Who wants a merger with US?

[AAviator]

I disagree, just because AA squandered the TWA merger, doesn't mean that any others will be the same. Different airlines, different routes, different management, and different times.

AA didn't squander the TWA assett purchase. It was a blunder. TWA was supposed to generate "synergies". They never materialized. They, like LCC had a non compatible fleet of 717's, 767-2' and 3's (Pratt powered)....

It was dream on paper.... Now look where we are, and how much of TWA remains... besides the employees.

Looking down the road wings, how does AA address JFK and the pacific with a LCC combination? In the world of international alliances, the addition of LCC will only hamstring a focus to correct those shortcomings to our network. -As said by more than a few......

 

[WorldTraveler]

AA didn't squander the TWA assett purchase. It was a blunder. TWA was supposed to generate "synergies". They never materialized. They, like LCC had a non compatible fleet of 717's, 767-2' and 3's (Pratt powered)....

It was dream on paper.... Now look where we are.

TWA was predicated publicly on the notion that AA needed more capacity in the midwest than ORD could provide.... no one factored in 9/11 which dramatically shifted demand to low fare carriers or the sustained increase in fuel prices which reduces demand... not sure anyone should have been expected to have forecast those events, either.
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What companies MUST do is adapt - and AA spent almost a decade waiting for other carriers to bring their costs up to AA's levels, die off, or unionize. And AA didn't do what it needed to restabilize the company after a number of events that no CEO or board could have predicted. Throw in a merger which wasn't unwould fast enough and that in part is why AA is in BK today... remember it limped along quite well for about 5 years doing reasonably well compared to its peers.
IN the meantime, the economy has not improved, fuel prices have continued to rise - and other carriers have merged and created viable platforms for long term growth.
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Unfortunately for AA employees, they will have to submit to another round of massive cuts to be able to salvage anything from AA - either as a standalone or if bought by someone else.
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The takeaway for this thread is that US is not where it needs to be financially to be long-term viable and thus AA employees who believe that US is a solution will have to go through another round of cuts by AA during BK and yet another at US after a possible merger.

 

[AAviator]

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The takeaway for this thread is that US is not where it needs to be financially to be long-term viable and thus AA employees who believe that US is a solution will have to go through another round of cuts by AA during BK and yet another at US after a possible merger.

Exactly.

LCC will offer the world, and possibly lots of equity in the new company to buy labor support.. Then, we'll have problems like we have now.. weakness in NYC, and problems in the Pacific. An additional hub network that LCC with bottom of the barrel compensation, barely makes work... So, get a raise (possibly) and watch it not work, then return to BK in two years.. To face pay cuts, and watch that "equity" evaporate in BK.

B)

 

[wings396]

First off, there is nothing out there that is going to address the Pacific for AA. I believe that JFK and PHL can survive as is. Neither city draws traffic from the other.

 

[Hopeful]

If union leadership is listening, perhaps it isn't that bad of an offer.

Yea, let's review the offer made by LCC to AA unions:

1) Continue pilot SCOPE and $1,000,000+ payouts to retiring pilots!
2)Keep ALL maintenance work inhouse and preserve 4300 M+R jobs
3)Keep 4000+ fleet positions
4)Keep flight crew hours flown to the least in the industry
5)save all 13000 jobs on the block!



YEAH!!!! RIGHT!

 

[wings396]

TWA was predicated publicly on the notion that AA needed more capacity in the midwest than ORD could provide.... no one factored in 9/11 which dramatically shifted demand to low fare carriers or the sustained increase in fuel prices which reduces demand... not sure anyone should have been expected to have forecast those events, either.
.
What companies MUST do is adapt - and AA spent almost a decade waiting for other carriers to bring their costs up to AA's levels, die off, or unionize. And AA didn't do what it needed to restabilize the company after a number of events that no CEO or board could have predicted. Throw in a merger which wasn't unwould fast enough and that in part is why AA is in BK today... remember it limped along quite well for about 5 years doing reasonably well compared to its peers.
IN the meantime, the economy has not improved, fuel prices have continued to rise - and other carriers have merged and created viable platforms for long term growth.
.
Unfortunately for AA employees, they will have to submit to another round of massive cuts to be able to salvage anything from AA - either as a standalone or if bought by someone else.
.
The takeaway for this thread is that US is not where it needs to be financially to be long-term viable and thus AA employees who believe that US is a solution will have to go through another round of cuts by AA during BK and yet another at US after a possible merger.

Richard, please.....
So you are implying that US will further cut the AA employees wages and bennies after a bk and a merger?
Get a grip already, you are so friggen focused on painting a bleak picture for AA that it is comical. I really want to know what your true motive is here. We have a person that claims not to work for the airlines, worships Delta, and has nothing positive to say about anyone other than Delta. Since Delta is on top of the world,,why are you so concerned about little old US, and a bankrupt AA?
Are you worried Mr Anderson?
All of your concerns with this make about as much sense as me being infatuated with a merger between Target and Kmart......

