Where Are We...
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
to: funguy2"
Ya know I have been trying to figure this out myself. I have been reading these board and seeing where on one hand we are selling assets ...... on the other hand we are going to get 60 more Planes. My head is spinning. I thought I was going nuts....knowing SOMETHING JUST DIDN'T COMPUTE. Thought it was my old age setting in.
Ya know I have been trying to figure this out myself. I have been reading these board and seeing where on one hand we are selling assets ...... on the other hand we are going to get 60 more Planes. My head is spinning. I thought I was going nuts....knowing SOMETHING JUST DIDN'T COMPUTE. Thought it was my old age setting in.
PITbull
Veteran
Fleazle,Fleazle said:
There are very few "protections" left in our contract. The sick bank access has been limited, LTD has been reduced substantially along with OJI injuries. Everyone has to focus on staying as healthy as possbile in order not to incur out -of-pocket medical expneses, or any work related injures. If those folks do, they will be walking a "tight rope" teetering on poverty and losing everything.
delldude
Veteran
usa320pilot comments:When considering management actions, I believe it's important to note David Bronner holds 51% voting power and is a very large United Airlines bankruptcy creditor, according to court records. He's a business man and he will not let labor get in his way of protecting his investment.
DELLDUDE REPLIES: can you supply any evidence of this huge investment bronner has made?my sources claim he holds some EETC's and thats it.can you show these court documents as i'm confused.
thank you...
DELLDUDE REPLIES: can you supply any evidence of this huge investment bronner has made?my sources claim he holds some EETC's and thats it.can you show these court documents as i'm confused.
thank you...
- Thread Starter
- #66
Delldude:
Much of the United bankruptcy information is available to the public for research.
Respectfully,
Chip
Much of the United bankruptcy information is available to the public for research.
Respectfully,
Chip
USA320Driver, and UseYourHead, etc:
I agree with most of what you are saying, but you are fighting a useless battle when trying to reason with "Pitbull", "Delldude", "700UW", "repeet", etc. For example, I'll cite one of Pitbull's recent posts: "Far best job you will ever have".....? Many of my peers don't see it that way. They don't even want to be "saved" on the furlough. They want out."
My question, which has not been answered yet, is if they want out, and don't even want to be saved on furlough, why not quit and get a "good" job? Why stay with a company that you obviously hate that wants to cut your pay when you deserve so much more? Am I missing something here? Please, enlighten me!
I have been furloughed from Airways for a little over two years(mechanic w/12 years). I used to talk the same talk these guys are talking. All I can say is that is a cruel world out there.
After furlough, I immediately went back to school while working fulltime! Believe me, you Naysayers haven't got a clue. The majority of the "good" industrial manufacturing jobs are gone, probably for good! Following on the heels of the Steel Mills and Textiles. This is only the beginning, IT jobs are next on the chopping block. All of this compliments of NAFTA, signed by a democratic president, whom the IAM touted as the next Messiah, mind you!
My point is this. Times have changed since the last time most of you looked for a job. Good jobs are few and far between. It was a reality check for me the first time I went to that unemployment office and people were lined up all the way around the building, just waiting to get in the door! Heck, I go to school with people working on their Master's degree who will be lucky to get a job making half of what you guys make.
So go ahead, bash me, tell me about how your buddies are making more than they were at Airways doing whatever, and how you don't want to prostitute yourselves out!
All I know is that for most of the people on here to be so feed up with Siegel and Airways, you sure spend a lot of time on this board, and know an awful lot about how the ATSB loans work, etc. My question again is a valid one. Why not quit? Beat the rush of employees and get that "good" job that you deserve. Why ride a sinking ship into the ground as some of you say? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! Of course, when you do get that job at Jet Blue, etc, making half of your salary now, and maybe a weeks vacation, you'll still be able to say "I didn't take anymore concessions, I showed them!"
