Who Will Gamble On Us Airways?

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700UW

Corn Field
Nov 11, 2003
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Posted on Sun, Nov. 28, 2004

Who will gamble on US Airways?

Struggling carrier needs bailout from big investor

TONY MECIA AND STAN CHOE
Staff Writers

After his $360 million investment in US Air soured in the early 1990s, fabled investor Warren Buffett once joked, in reference to Kitty Hawk: "There should have been some capitalist down there shooting Orville."

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If Warren says to stay away... any chump know-it-all investors better head the warning.. Have you seen Warren's investment record lately?

Hell, Gangwal and Wolfe were both smart enough to jump ship, even smarter to leave with all that cash... Ouch.. wait those guys are my heros..
 
usair_begins_with_u said:
If Warren says to stay away... any chump know-it-all investors better head the warning.. Have you seen Warren's investment record lately?

Hell, Gangwal and Wolfe were both smart enough to jump ship, even smarter to leave with all that cash... Ouch.. wait those guys are my heros..
[post="204437"][/post]​

Cbviously Bronner ain't the brightest bulb in the chandelier. If he is such a great investor of the fine folks of Bama, why did he put his money here? How far is his Manhattan office building from Warren Buffet's? :eek:
 
firstamendment said:
Cbviously Bronner ain't the brightest bulb in the chandelier. If he is such a great investor of the fine folks of Bama, why did he put his money here? How far is his Manhattan office building from Warren Buffet's? :eek:
[post="204441"][/post]​
His Napolean complex took over for awhile.........
 
Cbviously Bronner ain't the brightest bulb in the chandelier
You mean DOCTOR Bronner...?

I doubt there is a diploma of an advanced degree or doctorate hanging on your wall, is there...? And I am just as wiiling to bet that your own investments have not been as successful as his have been over time.

But you just like to be abusive, dontcha...? Well, here is some right back at ya...

You have invested your own time, effort, and sweat into the very same company genius, does that make you even a dimmer lightbulb...?

Be nice, get nice in return...

As much crap as you people are willing to throw at the guy, you might want to consider that he could have just as easily acted like Gordon Gekko, and shut this place down and sold of the pieces a long time back. Same thing for Lakefield, do you think Mr. Wolf would have tried to restructure and save this place, or had a huge "airline yard sale" a long time back...?

It is easy to get focused on your own little part of "the scenery", but stepping baclk and looking at the big picture once and awhile can do wonders for your prerspective...
 
Rico said:
You mean DOCTOR Bronner...?

I doubt there is a diploma of an advanced degree or doctorate hanging on your wall, is there...? And I am just as wiiling to bet that your own investments have not been as successful as his have been over time.

But you just like to be abusive, dontcha...? Well, here is some right back at ya...

You have invested your own time, effort, and sweat into the very same company genius, does that make you even a dimmer lightbulb...?
[post="204654"][/post]​

Oh Rico, you DO love a fight. Mr. Bronner will be addressed as I feel, which is NO business of yours. Infact, if I didn't know any better, the way you write, one would think you were the old bonehead himself. I do not respect the man and will not call him anything that sounds as dignified as doctor.

And as far as what degrees I have, how the hell do YOU know? Infact I DO have advanced degrees. And as far as investments, on this decision he was NOT doing his homework. I don't even OWN any airline stock, besides what was crammed down our throats in what, concessions I or II.

And btw, Rico, what the hell is your beef and problem with me? You act as if you personally are effected by anything I have to say. If I am pushing a button somewhere, you may want to take a look at that. If not, then you are more then happy to push the ingore button for me. My feelings would NOT be hurt, but go ahead and keep abusing. We'll take it Mr. Bill....again.
 
I just fail to understand the "collapse cheerleaders" on here, you sorry suckers on one hand work for this place, but on the other hand you cherish anything that validates your pessimistic view that US Airways is doomed and anyone that had anyting to do with it is Moronic..

Kinda bipolar IMO

If you work here, if you fly here, and still want to see things fail, just to prove that your horrible attitude and pent up feelings of fustration were somehow "right", then I suggest you allow one of the many people who have been furloughted, that would like to return and make this place work take your place.

Pro-management, no, I am Pro-Rico.

But I also recognize that working with, and as part of a collection of people that want this airline be successful (rather than the lot that just wants to complain and endlessly cry) is what will provide for a better future. And we have to work with the investors and managers that we have to attain success.

THAT is reality.
 
Rico said:
I just fail to understand the "collapse cheerleaders" on here, you sorry suckers on one hand work for this place, but on the other hand you cherish anything that validates your pessimistic view that US Airways is doomed and anyone that had anyting to do with it is Moronic..

Kinda bipolar IMO

If you work here, if you fly here, and still want to see things fail, just to prove that your horrible attitude and pent up feelings of fustration were somehow "right", then I suggest you allow one of the many people who have been furloughted, that would like to return and make this place work take your place.

Pro-management, no, I am Pro-Rico.

But I also recognize that working with, and as part of a collection of people that want this airline be successful (rather than the lot that just wants to complain and endlessly cry) is what will provide for a better future. And we have to work with the investors and managers that we have to attain success.

