shall be rendered within 90 days after the controversy arises, unless an extension of time it is mutually agreeable to all parties. The salary and expenses of the arbitrator shall be borne equally by the carrier and (i) the organization or organizations representing employee or employees or (ii) if unrepresented, the employee or employees or group or groups of employees. The decision of the arbitrator shall be final and binding on the parties.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It doesn't look like the Nicolau award or a straight Date of Hire list will survive this outcome. It effectively means a do over for the East / West pilots as part of a greater seniority list integration with APA.

Well, the East demanded and got binding arbitration before and chose not to comply with the binding arbitration decision. So, how is another binding arbitration decision going to change things--especially if the arbitrator decides that AA and US west pilots will not be stapled to the bottom of the US east list which, of course, is the only fair resolution possible.

 

[Al Legheny]

Well, the East demanded and got binding arbitration before and chose not to comply with the binding arbitration decision. So, how is another binding arbitration decision going to change things--especially if the arbitrator decides that AA and US west pilots will not be stapled to the bottom of the US east list which, of course, is the only fair resolution possible.

That is simple, the first arbitration was pursuent to the internal and private policy of a fomer bargaining agnet who is no longer on the property. It has no relevance. An arbitration under the Federal law of McKaskill Bond is binding on the parties by law.

There is a diffference. One is a private dispute resolution methodology, and one of the parites is no longer present and the other is Federal Law.

Evnen your Judge Wake agrees that he cannot impose the Nicolau award absent a ratified contract.

 

[nevergiveup]

Well, the East demanded and got binding arbitration before and chose not to comply with the binding arbitration decision. So, how is another binding arbitration decision going to change things--especially if the arbitrator decides that AA and US west pilots will not be stapled to the bottom of the US east list which, of course, is the only fair resolution possible.

It (nic) will never be legally implemented. There will never be another signed US Airways Pilot's contract. My humble opinion only.

 

[jimntx]

That is simple, the first arbitration was pursuent to the internal and private policy of a fomer bargaining agnet who is no longer on the property. It has no relevance. An arbitration under the Federal law of McKaskill Bond is binding on the parties by law.

There is a diffference. One is a private dispute resolution methodology, and one of the parites is no longer present and the other is Federal Law.

Evnen your Judge Wake agrees that he cannot impose the Nicolau award absent a ratified contract.

OK. So, if you don't like the decision of the arbitrater on AA-US, you can remove the bargaining agent (USAPA) from the property, vote in the US Airline Pilots Association (board-approved downtown) (USAPA (bad)), and the decision will not apply, right? And, IIRC, Mr. Nicolau came to the process via a group called the National Mediation Board (NMB) which is a Federal entity created under Federal law. How is that a "private" methodology? Why is M-B (which specifies use of the NMB) more binding than the pre-existing Federal laws.

You easties appear to talk out of both sides of your mouth. When your think Federal law will produce a decision in your favor, FEDERAL GOOD. When not in your favor, FEDERAL BAD. ?????

P.S. What you gonna do if the arbitrator appointed is Nicolau or his best friend?
P.P.S He's not MY Judge Wake. I work for AA.

 

[Move2CLT]

That is simple, the first arbitration was pursuent to the internal and private policy of a fomer bargaining agnet who is no longer on the property. It has no relevance. An arbitration under the Federal law of McKaskill Bond is binding on the parties by law.

There is a diffference. One is a private dispute resolution methodology, and one of the parites is no longer present and the other is Federal Law.

Evnen your Judge Wake agrees that he cannot impose the Nicolau award absent a ratified contract.

Nothing disappears in a puff of smoke Al. All agreements are valid and binding.

And we get it about ratifying a contract. Irony here is that you guys will ratify it should a proper offer with Nic come across the table. Even Driver knows that.

 

[Move2CLT]

It (nic) will never be legally implemented. There will never be another signed US Airways Pilot's contract. My humble opinion only.

What about LOA 93?