I'm sure both Dave's will be devastated! So, now that I'm off my soapbox, let the bashing begin! I'm sure my question will still not be answered, except for a few wise remarks!
Anyways, to all of you Airways employees that do want the airline to suceed, I wish you the best! I know these are terrible times, but all we can do is vote our concience and pray that things will get better.
Now the peanut gallery is free to bash me as they wish. I think the sometimes the truths really hurts the most!
Regards
I agree with most of what you are saying, but you are fighting a useless battle when trying to reason with "Pitbull", "Delldude", "700UW", "repeet", etc. For example, I'll cite one of Pitbull's recent posts: "Far best job you will ever have".....? Many of my peers don't see it that way. They don't even want to be "saved" on the furlough. They want out."
My question, which has not been answered yet, is if they want out, and don't even want to be saved on furlough, why not quit and get a "good" job? Why stay with a company that you obviously hate that wants to cut your pay when you deserve so much more? Am I missing something here? Please, enlighten me!
I have been furloughed from Airways for a little over two years(mechanic w/12 years). I used to talk the same talk these guys are talking. All I can say is that is a cruel world out there.
After furlough, I immediately went back to school while working fulltime! Believe me, you Naysayers haven't got a clue. The majority of the "good" industrial manufacturing jobs are gone, probably for good! Following on the heels of the Steel Mills and Textiles. This is only the beginning, IT jobs are next on the chopping block. All of this compliments of NAFTA, signed by a democratic president, whom the IAM touted as the next Messiah, mind you!
My point is this. Times have changed since the last time most of you looked for a job. Good jobs are few and far between. It was a reality check for me the first time I went to that unemployment office and people were lined up all the way around the building, just waiting to get in the door! Heck, I go to school with people working on their Master's degree who will be lucky to get a job making half of what you guys make.
So go ahead, bash me, tell me about how your buddies are making more than they were at Airways doing whatever, and how you don't want to prostitute yourselves out!
All I know is that for most of the people on here to be so feed up with Siegel and Airways, you sure spend a lot of time on this board, and know an awful lot about how the ATSB loans work, etc. My question again is a valid one. Why not quit? Beat the rush of employees and get that "good" job that you deserve. Why ride a sinking ship into the ground as some of you say? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! Of course, when you do get that job at Jet Blue, etc, making half of your salary now, and maybe a weeks vacation, you'll still be able to say "I didn't take anymore concessions, I showed them!"
I'm sure both Dave's will be devastated! So, now that I'm off my soapbox, let the bashing begin! I'm sure my question will still not be answered, except for a few wise remarks!
Anyways, to all of you Airways employees that do want the airline to suceed, I wish you the best! I know these are terrible times, but all we can do is vote our concience and pray that things will get better.
Now the peanut gallery is free to bash me as they wish. I think the sometimes the truths really hurts the most!
Regards
Attachments
GeezLouis,GeezLouis said:
Which is it? Did you "immediately go to work fulltime" and to school or did you go on unemployment? You state both in your post.
In a previous post you state you do not work for Airways, in this post you say all "we" can do is vote our conscience which implies you are at Airways.
As for why people don't quit, most of what I am hearing is the senior employees are hanging on for severance, possible buyout and transfer to another carrier, and the ability to be eligible for unemployment while retraining or job hunting. Makes sense to me, to hang on to a job, however tenuous the employment future looks. I had several illuminating discussions Sunday during the football games with Airways people.
Have you given up work in the mechanic field? What do you do now and what are you studying?
Best wishes in your future employment.
Regards,
Art Vandelay
GeezLouis,GeezLouis said:
The answer is to get the other side of the story out. There are many silent participants, and to a degree, it is a disservice for only 1 side of the debate to be filled in by very unrealistic folks who only have negative things to say. I think the quote below is very telling, and was a reply to you post:
"From Art Vandelay
GeezLouis,
Which is it? Did you "immediately go to work fulltime" and to school or did you go on unemployment? You state both in your post."
