More's the pity, nu? When we lose any input (except the personal bashing) on here, we're all losers. When we lose some as knowledgeable and authoritative as CTD's, it's definitely time to take stock. My knickers have been as hot as anyone's over some of the character assassination that's been the norm here lately and, as in anything else, when there's trouble I look to management. That's where the buck stops. Kyle, I know you're a busy man, with many other oars in the water, but I think you let things get too far out of hand in here this year. I'm reminded of the NHL when a referee like Andy van Hellemond makes a value judgement to let the 'boys' play until things get out of hand. To me, at least, the role of the referee, moderator, or manager is to arrest the negative momentum before it takes on the proportions of disaster, and when we start losing, for what I sincerely believe to be absolutely valid reasons, input from the likes of CTD (or, let's say, cap, blackmac, Charles W or grease monkey) we've really 'lost it.' I left here for a few months earlier on for quite similar reasons (and no, I don't think I'm any great loss - just one who cares about our industry) and I can't seem to marshall for myself arguments to stay on. Hopefully, if blackie can't retrieve his fumbled(?) ball, someone else will pick it up (as he's so often suggested) and take it across the line. In the meantime, let's try and keep it cleaner, gang, and Kyle, blow that whistle more often, won't you? See you at the bowser at sundown. B)