THAT is reality.
[post="204662"][/post]​

And Rico, what you just said makes sense. That is why I pull out all I can to do my best. Have you ever been in my first class, limited service as it may be, to see how I even today go the extra mile? The shaking hands and thanking of our customers? Spending my own money on glow sticks to guide the way for our customers to the john on those redeyes on aircraft that are 100% dark? The true individual attention and kindness? I am sorry, at least for me, if you have only heard negative from myself, but I have grown to be distrustful to both investors and leaders. I don't think we at U alone are immune to those feelings.

You seem to forget that I and many others have learned to master the art of loving your job and hating the one's managing. If you think that is crazy, well, most of us have had years to become cynical and numb ourselves, many times, through jokes and laughing.

And you know, it should be about Rico for you and it should be about First for me. That's the most enlightened thing you have said. I and many others ARE working with our investors..by doing a hell of a job each day despite how I feel inside about the powers that be. Thats all I can do now, for everything else is out of our control.

But if you think I am going to show one ounce of respect to a man who has created the "capitulate or liquidate" mantra, well, that is NOT going to happen. I am not anti-management because I think they are scum. I think their growth decicions should be applauded. But it is a good thing these guys aren't nurses because they have NO bedside manner and I'm sorry fella, but you can't keep threatening like this man does and expect positive results.

I hope this gives you some understanding at least of me. I do love my job and have no problem giving to perhaps see these plans through, but I also know this is a business that is about senority and NO, I do not want to start all over at the bottom. I do so enjoy my job and BELIEVE me, I WOULD NOT stay here the way I feel if it weren't for the above mentioned. But until my dream job comes true I do and have cooperated with the powers that be, but I will not lie and say all the things I don't believe to please anyone here.

I hope U survives. I think most of us are just tired...ok? Maybe we SHOULD start a LET HER RIP b#### (good lord, it is said on prime time tv, moderator)thread. That way we can all get it out and discuss things more calmly.

I want to thank you for your last remarks as I understand more where you are coming from and I see that you can make statements that are thought provoking. And remember, Rico, most of us fall somewhere in the middle of Pitbull and our dear A320 captain. ;)
 
The ONLY reason that Bronner and gang haven't sold it off in pieces is that THERE'S NOTHING LEFT TO SELL! If there were another way to get his money back he'd be doing it! He isn't in this to be you're hero, Rico. The ONLY shot he has at getting ANY of his money back is to make this airline sellable in some fashion, and as soon as it is it will be. The M.O. hasn't changed in 3 years. Get some kind of investor (be it the ATSB, GE or whomever), threaten the employees that MORE cuts are needed, then drag it into court so that their flunky judge Mitchell will give 'em what they want. Just happened again last week, and I'm sure it will happen again. If there were EVER an airline that needed to go out of business it's this one, so I would anticipate it happening fairly soon, unless Bronner and gang AGAIN skirt the bankruptcy laws by using them as labor laws (which they aren't and were NEVER intended to be). I keep hearing all this crap about "growth plans", but just last week the company announced 26 MORE planes being parked over the next 3 years. SOME GROWTH!
 
The proposition facing Dr Bronner is this: Double or Liquidation. If he chooses to invest more, probably at least another $250mil... He would have to recoup $500mil in value to break even on his investment (I am excluding the leases, etc). Kind of a "double or nothing" scenario.

Except that nothing is really liquidation, which is something. He can probably recoup some of the original $240mil, but certainly not all of it (maybe 20% or about $50mil). However, if he invests more, he will only make a return should US Airways be successful, and it more than doubles in value (i.e. his stock in the post-BK US Airways must have a value of $500mil at some point for him to breakeven). In the event of another failure after more RSA investment... He would certainly lose all of the original $240mil + a great deal of whatever his next proposed investment would be.

I think the "double" scenario for Bronner is too risky... I look for RSA to lose its controlling stake in US Airways. The next question then is there another investor out there? Or does this lack of a move bt Bronner force liquidation, by virtue of the lack of other outside investors. Time will only tell on that.
 
Not to mention if Bronner (or TPG---anyone think it would have been different if TPG was the equity backer?) hadn't been there US Airways wouldn't have come out of Ch 11 the first time. Put all that money in, which kept a lot of people employed for another two years+, whatever happens now.

And this is a man you want to villify?

Rico said:
You have invested your own time, effort, and sweat into the very same company genius, does that make you even a dimmer lightbulb...?

[post="204654"][/post]​
 
vc10 said:
(or TPG---anyone think it would have been different if TPG was the equity backer?)
[post="204713"][/post]​

At least TPG had some airline experience (remember CAL's turnaround?) Maybe they wouldn't have taken 1 1/2 years (and a second bankruptcy) to decide that maybe the business model needed fixing. Unlike Bronner/Siegel/Lakefield who took 9 months to realize that plan A wasn't working and the next 9 months doing nothing but beating on labor for more concessions.

Jim
 
Invest in U????

Let's see . . . .

1. A depression in the airline sector.
2. Voracious competition in your market.
3. Numskull management
4. Very high costs, even after shredding employee compensation.
4. A raped employee workforce . . . and what's left of it is in the senior paygrades.
5. Very hostile employee morale and complete distrust of management
6. Incoherent fleet
7. Two years totally wasted under Mr. Seigel

Oh, yea, that's where I'd put my money. Better odds playing KENO in Vegas.
 
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