The reason I reply to this here is; I currently fly fulltime, on reserve, live out of base, and go to school fulltime. I also have a family, and a 5 year-old child. I also have many other commints that probably add-up to more than an additional fulltime job. I do not understand how someone thinks they cannot go to school, or retrain for a different job and work fulltime. We do what we have to do in life if we are to suceed.
Then there is this response to A320:
"From 737nCH11
USA320pilot,
If you financial house is in order, then why are you even entertaining the thought of more concessions. If these guys can't make U function with what they have taken from your employee groups then I don't think they can ever make it work. Why are you thinking of prostituting yourself even further?"
737,
My financial house is in order too. The reason we are willing to do what it takes is because we have looked for jobs, are in school, we do know the realities of the marketplace. This job is still far better than the alternative, that is what is so sad about so many of these posts. These folks are in for a rude awakening when they go out there and get retrained, only to find what they had was far superior to where they ended up. We all ready know that. Lately I have been hearing...well America West pilot got a raise...Guess what, they still make far less than you! STARTING OVER will not be anywhere near where you are here.
"From Winglet:
And just how low are you willing for Dave to lower the bar before you tell him to stuff it, UYH?
As far as unemployment goes, most of these people have been working for a very long time...They deserve they're unemployment benefits for as long as it takes to find other comparable jobs/compensation. Given the crappy state of affairs in the country's employment situation, that's going to be a long time. "
Winglet,
They have been working a very longtime...And I haven't? Lets see, does 27 years in the airline industry count for anything? Who cares, being unemployed is being unemployed. My first choice is to not there.
I agree, we deserve unemployment. If that is where I end up, on unemployment, I will get a new job, a career, and move on...what I don't plan on doing is "taking a year off...paid by enemployment" pretending to look for work. I think it is very telling of the mentality here, if that is what our culture has bred.
Good luck to those types getting a good job, with an attitude like that, this will be the last good job you get. Here is warning, that kind of piss-poor attitude will not be concealed in an interview, they will read you like a bad novel and send you packing!
Have any of the Nay Sayers begun to look for work yet, begun to prepare for an interview, even attempted to apply at other places to work. You should consider doing that exercise, you may be transformed....
Which is it? Did you "immediately go to work fulltime" and to school or did you go on unemployment? You state both in your post.
In a previous post you state you do not work for Airways, in this post you say all "we" can do is vote our conscience which implies you are at Airways.
Art and UseYourHead,
I went to the unemployment office the same week I was furloughed basically to see if they would pay for me to go back to school. I was unemployed for about one month, then got a job making about one third of my salary and started school full time.
In a previous post you state you do not work for Airways, in this post you say all "we" can do is vote our conscience which implies you are at Airways.
Art and UseYourHead,
I went to the unemployment office the same week I was furloughed basically to see if they would pay for me to go back to school. I was unemployed for about one month, then got a job making about one third of my salary and started school full time.
delldude
Veteran
GEEZLOUIS:this bud's for you!
My question, which has not been answered yet, is if they want out, and don't even want to be saved on furlough, why not quit and get a "good" job? Why stay with a company that you obviously hate that wants to cut your pay when you deserve so much more?
who ever said we want out,luigi?i don't think those you've mentioned HATEtheir jobs.after many years of doing your job and living with the constant stigma of 'what if'..it,as you probably know now wears on you.yes it is a good paying job...for the time being.when and if the time comes,then a career change will be forthcoming.
Times have changed since the last time most of you looked for a job. Good jobs are few and far between.
last time i was in this boat,in the early eighties...i was a steel worker and believe me the world doesn't end with the loss of your job.yes i collected UC and went to school and retrained...yes it was aviation school...yes it was hard,yes my credit got screwed up..yes i stuck at it and it got better....yes there were no jobs then too.your situation is not unique and neither are the tuff times.