 

[wings396]

Me thinks that you are lobbying for Delta, and collecting some coin for doing so. Your long winded pro Delta crap could be nothing less.

 

[AAviator]

First off, there is nothing out there that is going to address the Pacific for AA. I believe that JFK and PHL can survive as is. Neither city draws traffic from the other.

AA has JFK-MAN, BRU, MAD, for a few, plus a carribean network that would pull traffic from PHL and CLT.. The german flying would drop due to loss of Star membership and would further weaken PHL. MIA is way under capacity, so to maximize the use of that assett, they would divert traffic through MIA for the carribbean. BTW, we'll be building MIA on our own as the new metal arrives, weakening PHL and CLT's international hub strengths.

IMO the only thing LCC would bring to the dance is DCA and LGA slots.

BTW, 737-800 deliveries jump to 3 a month from 2 a month in September. The 777-300's begin in 6 months. 2013, and 2014 show some pretty large deliveries with 737's A319's, A321's, 773's and 772's coming online.


Given the uncertainties, and obvious shortcomings of the coming LCC offer, you're not going to change my mind.. What LCC has to offer, ain't much, and will come at a price too high from a personnel and economic standpoint.

 

[737823]

I think a US combination would be the worst for AA employees as you'd end up giving three rounds of concesions-the RPA, bankruptcy, and a third time if the IAM prevails as the collective bargaining agent. The IAM will be giving extra concessions as gifts to the company.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

So, even though I'm really just a Joe Nobody, I am Richard Anderson by arguing against AA-US but all of these AA people don't represent their execs who also can see thru US' plan?
Whatever.
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Given the fact that US is not generating revenue on par with DL and UA, the two megacarriers whose club that US wants to join with an AA takeover, then it is absolutely obvious that AA employees will have to endure cuts in order to make the US network work - unless of course Parker is willing to sacrifice his own people in order to allow AA people to not have to take cuts.
One way or the other, the cuts will be made in a merger... he can't promise a billion dollars plus in cost savings and not expect some employees to be impacted.
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The simple reality is that US is in the weakest position to make a viable offer financially so the only argument they have is "we are the smallest and create the least antitrust issues"... as if that will win over the creditors.
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AMR and its creditors (whom AA mgmt has first responsibility to right now) will do what returns the highest amount to the creditors....
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And it doesn't change the fact that AA-US still doesn't solve major strategic issues noted above, including by others.
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Bottom line is the same as it was when US started talk of going after AA - and thus it is highly doubtful that US will be able to demonstrate that it can bring anything superior to the table compared to what AA can bring on its own.... or more succintly, US' interest in acquiring AA is alot more about saving US than AA.
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Creditors along with most everyone else can see through that.
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Did you miss the article that says AA execs are not terribly excited about a US deal or the overtures by US' leadership team?... perhaps you should focus your attention on convincing them.

 

[damajagua]

Trying to convince the US cheerleaders that US/AA deos not make sense is like
telling a kid that candy is not good for you. They keep beating the same old horse
how CLT and PHL are incredible hubs. How they will address AA defeicency
on the northeast. What they do not realized that US does not address AA
needs. it's probably impossible, becuase of anti trust issues, but a merger
with DL would create a powerhouse to be reckon with. Asia, europe,
Latin America would be locked in. The combined company could redeploy
resources to continue the build up of Africa and the middle east.
It would truly be a global airline. Am sorry but a second tier hub in the
south and PHL does not create a powerhouse. I understand why the US
people want a merger. But just because it makes sense to them it does
not have to make sense to AA. And the fact is that it doesn't.

 

[737823]

Trying to convince the US cheerleaders that US/AA deos not make sense is like
telling a kid that candy is not good for you. They keep beating the same old horse
how CLT and PHL are incredible hubs. How they will address AA defeicency
on the northeast. What they do not realized that US does not address AA
needs. it's probably impossible, becuase of anti trust issues, but a merger
with DL would create a powerhouse to be reckon with. Asia, europe,
Latin America would be locked in. The combined company could redeploy
resources to continue the build up of Africa and the middle east.
It would truly be a global airline. Am sorry but a second tier hub in the
south and PHL does not create a powerhouse. I understand why the US
people want a merger. But just because it makes sense to them it does
not have to make sense to AA. And the fact is that it doesn't.

Agree 100%. US Air is a trAAshy airline, and despite it's flaws AA is much better.

Josh

 

[wings396]

I don't really give a rats ### about AA. Always found most of thier people very arrogant. I will most likely be retired before a fully integraded merger ever happens anyway. Even on the balls of your azzes, you think you are great, good luck on that train of thought. Hell, most of your fsa jobs will be outsourced anyway. The outsourcing language that AA has proposed makes US look good.

 

[AAviator]

I don't really give a rats ### about AA

Then quit spending your waking hours cheerleading for a merger.

 

[jersey777]

I don't care who I work for I just care about retaining as much pay and quality of work life till I retire in 13 years. American airlines as an entity can disappear...frankly I am embarrassed to say I work for them...used to not be that way.