 

[luvthe9]

>
>>>> US Airways Group, Inc. Investor Investigation Concerning Takeover Rumor
>>>>
>>>> If you are a current investor in US Airways Group, Inc. (NYSE:LCC) shares, and/or have any information relating the investigation, you have certain options and you should contact the Shareholders Foundation, Inc.
>>>> To have your information reviewed for options and to recieve notifications about this investigation, please use this form. You may also send an email to [email protected], or call us at (858) 779-1554.
>>>> Company Name(s):
>>>> US Airways Group
>>>> Affected Securities:
>>>> NYSE: LCC
>>>> After several media reports indicated that US Airways Group, Inc. might be the next takeover target an investigation on behalf of investors of US Airways Group, Inc. (NYSE:LCC) over possible breaches of fiduciary duties was announced.
>>>> The investigation by a law firm concerns whether US Airways Group, Inc. and certain of its officers and directors or others will breach or breached their fiduciary duties owed to US Airways Group, Inc. (NYSE:LCC) investors in connection with the takeover rumors or in the event of a takeover.
>>>> According to media outlets, the CEO of US Airways said his company is the last major airline left to be sold, and his carrier could perhaps join hands with its three biggest rivals.
>>>> CEO Doug Parker reportedly said at a press event “that deal could happen one day, or it might not,”
>>>> In fact, US Airways Group, Inc. performed financially well for its investors in the past. US Airways Group’s 12 months Total Revenue increased from $10.458billion in 2009 to $11.908billion in 2010. Its Net Income rose from a Net Loss of $205million for 2009 to a Net Income of $502million for 2010.
>>>> Shares of US Airways Group, Inc. (NYSE: LLC) increased from as low as $2.04 per share during July 2009 to over $11.70 during 2010.
>>>> Therefore the investigation by a law firm questions whether a potential sale process and the potential price would be unfair to the shareholders of US Airways Group, Inc. (NYSE:LCC). The investigation focuses whether the US Airways Group board of directors will undertake an adequate and fair sales process to obtain fair consideration for all shareholders of US Airways Group, Inc. (NYSE:LCC) and will breach their fiduciary duties to US Airways Group (LCC) shareholder by failing to adequately shop the Company before entering into any transaction. In addition the investigation seeks also to determine if any officer, director or any insiders violated any laws in connection with the takeover rumors. The investigation concerns also whether an acquirer would underpay for NYSE:LCC shares, thus unlawfully harming LCC investors. A potential class action lawsuit would seek to maximize the amount of money and information US Airways Group, Inc. shareholders would receive in a buyout, so the law firm.
>>>> After several media reports indicated that US Airways Group, Inc. might be the next takeover target an investigation on behalf of investors of US Airways Group, Inc. (NYSE:LCC) over possible breaches of fiduciary duties was announced.
>>>> NYSE: LCC
>>>> US Airways Group
>>>> Source URL: http://shareholdersfoundation.com/caseinvestigation/us-airways-group-inc-investor-investigation-concerning-takeover-rumor
>>>

 

[LUVJAMESC4EVER]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Shares-of-American-Airlines-apf-3783353688.html?x=0&.v=5


http://www.airlinedaily.com/feeds.html#http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&usg=AFQjCNHuDb4VlAIV-tWM_tnto2eL8XLHjQ&url=http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_southeast_valley/tempe/speculation-in-us-airways-merger-increases

 

[jimntx]

Note that even the headline uses the word, SPECULATION. That means people who don't really know anything guessing at what they think is a possible outcome. About as useful as the multiple threads that have all been started on this same topic with different headings to make them appear to be a new thread.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

In 2000 the lid was so tight on the TWA deal no one had heard even a whisper about it until the story broke in the Washington Post.The line employees will be the last to know about anything that happens.Hell, if it means the end of Arpey's reign of Slumber I'm all for it at this point.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Just for sh*ts & giggles, as someone once said, what would happen if a merger was in the works and M/B was used ?

What pilot list would be presented to the arbitrator?

What would happen if the union gave up CoC in return for something more favorable?

Could that make it worth the company's while?

Like I said, sh*ts & giggles.