It was a reality check for me the first time I went to that unemployment office and people were lined up all the way around the building, just waiting to get in the door!
funny,i see you know how to use a computer....i applied online..never saw no UC office.as a matter of fact they set up a temp UC office and career change center at the PIT and CLT locals i believe.
All I know is that for most of the people on here to be so feed up with Siegel and Airways, you sure spend a lot of time on this board, and know an awful lot about how the ATSB loans work, etcso we have researched many things regarding our MEAN,EVIL,WICKED AND NASTY EMPLOYER
whats wrong with educating yourself about your situation?
because for one thing,all you and your layed off cronies have already beat us to the punch as far as jobs go.so we might as well ride it to the end.besides the pay isn't too bad for the work....besides..i love my job. :wub:
I'm sure my question will still not be answered, except for a few wise remarks! i gave it a shot...
Anyways, to all of you Airways employees that do want the airline to suceed, I wish you the best! I know these are terrible times
we all want it to suceed...its just the fact that our management hasn't done a good job of turning things around,luigi....you don't realize that by now?why then does it seem good old us airways is still a loser and for the most part the others are turning things around?whats the answer?i think its effective management with a vision and impetus to change and change rapidly.
Now the peanut gallery is free to bash me as they wish. I think the sometimes the truths really hurts the most!
we promose to be gentle,dear...last time ,luigi...i was out 3.5 years before i saw anything that was gainful and stable.i hope you find your nirvana sooner than i did.goodluck.
My question, which has not been answered yet, is if they want out, and don't even want to be saved on furlough, why not quit and get a "good" job? Why stay with a company that you obviously hate that wants to cut your pay when you deserve so much more?
who ever said we want out,luigi?i don't think those you've mentioned HATEtheir jobs.after many years of doing your job and living with the constant stigma of 'what if'..it,as you probably know now wears on you.yes it is a good paying job...for the time being.when and if the time comes,then a career change will be forthcoming.
Times have changed since the last time most of you looked for a job. Good jobs are few and far between.
last time i was in this boat,in the early eighties...i was a steel worker and believe me the world doesn't end with the loss of your job.yes i collected UC and went to school and retrained...yes it was aviation school...yes it was hard,yes my credit got screwed up..yes i stuck at it and it got better....yes there were no jobs then too.your situation is not unique and neither are the tuff times.
It was a reality check for me the first time I went to that unemployment office and people were lined up all the way around the building, just waiting to get in the door!
funny,i see you know how to use a computer....i applied online..never saw no UC office.as a matter of fact they set up a temp UC office and career change center at the PIT and CLT locals i believe.
All I know is that for most of the people on here to be so feed up with Siegel and Airways, you sure spend a lot of time on this board, and know an awful lot about how the ATSB loans work, etcso we have researched many things regarding our MEAN,EVIL,WICKED AND NASTY EMPLOYER
whats wrong with educating yourself about your situation?
because for one thing,all you and your layed off cronies have already beat us to the punch as far as jobs go.so we might as well ride it to the end.besides the pay isn't too bad for the work....besides..i love my job. :wub:
I'm sure my question will still not be answered, except for a few wise remarks! i gave it a shot...
Anyways, to all of you Airways employees that do want the airline to suceed, I wish you the best! I know these are terrible times
we all want it to suceed...its just the fact that our management hasn't done a good job of turning things around,luigi....you don't realize that by now?why then does it seem good old us airways is still a loser and for the most part the others are turning things around?whats the answer?i think its effective management with a vision and impetus to change and change rapidly.
Now the peanut gallery is free to bash me as they wish. I think the sometimes the truths really hurts the most!
we promose to be gentle,dear...last time ,luigi...i was out 3.5 years before i saw anything that was gainful and stable.i hope you find your nirvana sooner than i did.goodluck.
Dell Dude writes:
Why then does it seem good old us airways is still a loser and for the most part the others are turning things around?
Ah, excuse me! Are we reading the same news papers?
Link
Link
Times have changed bro! Lead, follow, or get out of the way!!!
