What would you do?

[jersey777]

I was sitting in my jumpseat for landing..I was #6 on the 767-300..and struck up a conversation with the passenger sitting next to me during taxi. She was sitting in 17b which is normally the crew rest seat. After a few minutes of friendly light conversation she asked me if I was the purser and I said no. She then proceeded so tell me that she was upset because she was "reprimanded"...her words... by another flight attendant during the flight. This other flight attendant was the #7 who happened to be sitting directly behind me in her own jumpseat. She then told me that she had a bunch of papers...I'm not sure if they were newspapers or not...and that she had a bad back so instead of placing the papers in the seat pocket in front of he she was throwing them behind her seat. If you are not familiar with this seat then this is equivalent to throwing your papers behind the last seat before the bulkhead...kind of into a no man's land. Appearantly she was told by the #7 not to do this. I found out later that some of the papers were spilling out into the ailse. Now this lady was very nicely dressed and was Executive platinum and was not going off on me but was telling me in a calm manner but I could tell she was very upset. Also..let me say..the #7 was one of the sweetest girls I have ever met. I didn't know her before this flight but I did see that the day before she personally thanked all her passengers in Business class. So her I am in strapped in my jumpseat in front of one of my co-workers listening to a complaint and she was asking me her name! Well....I first tried to tell her to see the purser on her way out but she persisted and then I told her to write a letter if she had an issue. I never gave her the #7's name. I tried to lend a sympathetic ear but I wanted to tell her that she was wrong for not asking for a bag to throw her stuff away and that someone was going to have to clean the plane and dig behind those seats to pick up all her trash. Also...why didn't she just ask the flightt attendant her name and leave me out of it. Anyways...she asked the purser for her name on the way out and he told her the same thing...write a letter to management. I would love to know how a supervisor would have handled this situation. Is she going to get advantage miles out of this? Who knows? I am just curious...what would you have done? If you were a manager...would you support the flight attendants actions as long as they were not rude?

 

[eolesen]

I'm not sure I would have given out the name either, but my question is why didn't the #7 offer the pax a bag to put the papers into? The whole explanation from the pax seems a bit odd...

If she writes, she'll probably get a "thanks, we'll look into it letter" but getting miles these days is rarer and rarer. Things really have to be botched for that or a travel voucher. If you're that concerned about it, tell the #7 to write up her version of it while it is still fresh in mind, and consider filing it via AFARs. Consumer Relations actually does refer to that when doing investigations on customer complaints. If nothing else, she'll have her account of it should it ever be brought to her by a FSM.

Last thought... not giving your name to a customer who asks makes it seem like you've got something to hide. I had business cards printed up with mine (so customers would get it right) when I was an agent (it only cost about $5 at the time), and for all the times I was asked for my name, I only ever saw letters result twice. On one of my last trips to France, I was treated ruder than normal by an agent from another airline, and asked (in French) for her name. She refused, and went so far as to remove her ID from view, lest I try to take it down from there). That in itself warranted a letter....

 

[jimntx]

I also have a problem with everyone refusing to give the f/a's name. Would you rather the passenger file a complaint against the entire crew? The passenger is not going to know the f/a who offended her is the #7. However, she is going to be able to say that "I was seated in seat such and such and the f/a seated directly across from me (that would be you) and the Purser refused to identify the culprit." My guess is that if the woman does file a complaint, you and the Purser are probably going to get called in, and a letter will get added to your file.

Now, I am not interested in getting into a p*ss*ing contest with f/as who pride themselves on the subject of "the company can't make me wear that name tag" (Yes, they can. They have defined it as part of the uniform. And, unless you are signing your own paycheck, the golden rule is "He who has the gold makes the rules.") But, you should wear the name tag with, at least, your first name or a nickname on it.

In my vast experience of almost 6 years, the "sweetest f/as in the whole world" who refuse to wear their name tags are the ones who are rude to the customers (especially if they have to put down their People magazine to answer a call light) and b*tchy to their co-workers. They are also the ones who quit wearing their name tag because so many passengers were complaining about them.

Before you post it, I also don't believe the legend of "My best friend's next door neighbor's hairdresser's dog groomer's daughter was a f/a for American back in 1955 and a passenger got her name from her nametag and started stalking her." (No doubt, the passenger tracked her down on the Internet. )

 

[jersey777]

I also have a problem with everyone refusing to give the f/a's name. Would you rather the passenger file a complaint against the entire crew? The passenger is not going to know the f/a who offended her is the #7. However, she is going to be able to say that "I was seated in seat such and such and the f/a seated directly across from me (that would be you) and the Purser refused to identify the culprit." My guess is that if the woman does file a complaint, you and the Purser are probably going to get called in, and a letter will get added to your file.

