WOs...RJs/Sjs

[algflyr]

The Dash 8 is no doubt a great airplane. A few corrections though, at least on the Allegheny Dashes:
The max speed is 242 KIAS, not 230
The engines (PW120A) produce 1,800 SHP each (they uptrim to 2,000 SHP)
The average empty weight is usually around 23,500#, so with a Max gross wt of 34,500#, that leaves about 11,000# for fuel and pax/cargo. Thats about half it''s empty wt, certainly not double.
I agree it''s a great plane and fun to fly!

 

[flyin2low]

The D328''s are being replaced by CRJ''s = Canadair Regional Jets, not "lawn darts".

 

[WO/drone]

Most Allegheny Dash-8 have PW121 engines, 2100 to 2200 shp, although some have the 120s. Empty weight is for weight and balance about 19000lbs, operational empty weight is higher, crew, full galley, paperwork, magazines, crew baggage etc. Max gross take off weight approaches 38000lbs. Operational considerations, fuel, baggage, # of pax, cargo, and the always popular extra weight of the reinforced cockpit door, lower that. And how an operator runs their weight and balance program will effect operational weights. Bare aircraft weight, and the certified gross can be different than operational. It has been a good workhorse for Airways. Glad there are pilots that can appreciate it for what it is. Luck to all!! Would anyone like a restored Beech17 staggerwing? One is available in central Pa now, 400hours since rebuild.

 

[aj04878]

(A) When will the first W/O Jet be delivered?
(B) How many EMB 170s are expected to be operated by a mature MDA?

 

[airbrush]

Got to agree with the comments on the DASH-8. Although we at Allegheny have had some problems with reliability lately, it seems to have more to do with the availability of parts when and where we need them than with the aircraft itself. Overall, it has been a workhorse for us for over 10 years, and is a great improvement over the Shorts 360/330 and the Beech 1900. I think it is perfect for many of the short, low routes we fly in the northeast (ABE-PHL, MDT-PHL, ITH-PIT,) and some longer ones (BUF-BDL, SYR-BOS, LGA-BTV), and I personally wish we could upgrade to a fleet of -200s, -300s, and -400s. I get a little weary of the "expert passengers" (no offense to anyone on this board), who, armed with the latest sensationalist "20/20" expose, decide that anything spinning a prop is unsafe. What they don''t know is that jets burn more fuel on those short, low segments, can''t go high enough to gain any speed advantage, require longer runways, and could lead to some small communities losing ANY form of scheduled air service. I think the manufacturers and airlines alike need to do a better job of marketing, emphasizing and enlightening the traveling public on the advantages of maintaining turboprop service on certain routes. Sure, small jets have some advantages on longer routes, and they are generally quieter and smoother to ride in. But the current trend is to let the ignorant pax (not saying STUPID, just uneducated on the facts) set the agenda with their perceptions, regardless of reality or advances in technology that make turboprops a viable machine.
Not ranting; just my two cents from 17 years in the airline dispatching business.

 

[WO/drone]

I have to agree, the indusrty as a whole has done little or nothing to educate the flying public on routes and aircraft types. We go out of our way to get people to their destination and when mechanical things go wrong, as they aleays will do, now and forever, we sometimes get the short end. But you know,we come back the next day and give it the best we can, again. Take the good with the bad, bitter with the sweet. Luck to everyone!!

 

[fr8tmastr]

some new 200''s supplemented with some 400''s would be great. The 400 is an amazing aircraft. anything within a 500 mile stage lenght the 400 is within 10 mins. of an RJ. with the noise attenuation its just as quiet, a fraction of the fuel of an RJ, has a cabin you can actually stand up in, enough overheads to actually be of use, and a common type rating with the other Dashes. Yea, the 400 is perfect for the job and makes great sense. However, making sense goes against corperate policy so we would never see any at U.

 

[N786P]

The public is NOT interested in being told the postive points of fuel savings ect...on the Dash 8''s, they DO NOT enjoy the noise,viberation,slow speeds, the bouncing around the sky, ect... I hear it everyday!! Forget the rubber on the wings, and the egg beaters....time to move on!! You die hard Dash folks!! Time moves on, get with it or get left behind look whats happening to PDT and ALG, there fleet is getting smaller with no talk of new training or equipment to replace the dash, only empty promises from M/L on the future, better make your own future!!!!