P.S. - You may have filled out an unemployment application online, but that's just the beginning of a long, fuuuunnnn process! I just hope for the rest of my friends left at Airways, that you never have to find out! :unsure:
Regards,
Louis
Mission impossible: Here's the real reason the Big Six are dying
I greatly respect Joe Brancatelli, my fellow USATODAY.com Travel columnist. He's a brilliant writer, and right about most things. But we consistently disagree on one point: the real reason the Big Six airlines are failing.
Joe claims that the major carriers are dying because their fares are too high, fare structures are too complex, customer service is poor, management is inept and top executives have been fiscally irresponsible by taking too much compensation.
I'm a former airline executive, and I agree with Joe that the Big Six are dying — at least as they exist today. And I agree that many of the factors he cites are contributing to their demise. But I believe that even if all those issues could be solved, it would not save the big airlines.
The Big Six – American, Continental, Delta, Northwest, United, US Airways — were doomed by deregulation a quarter-century ago. Their cost structures are based on long histories, and deregulation opened the door to a new crop of airlines such as Southwest and JetBlue that were not saddled with the same burdens. The upstarts could charge lower fares and still make money. Deregulation created an uneven playing field that has forced the Big Six to deteriorate over time.
In fact, the Big Six used to be the Big 12, but names like Pan American, TWA, Eastern, Braniff, Republic and Western have vanished in bankruptcies or mergers since deregulation.
The survivors have cut wages, eliminated unprofitable routes, squeezed more seats into airplanes, laid off employees, cut back in-flight services and amenities, and devised complicated fare structures to extract every last penny out of the traveling public. And then when all that didn't work, they begged the U.S. government for handouts to help them survive.
But it hasn't been enough — and it never will be. For one, the Big Six have labor contracts that keep their costs higher than airlines that entered the market after deregulation. These newcomers can pay rock-bottom wages and set up work rules that favor the airline.
These airlines are called the Big Six because they provide comprehensive service across global networks. That means flying a wide variety of routes, some of them unprofitable, and employing several different types of aircraft to do it. Low-cost airlines, for their part, typically fly only on carefully selected, profitable routes. They operate a single type of aircraft to minimize training and maintenance costs.
The Big Six have started launching low-fare subsidiaries: Delta's Song, United's Ted. But for the Big Six to emulate the models of their low-cost competitors, they would have to change so much they would be unrecognizable. They would no longer be the Big Six.
I agree with Joe that there have been some egregious travesties in executive compensation, and other wasteful acts by managers of Big Six airlines at one time or another. This certainly has not helped their images or financial situations.
But even if Big Six management had been completely saintly over the years, the outcome would still be the same. The big airlines cannot survive in a two-tiered cost structure.
When a company is profitable, it's easy to spread the cheer, the way Southwest does. But when a company suffers continual losses, problems flow. As the Big Six began to cut service, customers became angry. As low-cost carriers began to offer $200 airfares, the public became enraged that prices had been so high for so long. And as the Big Six tried to make up for lost revenue, they alienated business travelers and fliers on noncompetitive routes by sticking them with high fares.
But unlike Joe, I can't really blame the Big Six for cutting service and manipulating airfares to charge whatever the market would bear. They had no alternative, if they wanted to try to stay in business. I'm not condoning their practices; I'm just saying that what they did was totally rational.
Only it hasn't worked. As the economy slowed and the crisis deepened, Big Six airlines alienated not only travelers but also their own employees, laying off thousands who had faithfully devoted their lives to those airlines for countless years. Many who still had jobs became bitter, and sometimes took it out on customers, making matters worse. Only one Big Six airline – Continental – made Fortune magazine's list of the 100 Best Companies to Work For this year, and it shed more than 1,000 jobs.
