Who wants a merger with US?

[tom barry]

It's actually the eleventh busiest airport in the USA (by number of passengers) in 2011, behind ATL, ORD, LAX, DFW, DEN, JFK, LAS, SFO, PHX and IAH:

http://www.airports.org/cda/aci_common/display/main/aci_content07_c.jsp?zn=aci&cp=1-5-212-218-222_666_2__

Yes, it is the sixth busiest by number of aircraft movements, but that's irrelevant to the economic viability of a hub at CLT:

http://www.airports.org/cda/aci_common/display/main/aci_content07_c.jsp?zn=aci&cp=1-5-212-231_666_2__

CLT's deficiency is not the number of passengers - it's that too high a proportion of them are connecting passengers and not CLT O&D passengers.

As to the stat of airport movements, add together JFK-LGA-EWR, then you will come up with the busiest movement area in the World.
Just sayin'


Again(at the risk of repeating myself),........ "IF" one was to be able to cherry-pick the best of AA and the best of LCC, The result would be a hypothetical airline just as strong as DL or UA !

It IS what it IS !

 

[jersey777]

No matter if you put lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig.
NO to a US/AA merger!!!!

As a flight attendant I am actually warming up to the idea. I would take USAirs last contract offer to AA's disgusting term sheet any day. There is a lot of buzz going around that both the APA and the APFA have been talking to Phoenix and the other unions. My hope is that whatever the outcome, we get a better contract and this group of managers today at AA are all shown the door. The bad blood here is irreparable. Right now, I'll wait and see how all this pans out.

 

[737823]

But yet it is the sixth busiest airport in the nation.

You make this too easy.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

Jersey,
the APFA and US would like for you to think that an AA-US merger would make it possible for AA not to make the cuts that are going to have to be made. US would also like you to believe that what AA-US looks like now (or in AA's case post cuts) will be sufficient for the two companies to exist after a merger but that is a flawed assumption.
The only way that AA-US would work is if there are further cuts to eliminate even more capacity because US' financials are not sufficient to just plug in the restructured AA into US and come up w/ strong enough financials - US' own financial condition means they are looking at someone else to provide either the revenue advantages or for someone else to bear the cost cuts so US doesn't need to do it.
Do you not see that the reason why so many AA employees are not interested in US is because they don't want to allow their hard work in building an airline capable of generating revenues superior to AA or in taking those cuts to be used to subsidize US?
.
The absolute percentage of connecting passengers doesn't make or break a hub... that is precisely why ATL and SLC as well as CLT and previously DEN for UA have been able to exist. The issue is the costs that it takes to push all that connecting capacity through and the revenues that a carrier gets for all of that connecting traffic. US could solve its revenue problem tomorrow if it would pull out about 10% of its capacity - but it can't do that because it will only increase the gap between itself and stronger east coast players.
.
CVG, MEM, CLE, PIT etc were pulled down because the extra capacity they had in those hubs came via high CASM RJs which couldn't compete with better CASM mainline operations at larger hubs in the same region as well as stronger local markets.
Although US at CLT still has alot of RJ capacity, it is not terribly out of line with other hubs and CLT's low costs as an airport help.
.
What does matter is that CLT is overhubbed RELATIVE to other hubs that generate superior revenues... US can either continue to gnererate inferior revenues which will require lower pay for its employees - which AA people will be asked to subsidize in a merger - or that CLT will have to be right sized post-merger.
.
That is exactly what is happening to FL in ATL... they could justify the size of their hub even though it carried alot of low fare connecting traffic based on lower costs and the fact that ATL was FL's largest hub.
WN does strategically need an operation in ATL as big as what FL has operated esp. since WN is a higher cost operator. Thus, FL/WN combined going forward is smaller than it was when the merger was announced.
.
Beware of the fine print - as well as what isn't even in print but everyone knows will happen anyway.

 

[robbedagain]

WT if CLT is right sized can you explain about say PHL and DCA and PHX how they would play a roll in any kind of event of AA/US? ID imagine that PHL and DCA are the 2most profitable hubs we have not sure about PHX as SWA also has large scale ops there

 

[700UW]

You make this too easy.

Josh

Charlotte airport ranked 6th busiest in the world

Are you looking in the mirror?

 

[WorldTraveler]

WT if CLT is right sized can you explain about say PHL and DCA and PHX how they would play a roll in any kind of event of AA/US? ID imagine that PHL and DCA are the 2most profitable hubs we have not sure about PHX as SWA also has large scale ops there

The theory that is frequently bantered about here that DFW would become the dominant hub in the SW US is probably true. I am certain that DFW for AA is a much more profitable hub on a margin basis, perhaps even considering AA's current high costs, than PHX is for US.
The reality is that a combined US/AA on the east coast would become OVERHUBBED - with hubs/hubettes in JFK, PHL, DCA, CLT, and MIA. CLT is oversized in part because US doesn't have any mid-continent hubs so they are forced to carry trafic through CLT which would better flow over DFW. Those are all valuable local markets but you just don't need all of that connecting capacity. I don't have enough information to know which would be downgraded...but there would have to be capacity come out of the combined AA/US and those who fail to recognize that are setting themselves for a major rude awakening - that might well come after they have signed on the dotted line.