 

[flyin2low]

N786P says "better make your own future!!!!"


Did you hear that JAX Mx is closing in April ? Look in the mirror.

 

[smfav8r]

----------------
On 3/21/2003 8:30:40 AM N786P wrote:

The public is NOT interested in being told the postive points of fuel savings ect...on the Dash 8''s, they DO NOT enjoy the noise,viberation,slow speeds, the bouncing around the sky, ect... I hear it everyday!! Forget the rubber on the wings, and the egg beaters....time to move on!! You die hard Dash folks!! Time moves on, get with it or get left behind look whats happening to PDT and ALG, there fleet is getting smaller with no talk of new training or equipment to replace the dash, only empty promises from M/L on the future, better make your own future!!!!

----------------​

What do you mean the public is not interested....how do you think the regional jet craze came about...public perception!!!! Let''s recap: In the early to mid 90''s there were a series of turboprop crashes, not to mention Valuejet in MIA.
Good Ole "Scary Mary" (remember her) put the fear of god into John Q Pax that props are unsafe as are the small discount carries...she want on and on about Tombstones and the FAA....Anyway, for the majors, this "problem" was solved by the RJ and it killed two birds with one stone....jets with MUCH lower labor cost and direct competition with discount carriers in small markets. As for pax complaining....that''s all they do....they want first class coast to coast for 29.99....and if someone offers 19.99, they will fly them instead! In short haul market....I''d ride a Dash anyday over an RJ!!!!!

 

[smfav8r]

Sorry Pineybob....but you took my comments out of context...When I said complaning Pax, I was refering to the customers who will complain just to complain....sorry to say, but there are way too many people in the world who are never happy!!! Unfortunetly it''s the 10% that create the most havic!!!!
My point was, props are unrightfully considered unsafe from events and media coverage that happened close to 10 years ago.....hence the RJ craze!!!!
And as for me, my job security has gone up 10 fold, after the big furlough, I got a job flying freight!!!

 

[WO/drone]

For Pineybob, not all pax are complainers, but they are the ones that seem to get the media coverage. Just like plane crashes. No one in the big, biased media cares that at Airways 90% of the schedules flights are small prop and small jet service and that with much more daily cycles, almost all regional carriers have pretty good records. Besides guys don''t slower aircraft with lower wing loading glide better? Just a thought. The big bosses pick em, we will fly them and fix em!!!!!!

 

[flyin2low]

"Besides guys don''t slower aircraft with lower wing loading glide better? "

Actually any jet aircraft has better glide ratio than a prop. They just don''t stay up as long. It''s all about L/D. The prop enjoys a leasurely 150 kts glide and the jet a 230 kts glide. But in distance covered, the jet will cover more in the end.....

 

[fr8tmastr]

N786P, I think you missed my point in your prop bashing. The 400 is more quiet than a DC-9(as a result of active noise cancellation) The vibrations are very low as well active vibration damping and rubber mounted overheads, and it cruises at 350kts. In any kind of shorthaul leg up to 400 miles the time diff. is 5 min or less. My point is, if people actually knew how advanced the new generation is, and all the "experts" would learn also, the perception of the T-Prop might change. Granted there will always be the ones that see a prop and have a coronary but you cant win em all. Just a thought why do the people that hate t-props and think they are unsafe, have no problems with helecopters?

 

[N786P]

I know that the props have there place on the aviation tree, but the bottom line is "most" of the flying public does''nt like to fly on them. As far as the choppers go, I really do''nt think the public as a whole flys them alot so its not an issue, sure in the NYC area maybe and at vacation spots, but not as a regular mode of transport. If you look on a daily basis, and look at the number of xld. flights that PDT, ALG, PSA, have due to mechanical problems vs. the number at M/L for the number of A/C they operate,you''ll see my point on the props vs. jet A/C on percentage of flight completions due to mechanical problems. I hope the wholly owned carriers at U get the jet equipment as promised by U, or they will have their flight lines reduced even more as soon as the contract carriers, or MDA can provide the jet equipment. It''s anyones quess or spin at this point, but in time we''ll see which way the cards fall in due time.