Please don't get me wrong. I am not defending the tactics of the Big Six, nor am I bemoaning deregulation. Deregulation of the airline industry has been a great boon to consumers, who have reaped the benefits of low airfares. The expansion of low-cost carriers throughout the world has increased the demand for air travel and made it accessible to many people who could not otherwise afford to fly.
Nor am I bashing the unions or employees of the Big Six carriers. These people want the same things as every other American – a decent job with decent wages and some job security. But we must recognize that deregulation created a situation where the old carriers and the new carriers could not peacefully coexist. And the result was an industrial earthquake that has shaken airfares, service and thousands of jobs.
Joe Brancatelli is correct that the Big Six are a dying breed. Some of the companies may survive, but not with their existing business models. And when they are gone, fares will be lower and probably less complex, amenities offered in the air will be commensurate with the price paid for travel, and many new jobs will exist at the low-cost carriers for airline employees who are willing to work for less. As a result, the public will arguably be better off – with the painful exception of the airline employees whose jobs were eliminated.
But change won't necessarily bring stability. We've already seen newer airlines, such as JetBlue, coming into the market with cost structures that are even lower than the original low-cost carriers, such as Southwest. More are undoubtedly waiting in the wings. We'll have to wait as well – to see if history repeats itself.
Read previous columns
Send David your feedback: David Grossman is a veteran business traveler and former airline industry executive. He writes a column every three weeks on topics of interest and concern to business travelers. E-mail him at [email protected].
this IS were most are going!!
I greatly respect Joe Brancatelli, my fellow USATODAY.com Travel columnist. He's a brilliant writer, and right about most things. But we consistently disagree on one point: the real reason the Big Six airlines are failing.
Joe claims that the major carriers are dying because their fares are too high, fare structures are too complex, customer service is poor, management is inept and top executives have been fiscally irresponsible by taking too much compensation.
I'm a former airline executive, and I agree with Joe that the Big Six are dying — at least as they exist today. And I agree that many of the factors he cites are contributing to their demise. But I believe that even if all those issues could be solved, it would not save the big airlines.
The Big Six – American, Continental, Delta, Northwest, United, US Airways — were doomed by deregulation a quarter-century ago. Their cost structures are based on long histories, and deregulation opened the door to a new crop of airlines such as Southwest and JetBlue that were not saddled with the same burdens. The upstarts could charge lower fares and still make money. Deregulation created an uneven playing field that has forced the Big Six to deteriorate over time.
In fact, the Big Six used to be the Big 12, but names like Pan American, TWA, Eastern, Braniff, Republic and Western have vanished in bankruptcies or mergers since deregulation.
The survivors have cut wages, eliminated unprofitable routes, squeezed more seats into airplanes, laid off employees, cut back in-flight services and amenities, and devised complicated fare structures to extract every last penny out of the traveling public. And then when all that didn't work, they begged the U.S. government for handouts to help them survive.
But it hasn't been enough — and it never will be. For one, the Big Six have labor contracts that keep their costs higher than airlines that entered the market after deregulation. These newcomers can pay rock-bottom wages and set up work rules that favor the airline.
These airlines are called the Big Six because they provide comprehensive service across global networks. That means flying a wide variety of routes, some of them unprofitable, and employing several different types of aircraft to do it. Low-cost airlines, for their part, typically fly only on carefully selected, profitable routes. They operate a single type of aircraft to minimize training and maintenance costs.
The Big Six have started launching low-fare subsidiaries: Delta's Song, United's Ted. But for the Big Six to emulate the models of their low-cost competitors, they would have to change so much they would be unrecognizable. They would no longer be the Big Six.
I agree with Joe that there have been some egregious travesties in executive compensation, and other wasteful acts by managers of Big Six airlines at one time or another. This certainly has not helped their images or financial situations.
But even if Big Six management had been completely saintly over the years, the outcome would still be the same. The big airlines cannot survive in a two-tiered cost structure.
