From the latest AA mgt proposal to the APA it is clear that AA mgt wants to be able to codesahre on RJ's outside the major hubs, AKA Horizon.[BR][BR]While AA has a deal with AK, so does NWA. I would look for AA to establish a closer deal with AK and Horizon.
Who will AA dance with.
- Thread starter FA Mikey
- Start date
You have to remember the primary reason this codeshare was created....to put a further strangle on US and UA. I don't honestly think DL, CO and NW were that keen on codesharing with each other, however all three carriers would like to see US wiped off the map. Codeshare's don't generally create a lot of new revenue, but they can steal revenue from other carriers.
KCFlyer
Veteran
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On 1/19/2003 12:05:17 PM flyhigh wrote:
So, if CO was going to give the seat for free to a OnePass member, they now actually get money for it. It all has to do with mapping the inventory from a revenue management perspective.
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So....the big "selling point" to the consumer (accrue those FF miles on your "airline of choice" while flying on a partner airline) in reality is a screwing - sorry, you can't use your OnePass miles for this trip, Delta just sold the seat... better luck next time...next player please.
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On 1/19/2003 12:05:17 PM flyhigh wrote:
So, if CO was going to give the seat for free to a OnePass member, they now actually get money for it. It all has to do with mapping the inventory from a revenue management perspective.
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[/blockquote]
So....the big "selling point" to the consumer (accrue those FF miles on your "airline of choice" while flying on a partner airline) in reality is a screwing - sorry, you can't use your OnePass miles for this trip, Delta just sold the seat... better luck next time...next player please.
KCFlyer,
DL does receive a benefit in your senario. As the selling a carrier, they receive a proceed. And in cases where the pax follows an itinerary tha crosses over networks, the selling carrier also receives a higher portion of the prorate to compensate for their sales costs. It's pretty regular to have this language in a codeshare/alliance agreement.
As for your belief that a 21 day advanced purchase ticker is a loss, I can say with great confidence that your assumption is incorrect. When a carrier sells a ticket on a partner, it pulls from worse inventory than the carrier would use on itself. So, for example, the lowest fare Delta will sell on an O&D will pull from approximately (that's a key word) CO's frequent fler level of inventory. So, if CO was going to give the seat for free to a OnePass member, they now actually get money for it. It all has to do with mapping the inventory from a revenue management perspective.
DL does receive a benefit in your senario. As the selling a carrier, they receive a proceed. And in cases where the pax follows an itinerary tha crosses over networks, the selling carrier also receives a higher portion of the prorate to compensate for their sales costs. It's pretty regular to have this language in a codeshare/alliance agreement.
As for your belief that a 21 day advanced purchase ticker is a loss, I can say with great confidence that your assumption is incorrect. When a carrier sells a ticket on a partner, it pulls from worse inventory than the carrier would use on itself. So, for example, the lowest fare Delta will sell on an O&D will pull from approximately (that's a key word) CO's frequent fler level of inventory. So, if CO was going to give the seat for free to a OnePass member, they now actually get money for it. It all has to do with mapping the inventory from a revenue management perspective.
IMHO,
AA doesn't need the domestic feed, they are patiently waiting for the opportunity to go after the old BA deal.
Domestic Route Structures:
It is strongly rumored that ALPA and APA have put ink to something important regarding AA/AE integration. Real time interoperability, control and the reduction in duplication of operational structures will reduce costs while improving efficiency. For M&E, the Ramp and Dispatch; the TWU already represents those groups with integration resolution already covered in the respective CBAs. That leaves the Flight Attendants to resolve integration, everyone else will be done.
International Route Structures:
DAL, CO, NWA and their linkages with foreign carriers; the U/UAL/Star allinace plus the anti-trust immunities both bring to the table will make turning down a "tweaked" AA/BA deal problematic.
Add to that statements by Carty, echoed by members of the Bush Administration, to the effect that the Chicago Treaty, Bermuda II, Fifth Freeedom rights and Cabotage limitations are products of a world that no longer exists and that artificial barriers to investment and ownership weaken the industry potentially requiring Government intervention(tax dollars) to continually prop up a regulatory scheme that is obsolete.
You have the ingredients for a transportation system that utilizes AA/AE domestically with an integrated system of AA/BA, and potentially others, internationally.
Who will AA dance with? I think she'll find a partner from "out-of-town."
AA doesn't need the domestic feed, they are patiently waiting for the opportunity to go after the old BA deal.
