Will Joe Pa resign?

[Ms Tree]

You really don't know if following policy did squat, again a rush to judgement without proof. See fact is neither of us was there. So you don't know a blessed thing. It's amazing I have to refer back to Thomas Jefferson for a quote on this topic.

According to the grand jury report that you have not read, not reporting the suspected child abuse to the authorities is a violation of the child protective service laws.

School policy does not trump state law. If you see a kid being abused or are told of a kid being a bused, you call the cops. The fact that the school did not is BS in my opinion.

 

[eolesen]

I've read the grand jury findings. Twice.

Hindsight is a great thing, but the facts remain that the allegations reported to Paterno in 1998 were escalated for action.

For all he knew, the investigation revealed nothing of substance.

Frankly, it's not anyone's place to become a vigilante and take further action than the investigating authorities do.

I'd pay for a front row seat to Sandusky's first day in prison, and I could care less about Penn State or college football.

But Paterno's rights were severely trampled on here in the rush for the Trustees to perform damage control. It's too bad they didn't feel so pressured to take action in 1998...

 

[SparrowHawk]

I've read the grand jury findings. Twice.

But Paterno's rights were severely trampled on here in the rush for the Trustees to perform damage control. It's too bad they didn't feel so pressured to take action in 1998...

BINGO! Hold your cards we have a winner!

Where to start? How can there be "Damage Control"? What a bunch of skunks to throw Paterno under the bus in order to save their own asses. Just goes to show you that no matter how good you do your job or how well respected you are in the community you can be thrown under the bus for political gain. What a crock of bovine fecal matter!

 

[delldude]

I've read the grand jury findings. Twice.

Hindsight is a great thing, but the facts remain that the allegations reported to Paterno in 1998 were escalated for action.

For all he knew, the investigation revealed nothing of substance.

Frankly, it's not anyone's place to become a vigilante and take further action than the investigating authorities do.

I'd pay for a front row seat to Sandusky's first day in prison, and I could care less about Penn State or college football.

But Paterno's rights were severely trampled on here in the rush for the Trustees to perform damage control. It's too bad they didn't feel so pressured to take action in 1998...

Did you notice they canned Joe but to two who were told and looked the other way are still on the payroll and getting PSU to defend them? At least they were the last time I looked.

 

[Ms Tree]

I've read the grand jury findings. Twice.

Hindsight is a great thing, but the facts remain that the allegations reported to Paterno in 1998 were escalated for action.

For all he knew, the investigation revealed nothing of substance.

Frankly, it's not anyone's place to become a vigilante and take further action than the investigating authorities do.

I'd pay for a front row seat to Sandusky's first day in prison, and I could care less about Penn State or college football.

But Paterno's rights were severely trampled on here in the rush for the Trustees to perform damage control. It's too bad they didn't feel so pressured to take action in 1998...

So you are saying that if you were head coach and you reported to your superiors that someone saw a staff members molesting a child that you would not follow up with the police to see if there was an investigation? Paterno should have called 911. He did not. He is guilty. Anyone else who know also should have called 911. Anyone who did not is also guilty and should be punished. That does not make the rest who are complicit innocent or less guilty. The fact that they are all trying to save their pathetic little children's game at the expenses of the children who were molested and possible raped is all the more vile.

 

[SparrowHawk]

So you are saying that if you were head coach and you reported to your superiors that someone saw a staff members molesting a child that you would not follow up with the police to see if there was an investigation? Paterno should have called 911. He did not. He is guilty. Anyone else who know also should have called 911. Anyone who did not is also guilty and should be punished. That does not make the rest who are complicit innocent or less guilty. The fact that they are all trying to save their pathetic little children's game at the expenses of the children who were molested and possible raped is all the more vile.

What is Joe Paterno guilty of?

I'm NOT aware of any indictment much less a trial with a guilty verdict. Also what statute in the PA State Criminal code? I looked and had great difficult finding anything in the code that applies, though I'm not finished. Part of the law is very clear regarding reporting any incident of Child Abuse and even if you apply the broadest application Joe Pa exceeded his legal obligation to report.

§ 16.102. Suspected child abuse—mandated reporting requirements.

(a) General rule. Under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6311 (relating to persons required to report suspected child abuse), Board regulated practitioners who, in the course of their employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall report or cause a report to be made to the Department of Public Welfare when the Board regulated practitioners have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse.