Now, I am not interested in getting into a p*ss*ing contest with f/as who pride themselves on the subject of "the company can't make me wear that name tag" (Yes, they can. They have defined it as part of the uniform. And, unless you are signing your own paycheck, the golden rule is "He who has the gold makes the rules.") But, you should wear the name tag with, at least, your first name or a nickname on it.

In my vast experience of almost 6 years, the "sweetest f/as in the whole world" who refuse to wear their name tags are the ones who are rude to the customers (especially if they have to put down their People magazine to answer a call light) and b*tchy to their co-workers. They are also the ones who quit wearing their name tag because so many passengers were complaining about them.

Before you post it, I also don't believe the legend of "My best friend's next door neighbor's hairdresser's dog groomer's daughter was a f/a for American back in 1955 and a passenger got her name from her nametag and started stalking her." (No doubt, the passenger tracked her down on the Internet. )

Personally....if someone asks for my name then I give it to them. I am not sure if the flight attendant was wearing her name tag or not. She could have been but I thought it was interesting that the passenger didn't seem interested in asking the flight attendant involved and asked me for her name when she was sitting right there...btw..the other flight attendant was busy engaged in a conversation with the people facing her and was not aware of my conversation. The passenger didn't like the fact that she was basically called on the fact she was trashing the airplane unreasonably. My question back to you Jim is what would you have said to the passenger if you were a manager?

 

[skibumbos]

I don't see anywhere in the original post where the passenger directly asked the flight attendant in question for her name. If she was so upset, she should have spoken with the flight attendant. And I do think that the fight attendant had every right to ask the woman not to throw her trash all over the floor!!! Did the woman at least clean it up when she left???

 

[jimntx]

Personally....if someone asks for my name then I give it to them. I am not sure if the flight attendant was wearing her name tag or not. She could have been but I thought it was interesting that the passenger didn't seem interested in asking the flight attendant involved and asked me for her name when she was sitting right there...btw..the other flight attendant was busy engaged in a conversation with the people facing her and was not aware of my conversation. The passenger didn't like the fact that she was basically called on the fact she was trashing the airplane unreasonably. My question back to you Jim is what would you have said to the passenger if you were a manager?

Considering the condition of most of the a/c these days, how would the customer know that they were "trashing" the airplane? As a f/a, as someone else suggested, I might have offered them a market bag to put the papers in. Or, I would have made a joke about it. Something like, "Ma'am, that space behind your seat is like the space behind the couch--almost impossible to clean. Because of the bulkhead we might have to take the seat out to get to things thrown back there."

I'm not saying the f/a was rude, but neither of us know whether she was or not. All we know is that the passenger was upset. Defusing the situation is the first order of the day. Refusing to answer a direct question--especially on the part of the purser--will probably escalate the situation and guarantee that the passenger files a complaint. As just another crewmember I probably would have done what you did--i.e., direct the passenger to the purser. But, the purser not answering the question is going to result in this being "the worst flight in all my years of flying with AA. I've NEVER been treated so rudely. Yada yada yada."

As far as what would I say as a manager...you have to remember that most FSMs are scared of their shadows. Upper management's position is that the f/a is always wrong until proven otherwise, and the FSMs follow that philosophy. You are right that American rewards bad behavior; although, it's not as much as it used to be. But, the fact that the passenger is an EP makes it just that much worse. The reality is that they pay a lot of the bills around here, and the company tends to err on the side of the passenger in these cases. And, since the passenger may or may not be able to describe the #7 sufficiently to identify her, but she will be able to place you by where you and she were sitting, I'm afraid this is going to land on your head.

 

[FA Mikey]

Its obvious the lady is a total slob. I don't care what your ailment throwing trash over your head and behind the seats says it all. I also have grown weary of customers who are to chicken crap to say to a person, "may I have your name please." They insist that a coworker give them that information. I would normally assume the flight attendant was overly obnoxious as is all to often the case, and jumped down her throat. But the author says differently. The fact that the crew member sat there hearing the whole conversation and didn't but in or start something there says that they had a cool head in the matter.

I also don't get the whole BS i cant wear a name tag, or give out my name for security reasons. If they can safely wear a name tag at Macys, Wendy's and every where else without major incident. I see no reason all crew members cannot do the same.

