Kev3188
Veteran
Like I said, they'll probably just breathe a sigh of relief. With lower numbers, and an ever increasing workload for those that remain, every little bit helps...
There is no "if" about it.
5TH week vacation coming back?
- Thread starter face
- Start date
Like I said, they'll probably just breathe a sigh of relief. With lower numbers, and an ever increasing workload for those that remain, every little bit helps...
There is no "if" about it.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #227
then can you help us understand the staffing levels per flight at MSP relative to other cities? I'm not doubting your information, just trying to put it into perspective.
Kev3188
Veteran
In aggregate, MSP is already one of the "leanest" hubs staffing-wise...
metopower
Veteran
- Nov 28, 2006
- 932
- 313
Kev MSP is a historical NW hub.When I fly through there I find it to be the busiest most bustling hub that DL has.What are the efficientcy numbers? On time ,baggage misconnects,pass misconnection etc? I'm always handled well, on time great agents above and below No problems but weather. Wish I could say the same for ATL.Could it be that this base is just more efficient and is penalized be cause just being better? Do you know the rankings of each hub verses the others ? And may that have a correspondence to the reason for the Smaller population? I would bet that ATL has the highest population on the ramp and the lowest metrics.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #230
Meto,
no, DL is not punishing MSP for being efficient. It has been a well-run hub for years, long before DL put its name on it. And I would disagree that weather plays much of an issue compared to other hubs, including ATL; DTW and MSP have consistently had better on-time numbers than other hubs. Yet, statistics show that all of DL's hubs are running very high on-time numbers.
In Sept, the best performing airports for OT were MSP with 90.1%, DTW with 89.3%, SLC with 89.3%, DFW with 87.6%, and ATL with 87.5%. Those are numbers for all flights on all carriers but DL's hubs are operationally very strong with LGA and JFK weaker than the interior hubs; still DL's operations at LGA and JFK usually have better on-time than for other carriers at the same airports.
Kev may have bag misconnect data by city but I doubt if he would post it online since it is not public information. Misconnect rates are likely even more proprietary.
ATL may feel like a zoo but it largely because the buildings were not designed to handle anywhere the amount of passengers that DL puts thru them. I would love to see better facilities for DL in ATL but it simply will never happen.
What does affect staffing is the number of passengers and to a greater extent the amount of revenue that DL pushes thru a city.
ON that basis, for the month of June, the last full month that DOT statistics for domestic and int'l were available, DL boarded on average 94,000 passengers on DL and DCI flights at ATL. DCI numbers are important because DL handles DCI in ATL. IN contrast, at MSP, DL boarded 23K passengers per day on DL mainline flights. Since DL does not handle DCI flights (at least below wing), it is relevant to look only at the boardings for DL handled flights. DTW is actually slightly lower than MSP. However, DL has far more int'l flights at both ATL and DTW than they do at MSP. ATL has one of the highest average aircraft sizes of any hub in the US which adds a "zoo" factor to the operation, including having passengers spilling into the hallways at boarding time. Incidentally, the same type of "feel" exists at many domestic AA gates at DFW. DTW is the most customer friendly airport on DL's system when it comes to space. Too bad DL can't put the A concourse at DTW on a few trucks and send it down I-75. Sadly, that facility is used nowhere close to its full potential - but it wasn't even when NW operated it.
I'd still like to see the actual numbers for each city based on passengers boarded and flights handled; that is what the bean counters in ATL look at.
DL isn't punishing anyone and none of the hubs are being singled out. DL employees do handle 4X more passengers per day in ATL vs. MSP and an even larger multiple of revenue.
ATL is staffed based on its volume as is MSP. It is very possible that DL's staffing formulas at MSP are not the same as what NW used and that is why the staffing has gone down over the past several years because the size of DL's operation at MSP is largely consistent with the growth rates elsewhere on the system.
no, DL is not punishing MSP for being efficient. It has been a well-run hub for years, long before DL put its name on it. And I would disagree that weather plays much of an issue compared to other hubs, including ATL; DTW and MSP have consistently had better on-time numbers than other hubs. Yet, statistics show that all of DL's hubs are running very high on-time numbers.
In Sept, the best performing airports for OT were MSP with 90.1%, DTW with 89.3%, SLC with 89.3%, DFW with 87.6%, and ATL with 87.5%. Those are numbers for all flights on all carriers but DL's hubs are operationally very strong with LGA and JFK weaker than the interior hubs; still DL's operations at LGA and JFK usually have better on-time than for other carriers at the same airports.
Kev may have bag misconnect data by city but I doubt if he would post it online since it is not public information. Misconnect rates are likely even more proprietary.
ATL may feel like a zoo but it largely because the buildings were not designed to handle anywhere the amount of passengers that DL puts thru them. I would love to see better facilities for DL in ATL but it simply will never happen.
What does affect staffing is the number of passengers and to a greater extent the amount of revenue that DL pushes thru a city.