(B) Staff members of public or private agencies, institutions and facilities. Board regulated practitioners who are staff members of a medical or other public or private institution, school, facility or agency, and who, in the course of their employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall immediately notify the person in charge of the institution, school, facility or agency or the designated agent of the person in charge when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse. Upon notification by the Board regulated practitioner, the person in charge or the designated agent shall assume the responsibility and have the legal obligation to report or cause a report to be made in accordance with subsections (a), (c) and (d).

Everyone seems out of their mind upset on this yet no one seemed to mind Tom Osborne, Former head coach at Nebraska allowing Lawrence Phillips to play when he had something like 3 felony charges pending. for domestic Violence and sexual assault. Not to mention two other star athletes playing with pending criminal charges. NO! In that case Tom Osborn resigned a few years later and was elected to Congress and was getting about 10K an appearance at various speaking engagements. Of course he was busy wrapping all of his over looking felonious actions by his players in the Bible preaching forgiveness, Family values and faith. How does one spell hypocrisy? NOW to add insult to injury Tom Osborne is back at Nebraska as Athletic Director.

Joe Pa is "Old School" and IMO he will go gracefully into the sunset as a true gentleman should. Frankly I wish he'd sing like a canary because there is something else afoot here. I have no proof but I smell a big fat cheese eatin' rat here and it's not Paterno or even Sandusky. Sandusky is likely guilty and if so then he has enough problems of his own as his time in prison will be most unpleasant. This of course assumes that he is indeed guilty. You don't fire the head coach for turning a blind eye (which he didn't) after 61 years unless you're hiding something. It looks to me like the entire Athletic Department up to and including the Board of Trustee's are up to their ever loving eyeballs and firing Joe Pa takes the spotlight off of them and unfairly puts it on a sports icon.

 

[eolesen]

So you are saying that if you were head coach and you reported to your superiors that someone saw a staff members molesting a child that you would not follow up with the police to see if there was an investigation? Paterno should have called 911. He did not. He is guilty. Anyone else who know also should have called 911. Anyone who did not is also guilty and should be punished. That does not make the rest who are complicit innocent or less guilty. The fact that they are all trying to save their pathetic little children's game at the expenses of the children who were molested and possible raped is all the more vile.

I had an acquaintance from church murdered once. I called the Houston police to find out if there was an investigation. They refused to tell me anything because I was not a party to the investigation.

"Paterno should have called 911" is an easy thing to say from an armchair, but you have no idea what the law required of him, and frankly, I doubt he knew what to do. The guy was in his 70's, and had been dealing with young adults, not pre-teens. Even if there was a reporting law in place at the time for school teachers, I seriously doubt anyone at a university athletic department would have known about it.

It's easy to say common sense, but you weren't there, Tree, and the PA AG has already said no laws appeared to have been broken by Paterno. And the grand jury didn't hold him accountable either.

I know, it was hero worship... 🙄

 

[Ms Tree]

I had an acquaintance from church murdered once. I called the Houston police to find out if there was an investigation. They refused to tell me anything because I was not a party to the investigation.

Fine then you contact the president of the school or the head of school security or even the schools legal team.

"Paterno should have called 911" is an easy thing to say from an armchair, but you have no idea what the law required of him, and frankly, I doubt he knew what to do. The guy was in his 70's, and had been dealing with young adults, not pre-teens. Even if there was a reporting law in place at the time for school teachers, I seriously doubt anyone at a university athletic department would have known about it.

You're kidding right? Geez I hope your kidding. If I see a child being molested or am told of a child being molested I call the cops. The only delay will be in finding my phone or any available phone. I do not need a reporting law or anything else to tell me that calling 911 would be the right thing to do.

It's easy to say common sense, but you weren't there, Tree, and the PA AG has already said no laws appeared to have been broken by Paterno. And the grand jury didn't hold him accountable either.

I know, it was hero worship... 🙄

From what I have heard he and several other should have been. The fact that they were not does not mean anything till an explanation is given. So far all I have seen is a bunch of CYA.

 

[delldude]

From Pa Child Protective Services Law Sec 55

REPORTERS

§ 3490.11. Reporting suspected child abuse.

(a) A person may make a report of suspected child abuse to ChildLine or a county agency if the person has reasonable cause to suspect that a child has been abused. Reports shall be accepted by ChildLine or the county agency regardless of whether the person identifies himself.

(B A person other than a school employe having reasonable cause to suspect that a school employe has committed student abuse may report the suspected abuse to the school administrator as required by § § 3490.151(c) and 3490.152(a) and (c) (relating to required reporting; and responsibilities of administrators and school employes).