 

[FWAAA]

My upgrade cleared the other evening MIA-LAX on 649, the 763. Got my fav seat in row 6 and had a great flight. Throughout the flight, kept the area around my seat picked up, as always.

I picked up the plastic bag holding the duvet and pillow, the chocolate wrappers, the misc napkins, etc. When I deplaned at LAX, the area around my seat looked like it did 6 hours earlier when I boarded.

As always, I was appalled at the garbage-strewn areas around the other seats. Napkins, magazines, newspapers, blue tablecloths, everything just tossed on the floor. What a freakin pigsty. Not unlike the garbage infested yards you see in the poorest neighborhoods when you travel by train. It's even worse on NRT, PVG and DEL ultra-long flights.

What's with these people?

I might have told off the EXP had I seen her tossing paper behind her seat.

I agree with FAMikey about the passive-aggressives who won't ask someone for their name, but I can sort of understand why someone might not ask an FA for their name after being "reprimanded" by that FA: The fear that the FA is one of the tiny percentage who seem anxious to declare that anyone who does anything besides smile and say "thank you" is guilty of interferring with a flight crew member in the performance of their duties. As a passenger, you really don't want any FA playing that card.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I also have a problem with everyone refusing to give the f/a's name. Would you rather the passenger file a complaint against the entire crew? The passenger is not going to know the f/a who offended her is the #7. However, she is going to be able to say that "I was seated in seat such and such and the f/a seated directly across from me (that would be you) and the Purser refused to identify the culprit." My guess is that if the woman does file a complaint, you and the Purser are probably going to get called in, and a letter will get added to your file.

Now, I am not interested in getting into a p*ss*ing contest with f/as who pride themselves on the subject of "the company can't make me wear that name tag" (Yes, they can. They have defined it as part of the uniform. And, unless you are signing your own paycheck, the golden rule is "He who has the gold makes the rules.") But, you should wear the name tag with, at least, your first name or a nickname on it.

In my vast experience of almost 6 years, the "sweetest f/as in the whole world" who refuse to wear their name tags are the ones who are rude to the customers (especially if they have to put down their People magazine to answer a call light) and b*tchy to their co-workers. They are also the ones who quit wearing their name tag because so many passengers were complaining about them.

Before you post it, I also don't believe the legend of "My best friend's next door neighbor's hairdresser's dog groomer's daughter was a f/a for American back in 1955 and a passenger got her name from her nametag and started stalking her." (No doubt, the passenger tracked her down on the Internet. )

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

jimntx,

(this May be one of those few times we AGREE-to-DISAGREE)

I have a HUGE problem with you, volunteering the name of another UNION member !!!!

As to the purser, (I'm admitting to NOT knowing the union Job Description of a Purser), I probably, ..NO...make that, I would carry AA embossed business cards, stating that I AM a purser(with MY name on it), ........Informed the complaintant that the F/A in question was working the # (*) position ...NO NAME GIVEN,..., wrote the address on the back of my purser card(to HDQ), ....and "huddled" with the F/A in question,.........and strongly suggested that he/she write a description of what happened, in hers/his words.

If as purser, I would'nt volunteer that I DID or DID'NT witness the incident..UNLESS directly asked if I HAD, or HAD NOT(by management)....AND, if asked if I HAD,,...then I would inform management, that "we"(F/A and myself) had a "discussion" about the incident(Even if I(purser) was the one to have to INITIATE the discussion.

 

[FA Mikey]

NHBB every FA is required to wear a name tag. That being the case a name is not nor should it ever be top secret.

 

[jimntx]

Beside that, part of the Purser's job is provide resolution for problems on the a/c. They are paid extra to do this. Simply telling a passenger they have to write to the company is not resolving the problem. It is unrealistic in the extreme to say that the Purser can hide behind the fact that they didn't witness the incident. Purser-staffed a/c are too big to allow the Purser to duck any issue they "didn't witness."

And, don't give me the union argument either. That argument is usually put forth when I'm expected to take the fall for someone who should be reprimanded or even fired. If I were a gambling man, I would bet that the f/a who started this thread is going to end up with a "letter" in his/her file because they are the only one beside the Purser that the passenger will be able to identify. To resolve the issue, management will try to find a way to pin it on him/her; so, they can document to upper management that they "took care of the situation."

