5TH week vacation coming back?

[Kev3188]

except that you posted pages back that there are indeed exclusions that might limit the number of people that might receive the benefit. That would be considered performance based, tay?

No. Why would you say that?

Vacation time, including the 5th week, are not the only benefits that DL employees based and there are a number of them that do have performance components to them.

That's nice. This topic is about the 5th week of vacation.

but since you seem to be glued to your computer

Smartphones are awesome way to kill time...

But you never said the "go to hell" statement was a joke, though.

That's 'cause it wasn't one.

Again as a white collar unorganized professional I have a very different perspective on all this. Explain why it should be any of your business how many weeks of vacation or preference for vacation taking days off another employee receives? Personnel matters should be handled on a need to know basis with the employee, supervisors, managers, and HR department, not other employees. In practice with workplace politics that doesn't happen but its mind boggling to me why people accustomed to a union and seniority based environment feel information is being withheld from them. And of course you cover this up with accountability, consistency, fairness, transparency, etc but giving everyone the exact same is not necessarily "fair".

Josh

You may not like the system, but giving everyone "the same" is how it is. DL models employee accruals based on years of service, just as any other carrier does.

It's not a matter of being in everyone's business; everyone knows those dates if for no other reason than to know when they'll hit them.

If the question was which specific employees will see the 5th week returned to them right way, I might be with you. Asking how many in total will see it come Apr. '14 is a different issue altogether...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Found this on another website from a UA pilot:

When Delta merged with NW, they pretty much threw the Delta playbook to NW and said, welcome to Deltr.

Ucon, said "we are a merger of equals."

I am not going to get into that urinating contest....

So, they decided to spread the pain with taking and giving between both entities so that we ALL had to change our way of doing business by learning new procedures or SOP's. I am not talking just the piloten....

We have a multitude of jobs that have changed not from the UAL or CAL way, but to some b******* procedures in between. Again, I am not just talking of the piloten, talk to your coworkers, listen to the hell they are going through. Not specific to either legacy either.

Our geniuses have allowed change just for the sake of change. Some of this change is to a worse way of doing things than either legacy had pre merger.

Delta made 1.4 B because they saw the value of having employee contracts in place at the outset of their merger and they knew better than to try to change and get rid of the processes of BOTH carriers that were established and improved upon over the decades.

Yes, they changed some things at Delta but the airline is DELTA.

We are United/Continental holdings. What the hell is that?

Our CASM and revenue problems lie squarely at the heels of those in management who thought they were rocket scientists.

Well, the financial condition of UCH proves otherwise.

This merger was **** up from the out set when they didn't decide to go with one carriers procedures of the others with minor changes.

Anyway, that's my rant after a four day...



------


sometimes those on the outside get it better than those on the inside.


IF there was any doubt about what DL's intentions with NW and its people, it should have been removed the night when DL hired a top NW corporate client to remove all NW signage in NW's showpiece DTW hub and replace with DL signage - in less than 8 hours.

And then they proceeded to stick DL's M90s into MSP and DL 777s into DTW to create the Pacific network that NW was unable to build.

At the same time, DL made it clear to NW people that DL's personnel policies and practices - which have succeeded at delivering what has succeeded for DL people far more than for any other group of airline employees in the industry - would prevail.

The vast majority of NW people figured out what was going on and got with the program to their benefit.

Josh is absolutely right that there are only a vocal minority who continue to fail to grasp reality and want to live in some alternative reality that is not an option.


That's the reality you live in, Kev. Five years after the merger is about as good of a time as any to get with the program.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

And then they proceeded to stick DL's M90s into MSP and DL 777s into DTW to create the Pacific network that NW was unable to build.

Actually, DL merged with NWA to get the pacific network that DL was never able create on its own.

That is the reality that all but you understand.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and NW's board gave DL the complete freedom to use the DL name and DL headquarters and impose DL's culture on the resulting airline, a demand that DL had during the merger process. DL got it.

NW accomplished a lot but it is now in the history books.

It should be very clear why DL doesn't do retro jets.

DL acquired NW assets just as they did with Pan Am. But even UA employees can recognize that DL didn't try to create a collaborative culture between NW and DL, esp. around employee relations driven in large part by the example of your union under which NW had to pull out the big weapons and finish the union off.

DL did acquire the Pacific operation and has developed it to make beautiful music. You need only look at UA's results to see that they are now backed into a corner despite growing very little on the Pacific and having a 25 year headstart on DL in building a network beyond Japan.

The MSP and DTW hubs are clearly profitable and valuable strategic assets that DL has further developed but no one should have any doubts that DL intended to transform those hubs into its image the day they went in and removed every vestige of NW signage - just like they did in NYC when they acquired Pan Am.

With Pan Am, they used gallons of white paint and stickers. With NW, they used professional signage provided by one of NW's top corporate clients. The significance couldn't have been stronger.

But DL with the blessing of NW's board is running as far and as fast as it can from NW's labor relations practices and it will DAP to ensure that the curse of labor unions which has destroyed so many airlines is not a risk for DL.

And the real answer to why the MSP hub has lower staffing than other hubs is likely that DL isn't going to hire one more person in a city that was a hotbed of union activity for NW until they know with certainty that those efforts at trying to return to NW's roots are completely extinct.

Kev's efforts to go to bat for his peers in MSP online by aggressively attacking DL might be serving to accomplish just the opposite of what he thinks he will accomplish.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

It should be very clear why DL doesn't do retro jets.