Source

The provisions of this § 3490.11 adopted December 20, 1985, effective January 1, 1986, 15 Pa.B. 4547; amended July 2, 1999, effective July 3, 1999, 29 Pa.B. 3513. Immediately preceding text appears at serial page (236832).

SCHOOL RESPONSIBILITIES

§ 3490.151. Required reporting.

(a) A school employe who has reasonable cause to suspect, on the basis of professional or other training and experience, that a student coming before the school employe in the employe’s professional or official capacity is a victim of serious bodily injury or sexual abuse or exploitation by another school employe, shall immediately notify the administrator of the alleged abuse or injury.

(B When a school employe learns of suspected student abuse from another person, the school employe shall notify the administrator of the alleged student abuse if the school employe has reasonable cause to suspect, on the basis of professional or other training and experience, that the student is a victim of serious bodily injury or sexual abuse or exploitation by a school employe.

(c) If an administrator learns of suspected student abuse from another person, the administrator shall make a report of suspected student abuse as required by this subchapter.

Cross References

This section cited in 55 Pa. Code § 3490.11 (relating to reporting suspected child abuse); and 55 Pa. Code § 3490.143 (relating to definitions).

There's other sections also relating to criminal and so on.

Pacode.com

 

[delldude]

Fine then you contact the president of the school or the head of school security or even the schools legal team.


You're kidding right? Geez I hope your kidding. If I see a child being molested or am told of a child being molested I call the cops. The only delay will be in finding my phone or any available phone. I do not need a reporting law or anything else to tell me that calling 911 would be the right thing to do.


From what I have heard he and several other should have been. The fact that they were not does not mean anything till an explanation is given. So far all I have seen is a bunch of CYA.

You are correct

 

[Ms Tree]

Scary day when the National Review agrees with me. OH well. When you're right you're right.

 

[delldude]

Scary day when the National Review agrees with me. OH well. When you're right you're right.

When you're right your right??

Coming over Pal? 😛

 

[eolesen]

I get it... Paterno should have simply kept screaming fire until he got action, just like the birthers do...

I know the concept of putting your faith in a higher authority doing its job is foreign to you, Tree, but some people really do believe that once something is reported, it's acted on when justified. Paterno's generation didn't exactly question authority at every turn like everyone born from 1950 onward seems to.


The PA code quoted by Dell is interesting, but "school teachers" typically applies to K-12 teachers and staff who are certificated to working with minors. Applying it to university staff is convenient for the sake of argument, but in practice, I don't think anyone is applying the statute the same way you guys are; otherwise, the grand jury would have been justified in taking action against anyone on staff with the university, including the graduate assistant who didn't call the police.

I can see one outcome of this being some universities pulling the plug on minors using their facilities...

 

[jimntx]

They were just talking about this on CNN this morning. Unfortunately, people as a rule do NOT get involved. There have been tests to prove this. A lot of people will say "If I witness child abuse/sexual attack/racial discriminaton/whatever, I will contact the proper authorities or intervene myself." Situations were set up with actors for such events. The same people who made the above statement, did not contact anyone or intervene when confronted with a situation.

 

[delldude]

I get it... Paterno should have simply kept screaming fire until he got action, just like the birthers do...

I know the concept of putting your faith in a higher authority doing its job is foreign to you, Tree, but some people really do believe that once something is reported, it's acted on when justified. Paterno's generation didn't exactly question authority at every turn like everyone born from 1950 onward seems to.


The PA code quoted by Dell is interesting, but "school teachers" typically applies to K-12 teachers and staff who are certificated to working with minors. Applying it to university staff is convenient for the sake of argument, but in practice, I don't think anyone is applying the statute the same way you guys are; otherwise, the grand jury would have been justified in taking action against anyone on staff with the university, including the graduate assistant who didn't call the police.

I can see one outcome of this being some universities pulling the plug on minors using their facilities...

I ran 'Pa child abuse reporting' on google and one thing came up regarding nursing and nursing schools then the other which I posted. Both were pretty much the same.I couldn't find anything specific but the victims were minors and what I posted was regarding Child Services.....I suppose the situation isn't exactly as in the code but none the less Child Svc's it looks like wrote the reporting requirements.

There was a link on Drudge where due to a law passed in 2008, PSU probably won't be liable due some deal cut with legislators.....little corruption may save their butt.