Domestic Route Structures:
It is strongly rumored that ALPA and APA have put ink to something important regarding AA/AE integration. Real time interoperability, control and the reduction in duplication of operational structures will reduce costs while improving efficiency. For M&E, the Ramp and Dispatch; the TWU already represents those groups with integration resolution already covered in the respective CBAs. That leaves the Flight Attendants to resolve integration, everyone else will be done.
International Route Structures:
DAL, CO, NWA and their linkages with foreign carriers; the U/UAL/Star allinace plus the anti-trust immunities both bring to the table will make turning down a "tweaked" AA/BA deal problematic.
Add to that statements by Carty, echoed by members of the Bush Administration, to the effect that the Chicago Treaty, Bermuda II, Fifth Freeedom rights and Cabotage limitations are products of a world that no longer exists and that artificial barriers to investment and ownership weaken the industry potentially requiring Government intervention(tax dollars) to continually prop up a regulatory scheme that is obsolete.
You have the ingredients for a transportation system that utilizes AA/AE domestically with an integrated system of AA/BA, and potentially others, internationally.
Who will AA dance with? I think she'll find a partner from "out-of-town."
AA is codeshare disadvantaged??? (according to flyhigh's post they are)
Here's a list of airlines (there may be more) I find in Sabre on whom AA currently has codeshare flights bearing AA* flight nimbers:
Latin America: LACSA/TACA, LAN Chile
Europe: Aer Lingus, Air Portugal, Finnair, Iberia, Swiss
Middle East/Africa/India: Swiss (via ZRH)
Asia: China Eastern, EVA Air, Japan Airlines
South Pacific: QANTAS
How does this leave AA at a disadvantage for "leverage" in any area of the world???
Here's a list of airlines (there may be more) I find in Sabre on whom AA currently has codeshare flights bearing AA* flight nimbers:
Latin America: LACSA/TACA, LAN Chile
Europe: Aer Lingus, Air Portugal, Finnair, Iberia, Swiss
Middle East/Africa/India: Swiss (via ZRH)
Asia: China Eastern, EVA Air, Japan Airlines
South Pacific: QANTAS
How does this leave AA at a disadvantage for "leverage" in any area of the world???
It would seem fair to me that AA should be able to obtain anti-trust immunity with BA and JAL to help it compete with the DL/CO/NW alliance to Europe and Asia. If this were to happen, I don't believe AA would need an additional domestic codeshare partner beyond .
No airline is an Island, or safe from the industry shake out. Who will be left standing? no one knows for sure. Just dont count AA out. There always 3 backup plans and we always seem to come out of the down turns 3 steps ahead of the rest.
Mike
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The three backup plans would be... Air Cal, Reno Air and... lets say it together, T W A
Mike
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The three backup plans would be... Air Cal, Reno Air and... lets say it together, T W A
How is AA codeshare disadvantaged? Domestic my good man, domestic! If you are East or West of DFW/STL/ORD you still need to get to the departure points of those partners (typically the big coast cities). CO/NW/DL have much more presence power to get you to departure points of partners than AA does at this point.
As for KCFlyer's point that DL sold the seat...isn't that what can happen already...if a paying pax comes along, there are less seats for free people...how is that bad for you getting a paycheck???
As for KCFlyer's point that DL sold the seat...isn't that what can happen already...if a paying pax comes along, there are less seats for free people...how is that bad for you getting a paycheck???
LGA Fleet Service
Veteran
KCFlyer
Veteran
[blockquote]
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On 1/19/2003 9:52:39 PM flyhigh wrote:
As for KCFlyer's point that DL sold the seat...isn't that what can happen already...if a paying pax comes along, there are less seats for free people...how is that bad for you getting a paycheck???
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Flyhigh - in selling the codeshare to the public, the airlines are marketing the fact that now you can earn FF miles on your airline of choice, even when flying a "partner" airline. In reality, when you go to redeem those miles, there is a greater chance that one of the "partners" just sold the seat you had been marketed. The screwing is for the customer, not the employee.
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On 1/19/2003 9:52:39 PM flyhigh wrote:
As for KCFlyer's point that DL sold the seat...isn't that what can happen already...if a paying pax comes along, there are less seats for free people...how is that bad for you getting a paycheck???
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Flyhigh - in selling the codeshare to the public, the airlines are marketing the fact that now you can earn FF miles on your airline of choice, even when flying a "partner" airline. In reality, when you go to redeem those miles, there is a greater chance that one of the "partners" just sold the seat you had been marketed. The screwing is for the customer, not the employee.