 

[737823]

Charlotte airport ranked 6th busiest in the world

Are you looking in the mirror?

CLT may have disproportionately more aircraft movements due to the fact that many flights are operated by RJs (which are operated by lower paid on sometimes non-union crews which you don't like). CLT has very little widebody and international carrier presence. No flights to Asia let alone Heathrow. You can prove just about anything with statistics, you're just selective on which metrics to use and factors to include/exclude.

Josh

 

[737823]

Hey 700UW, you have the name and contact info for the IAM shop steward at BOS? Shuttle aircraft was not sufficiently clean and both US Air and the union need to know. Is cleaning outsourced at BOS? I assume not given the condition on my flight today, contracted cleaners would do better.

Josh

 

[Hopeful]

Yet another article...
it seems that the NYC as a focus city is difficult to expand.....My money is on a merger with JetBlue when all is said and done....

http://beta.fool.com/tdalmoe/2012/04/11/future-amr-air/3516/?ticker=FAA&source=eogyholnk0000001

 

[wings396]

Jersey,
the APFA and US would like for you to think that an AA-US merger would make it possible for AA not to make the cuts that are going to have to be made. US would also like you to believe that what AA-US looks like now (or in AA's case post cuts) will be sufficient for the two companies to exist after a merger but that is a flawed assumption.
The only way that AA-US would work is if there are further cuts to eliminate even more capacity because US' financials are not sufficient to just plug in the restructured AA into US and come up w/ strong enough financials - US' own financial condition means they are looking at someone else to provide either the revenue advantages or for someone else to bear the cost cuts so US doesn't need to do it.
Do you not see that the reason why so many AA employees are not interested in US is because they don't want to allow their hard work in building an airline capable of generating revenues superior to AA or in taking those cuts to be used to subsidize US?
.
The absolute percentage of connecting passengers doesn't make or break a hub... that is precisely why ATL and SLC as well as CLT and previously DEN for UA have been able to exist. The issue is the costs that it takes to push all that connecting capacity through and the revenues that a carrier gets for all of that connecting traffic. US could solve its revenue problem tomorrow if it would pull out about 10% of its capacity - but it can't do that because it will only increase the gap between itself and stronger east coast players.
.
CVG, MEM, CLE, PIT etc were pulled down because the extra capacity they had in those hubs came via high CASM RJs which couldn't compete with better CASM mainline operations at larger hubs in the same region as well as stronger local markets.
Although US at CLT still has alot of RJ capacity, it is not terribly out of line with other hubs and CLT's low costs as an airport help.
.
What does matter is that CLT is overhubbed RELATIVE to other hubs that generate superior revenues... US can either continue to gnererate inferior revenues which will require lower pay for its employees - which AA people will be asked to subsidize in a merger - or that CLT will have to be right sized post-merger.
.
That is exactly what is happening to FL in ATL... they could justify the size of their hub even though it carried alot of low fare connecting traffic based on lower costs and the fact that ATL was FL's largest hub.
WN does strategically need an operation in ATL as big as what FL has operated esp. since WN is a higher cost operator. Thus, FL/WN combined going forward is smaller than it was when the merger was announced.
.
Beware of the fine print - as well as what isn't even in print but everyone knows will happen anyway.

Damn, you will go to any extend to convince anyone why this isn't a good idea. Another long winded post with hopes of heading a merger off at the pass. What's next, lobbying the creditors....congress?
Richard, is this you.

 

[700UW]

Hey 700UW, you have the name and contact info for the IAM shop steward at BOS? Shuttle aircraft was not sufficiently clean and both US Air and the union need to know. Is cleaning outsourced at BOS? I assume not given the condition on my flight today, contracted cleaners would do better.

Josh

If you knew anything Shuttle flights are cleaned by the Flight Attendants. The hubs have their cleaning outsourced. Cleaning has been outsourced since May of 2005.

Flight Attendants clean the short haul flight, ramp or a vendor does long haul.

Another lame attempt at trying to bash the union, when are you gonna learn?

Every time you do this you make yourself look even more ignorant.

 

[AAStew]

Has anyone questioned where the 3 Union leaders were last week? Heard they were in Phoenix.

 

[BoeingBoy]

If you knew anything Shuttle flights are cleaned by the Flight Attendants.

Only during the day's flying - the FA's don't do overnight cleaning. Technically, the FA's don't even do "cleaning" - they "tidy" the cabin by picking up trash and taking papers, etc from the seat-back pockets. To answer the question, instead of just trying to be insulting, it depends - first flight of the day, the overnight cleaners are responsible, during the day the FA's are responsible for "tidying" but not cleaning the cabin or lavs.

Jim

 

[700UW]

The RON cleaning is either done my a vendor or the ramp, it just depends on the station.

I flew last week from CLT-LGA and in CLT its a vendor. The plane was not clean, and it RON in DFW.

I took a shuttle flight at 3pm from LGA-DCA and the plane was not touched.

The FAs dont clean long haul or international.