When a company is profitable, it's easy to spread the cheer, the way Southwest does. But when a company suffers continual losses, problems flow. As the Big Six began to cut service, customers became angry. As low-cost carriers began to offer $200 airfares, the public became enraged that prices had been so high for so long. And as the Big Six tried to make up for lost revenue, they alienated business travelers and fliers on noncompetitive routes by sticking them with high fares.
But unlike Joe, I can't really blame the Big Six for cutting service and manipulating airfares to charge whatever the market would bear. They had no alternative, if they wanted to try to stay in business. I'm not condoning their practices; I'm just saying that what they did was totally rational.
Only it hasn't worked. As the economy slowed and the crisis deepened, Big Six airlines alienated not only travelers but also their own employees, laying off thousands who had faithfully devoted their lives to those airlines for countless years. Many who still had jobs became bitter, and sometimes took it out on customers, making matters worse. Only one Big Six airline – Continental – made Fortune magazine's list of the 100 Best Companies to Work For this year, and it shed more than 1,000 jobs.
Please don't get me wrong. I am not defending the tactics of the Big Six, nor am I bemoaning deregulation. Deregulation of the airline industry has been a great boon to consumers, who have reaped the benefits of low airfares. The expansion of low-cost carriers throughout the world has increased the demand for air travel and made it accessible to many people who could not otherwise afford to fly.
Nor am I bashing the unions or employees of the Big Six carriers. These people want the same things as every other American – a decent job with decent wages and some job security. But we must recognize that deregulation created a situation where the old carriers and the new carriers could not peacefully coexist. And the result was an industrial earthquake that has shaken airfares, service and thousands of jobs.
Joe Brancatelli is correct that the Big Six are a dying breed. Some of the companies may survive, but not with their existing business models. And when they are gone, fares will be lower and probably less complex, amenities offered in the air will be commensurate with the price paid for travel, and many new jobs will exist at the low-cost carriers for airline employees who are willing to work for less. As a result, the public will arguably be better off – with the painful exception of the airline employees whose jobs were eliminated.
But change won't necessarily bring stability. We've already seen newer airlines, such as JetBlue, coming into the market with cost structures that are even lower than the original low-cost carriers, such as Southwest. More are undoubtedly waiting in the wings. We'll have to wait as well – to see if history repeats itself.
Read previous columns
Send David your feedback: David Grossman is a veteran business traveler and former airline industry executive. He writes a column every three weeks on topics of interest and concern to business travelers. E-mail him at [email protected].
this IS were most are going!!
funguy 2, you are correct sir!
it is only time that U will be history and the thousands of employees will be in the bread lines as there are no jobs out there with the wages and benefits they currently enjoy.
it is only time that U will be history and the thousands of employees will be in the bread lines as there are no jobs out there with the wages and benefits they currently enjoy.
delldude
Veteran
GEEZLOUIS:duh..i wasn't aware the other 4 big guys were in BK...oh they took some losses and made changes and sure they are going to post some loss .but they're still treading water...unless you've failed to note,as i and others have indicated...U seems in a death spiral and it wasn't caused by the employees...U doesn't seem at all to even be begining to "turn"....UAL is looking good for their emergence and still has a lot of work to do.the other 4 legacy carriers are going to absorb some loss for sure but they didn't go running into BK and haven't yet.
so whats OUR excuse?we're still going down luigi.....we can't even tread water.
P.S. - You may have filled out an unemployment application online, but that's just the beginning of a long, fuuuunnnn process! I just hope for the rest of my friends left at Airways, that you never have to find out
TUESDAY-line 3,10:30am......been there done that...its old hat......hey if you choose the HANDOUT...i guess you have to wait in line...
so whats OUR excuse?we're still going down luigi.....we can't even tread water.
P.S. - You may have filled out an unemployment application online, but that's just the beginning of a long, fuuuunnnn process! I just hope for the rest of my friends left at Airways, that you never have to find out
TUESDAY-line 3,10:30am......been there done that...its old hat......hey if you choose the HANDOUT...i guess you have to wait in line...
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