ON that basis, for the month of June, the last full month that DOT statistics for domestic and int'l were available, DL boarded on average 94,000 passengers on DL and DCI flights at ATL. DCI numbers are important because DL handles DCI in ATL. IN contrast, at MSP, DL boarded 23K passengers per day on DL mainline flights. Since DL does not handle DCI flights (at least below wing), it is relevant to look only at the boardings for DL handled flights. DTW is actually slightly lower than MSP. However, DL has far more int'l flights at both ATL and DTW than they do at MSP. ATL has one of the highest average aircraft sizes of any hub in the US which adds a "zoo" factor to the operation, including having passengers spilling into the hallways at boarding time. Incidentally, the same type of "feel" exists at many domestic AA gates at DFW. DTW is the most customer friendly airport on DL's system when it comes to space. Too bad DL can't put the A concourse at DTW on a few trucks and send it down I-75. Sadly, that facility is used nowhere close to its full potential - but it wasn't even when NW operated it.
I'd still like to see the actual numbers for each city based on passengers boarded and flights handled; that is what the bean counters in ATL look at.
DL isn't punishing anyone and none of the hubs are being singled out. DL employees do handle 4X more passengers per day in ATL vs. MSP and an even larger multiple of revenue.
ATL is staffed based on its volume as is MSP. It is very possible that DL's staffing formulas at MSP are not the same as what NW used and that is why the staffing has gone down over the past several years because the size of DL's operation at MSP is largely consistent with the growth rates elsewhere on the system.
Kev3188
Veteran
That MSP runs so well is testament to the professionalism of the workforce. As you've seen, the mindset there is different that it may be elsewhere, and it's something that, IMO, our employer has never really "got."
No good deed going unpunished is certainly in vogue right now in ACS w/r/t goals, staffing, etc.
I can't access hub performance data right now, but MSP does well. Staffing wise, you're right; using the employee-per-flight metric, ATL is one of- if not the- fattest staffed hub we have.
That's all well and good, but doesn't change my earlier point. When you're already working short, losing 2-4 movements/day isn;t something you're going to mourn.
Airlinelifer
Senior
- Jan 10, 2008
- 333
- 142
Haven't been catching up with the thread lately, here is what I know about MIA. At NWA, MIA had 18 flights in 1989 down to 6 flights in 2006 contracted out at the end of 2006. (7 flight minimum a day to keep NWA ramp)
At DAL, ramp was contracted out in 2005, no minimum flight schedule to contract out work.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #233
I don't think there is anything any more or less professional about any other city on DL's system. MSP is and always has been a well run city.
The problem with ATL is the sheer volume of passengers DL handles in a much smaller size space. I don't know the comparison in terms of floor space, but MSP is a pretty sprawling complex.
Remember that DL put more than $300M in efficiency gains as part of its business plan for this year. Pilots are taking a big chunk of it but every department is contributing. The reward is that profit sharing continues to grow even though the percentage of profits for employees is decreasing.
Doing more with less is part of what drives American business. I'm not sure that DL at MSP is much different from the rest of the world.
No one is being punished. But efficiency means that you push for more from everyone wherever you can.
Your point is valid that losing a couple flights doesn't hurt and likely won't have any effect on staffing solely because there will likely be more normal attrition than what was required to staff those two flights.
thanks for that update but it basically validates that NW wasn't much of a player in MIA at the time of the merger and DL decided long before to concentrate its S. Florida operation at FLL. Now, DL is expanding its size at MIA and it probably would have been a mainline operation based on NW or DL's staffing formulas of the past. It still isn't clear what DL intends to do long-term with MIA but I am certain they have ambitions for further growth solely because MIA is strategically important and DL continues to have a strong customer base there. Whether that changes anything regarding mainline staffing remains to be seen.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #235
perhaps you should tell us. I haven't heard anything about decertification drives but that doesn't mean it isn't or couldn't happen.
I do know that DALPA just threw someone(s) overboard from the MEC....
decertification? probably not but maybe meto will fill us in.
I do know that DALPA just threw someone(s) overboard from the MEC....
decertification? probably not but maybe meto will fill us in.
metopower
Veteran
- Nov 28, 2006
- 932
- 313
No decertification. Just the normal every couple of years attempt to get an I house or Delta only union. Very little headway on that front at this time. By the way the mec chairman was recalled. Reason....could not play well with others.From the north side and was rumoured to be mostly hostile then cooperative. Wanted to be postured as more independent and adversarial then past leaders.
metopower
Veteran
- Nov 28, 2006
- 932
- 313
I was only talking about my experiences around system.Also only talking about agents.Never.Ever had a bad interaction with a DL mechanic.That goes for attitude ,communication quality of their work always reliable.Can't say that for the other groups. Just my experience
Glenn Quagmire
Veteran
- Apr 30, 2012
- 4,809
- 4,343
After 20 pages of crap, nobody can say how many actual employees "got a fifth week of vacation back?"
Kev3188
Veteran
Actual data like that is treated like a state secret at the Widget. Much easier to tell a good news story, and hope no one asks too many questions.
FWIW, I'm still waiting on a definitive answer about how "bad time" may or may not affect it...
So much for just "making a call."
FWIW, I'm still waiting on a definitive answer about how "bad time" may or may not affect it...
So much for just "making a call."