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Its obvious the lady is a total slob. I don't care what your ailment throwing trash over your head and behind the seats says it all. I also have grown weary of customers who are to chicken crap to say to a person, "may I have your name please." They insist that a coworker give them that information. I would normally assume the flight attendant was overly obnoxious as is all to often the case, and jumped down her throat. But the author says differently. The fact that the crew member sat there hearing the whole conversation and didn't but in or start something there says that they had a cool head in the matter.

I also don't get the whole BS i cant wear a name tag, or give out my name for security reasons. If they can safely wear a name tag at Macys, Wendy's and every where else without major incident. I see no reason all crew members cannot do the same.

I agree on all counts, Mikey.

 

[nbmcg01]

I agree on all counts, Mikey.

As a former FSM (Purser), I would get the information from the pax and assure them that I would personally "handle" the situation. Perception is everything. I would explain "that is why I get the big bucks". This stops the pax from "passing it on", allows the f/a to explain "their side", allows the pax the
ability to "vent" and in most cases, resolves the situation. How many of you all have run into the pax that loves to threaten, "I'll have your job"? Of course, I would just hand them a full trash bag and say, "If you want my job, you need to take the glamour too". I retired with close to 350 commendation letters from pax, and peers, so I must have done something right.

 

[Coffee_Tea_Or_Me]

I remember being told in new hire training at US East that it was a corporate security violation to give a flight attendant's name. In retrospect, at that time all US new hire instructors were line FAs, so they were probably looking out for their brethern. I realize this security thing makes no sense -- Continental and United have aprons (and wings?) with the employee's name on them, I think.

In fact, I remember the specific wording I was told to give a pax who wanted a crewmember's name -- "The date and the flight number will be sufficient." Then, all FAs on the trip would get letters in our mail files and ask to write something up about the incident. If the letter was particularly bad, I think In-Flight would call you.

 

[Skymess]

I was sitting in my jumpseat for landing..I was #6 on the 767-300..and struck up a conversation with the passenger sitting next to me during taxi. She was sitting in 17b which is normally the crew rest seat. After a few minutes of friendly light conversation she asked me if I was the purser and I said no. She then proceeded so tell me that she was upset because she was "reprimanded"...her words... by another flight attendant during the flight. This other flight attendant was the #7 who happened to be sitting directly behind me in her own jumpseat. She then told me that she had a bunch of papers...I'm not sure if they were newspapers or not...and that she had a bad back so instead of placing the papers in the seat pocket in front of he she was throwing them behind her seat. If you are not familiar with this seat then this is equivalent to throwing your papers behind the last seat before the bulkhead...kind of into a no man's land. Appearantly she was told by the #7 not to do this. I found out later that some of the papers were spilling out into the ailse. Now this lady was very nicely dressed and was Executive platinum and was not going off on me but was telling me in a calm manner but I could tell she was very upset. Also..let me say..the #7 was one of the sweetest girls I have ever met. I didn't know her before this flight but I did see that the day before she personally thanked all her passengers in Business class. So her I am in strapped in my jumpseat in front of one of my co-workers listening to a complaint and she was asking me her name! Well....I first tried to tell her to see the purser on her way out but she persisted and then I told her to write a letter if she had an issue. I never gave her the #7's name. I tried to lend a sympathetic ear but I wanted to tell her that she was wrong for not asking for a bag to throw her stuff away and that someone was going to have to clean the plane and dig behind those seats to pick up all her trash. Also...why didn't she just ask the flightt attendant her name and leave me out of it. Anyways...she asked the purser for her name on the way out and he told her the same thing...write a letter to management. I would love to know how a supervisor would have handled this situation. Is she going to get advantage miles out of this? Who knows? I am just curious...what would you have done? If you were a manager...would you support the flight attendants actions as long as they were not rude?

This is where I jump in and simply ask why YOU couldn't have tried to defuse the situation that you felt was being construed incorrectly by a passenger?

One of the things that I can't figure out is why we are all trained the same way and FA's can solve the problems on a narrowbody but call the purser on a widebody?

Why couldn't you have, as Eolson mentioned, told her that you were sorry that she was so upset and asked her if she would rather have a bag to place her stuff in? You could have told her that you were unaware of how the interchange happened between she and the other crewmember but newspapers all over the floor pose a safety problem because they make the floor slippery like banana peels. It is one thing if the area in front of her seat has the trash around it but when the papers, or other garbage, transgress into the aisle the problems arise. This is particularly significant because she is seated in front of the exit row and every impediment by the exit could cause loss of life in an emergency situation.

Why take it to the next level? You should have shut her down and appeased her feelings of ill treatment at the same time.