Excuse me?

Wasn't it you not long ago praising Delta's idea to use older aircraft? Case in point, the 717's acquired from LUV.

"Delta flies to profitability in older planes
9:32 am November 16, 2012, by David Markiewicz

Delta Air Lines is boldly going where other carriers aren’t.

Old.

According to The Wall Street Journal, Atlanta’s cost-conscious hometown airline is saving money flying older planes, in stark contrast with its competitors who like them shinier and newer.

The average age of the Delta fleet is 16.6 years. It’s just 12 years at United Continental and US Airways, and 11 years at Southwest. Jet Blue’s are only six years old."

 

[WorldTraveler]

a retro jet refers to the livery, not the model.

 

[Kev3188]

Kev's efforts to go to bat for his peers in MSP online by aggressively attacking DL might be serving to accomplish just the opposite of what he thinks he will accomplish.

Oh please. I haven't attacked DL at all. Nice codewords, though. Discussing working conditions isn't an "attack," nor is reassuring a former employee that the place is in good hands. The latter should've left you with a "big grin on your face," but your obsession with this board won't allow it.

DL asked NW employees to "give them a chance" w/r/t labor relations. Had they completely delivered, neither current campaign would've ever left the blocks. Did it ever occur to you that maybe the company's actions w/r/t it's employees may have had the opposite effect of what it though it would accomplish? You may not see it, but even the company sees it to an extent. Hence things like (wait for it) a return of the 5th week. It's a nice step, but they still haven't recognized the one thing people want that's driving card signings from both PM groups.

They also promised to "take the best from both worlds." With a couple exceptions, they then completely ignored that. It only took five years ( I thought they were fast movers?), but thankfully, some of the PMNW procedures are making their way back into the combined operation. All are common sense (something you're a fan of, right?) and will help current employees continue to build the place into something fantastic.

Enjoy.

 

[Kev3188]

It should be very clear why DL doesn't do retro jets.

Maybe you should explain it for us (besides the fact that they would need to paint an entire sub fleet to include everyone).

Then you should explain the 2nd to last paragraph in the ROTR, and why you feel it no longer applies.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Diversity doesn't mean embracing failed strategies. The fact that NW had some of the most contentious relations with its labor unions doesn't mean that DL is going to endorse what its people believe if it is counter to DL's models.

You can express diversity and DL will embrace it but DL is not going to destroy itself to make you feel included.

If you don't see that pushing a union agenda while also criticizing every thing that DL does (remember that I have invited you to say a few positive things about DL but you wanted nothing to do with that) only to then take up the cause of staffing in MSP is going to look every bit as a union threat that DL is going to do all possible to ensure has no chance of hurting what DL has worked to build. The fact that even here you say that DL has failed when many of your peers are quite happy with what they have is proof that you don't want to or can't see the benefits the merger has created.

The UA pilot's point shows that DL was decisive in picking one thing or the other in a set of options but not trying to mix from two sides. DL has done that.

Yes, NW had a lot of procedures that worked well and no one is doubting that there aren't opportunities to do things in ways that make sense for the company.
Changes to the Business Elite int'l service procedures are closer to what NW offered than traditional DL. They are also faster and DL is responding to customer feedback - including mine - that the service could be done a whole lot faster. The lie flat seats don't do much good if FAs are in the cabin rattling dishes and parading back and forth to the galleys. DL listened.
You have spoken about IT systems and operational procedures and I have no problem w/ DL making those changes if that is what works best.

But what DL unequivocally will not waver on is their HR policies. There will never be a blending between what DL has and what NW had.

 

[Kev3188]

But what DL unequivocally will not waver on is their HR policies. There will never be a blending between what DL has and what NW had.

Hate to break it to you, but that "blending" of HR policies been happening for quite awhile now.

Nothing about the ROTR?

 

[WorldTraveler]

reread slowly....NW style HR is dead and the overwhelming majority of DL employees don't want it

 

[Kev3188]

I got it the first time.

The current HR policies are a "blend" (your term) from both. No, it's not 50/50, but it doesn't take long to see what part came from where. Many of those changes were based on what DL employees want.

 

[WorldTraveler]

i am not talking about policies and procedures and those do reflect taking what works from whatever source.

the contentious style of HR relations is dead...NW perfected. DL wants nothing to do with it

The answer regarding the rules comes from that fact

 

[Kev3188]

i am not talking about policies and procedures...

No? then why write this?

But what DL unequivocally will not waver on is their HR policies. There will never be a blending between what DL has and what NW had.

That's what I responded to. HR policies. Today's reflect what each carrier "had."

As for the ROTR, you'll need to clarify. Being cryptic isn't conducive to a good thread.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you'll have to speak to whatever point in the ROTR that you think I should address. I spoke to what I counted up as paragraph 2 from the end. If my answer didn't meet your expectations then you need to talk about what you want addressed.

Again, P&P is not the issue whether it be operational or HR. DL has and will continue to create P&P that work best, regardless of the source.

DL will not replicate NW's environment of contentious labor-mgmt. relationships.

Your parallel efforts to slam DL at every turn while pushing a union agenda and then taking up the cause of MSP staffing serve only to threaten DL's sense that calm is coming to labor relations - and thus they will DAP to keep the headcount as low as possible.

I know you would never believe that someone like me could be right on the issue but you might be surprised both at what I still know....