AA and Labor Negotiations-2020

[AMFAinMIAMI]

I can see the company maybe putting new hires and/or low time employees into the pension fund, not short timers or high time employees.

Paul Too, ask your maintenance planners and your maintenance training dept. if they have been told they are going to the IAM?

No TWU employee should be placed into the IAMPF it's a multi-company plan that's in trouble and within that, the money you get when retired can be cut to save the plan. If you go back to work in the industry they can stop the pension as well. SO NOT GOOD.

 

[Duke787]

Has anybody found out what the TWU AMTs are giving up to supplement IAM AMTs coveted health insurance for 5 years. That’s expensive to the company especially since the pilots and FAs will expect that also, the association (TWU side) had to give up something for that since we aren’t getting as rich as contract as the IAM side.

I definitely don’t want to hear some union goof going on a tirade spouting union rhetoric about how the company is trying to divide us and we all need to stick together.

Between the formation of association (2unions with different priorities, without membership vote)the AIP which is better for the IAM minority of at the expense of TWU majority. This done by union leadership/negotiating team not membership or AA. How are we suppose to be one union speaking as one. I see nothing but divisiveness for the next 10 years at least, 5 years of new contract (if it passes) and 5 years of negotiations for the next contract.

I should have added, speaking of health ins. "That’s expensive to the company especially since the pilots and FAs will expect that also" ALL association members would expect the same insurance as the IAM members, since we are ALL one union, unless that rhetoric doesn't apply anymore. Unless my union dues are going to go down or the association is going to cut the TWU majority members a check for $4k each, I think the TWU members are being treated as B scale association members.

Question for SWA mech, for all the AMFA contracts is there a seperate benefits package for certain mechanics? Has there ever been a contract where some members get less in benefit coverage? I know we use to have a B scale pay wise, but all unions have gotten away from that, maybe this is the new form a Bscale, unfortunately this will effect the TWU union members who have worked for the AA for 20 30 years and more, having sacrificed for the airline during the toughest of times in the airline industry only to be forced into an association that doesn't give equal representation to the TWU majority members of association.

If this treatment isn't making all association members sign an AMFA card, nothing will.

 

[Paul Too]

Paul Too, ask your maintenance planners and your maintenance training dept. if they have been told they are going to the IAM?

No TWU employee should be placed into the IAMPF it's a multi-company plan that's in trouble and within that, the money you get when retired can be cut to save the plan. If you go back to work in the industry they can stop the pension as well. SO NOT GOOD.

I agree 100% with you AMFA in Miami! There seems to be some chatter on these boards suggesting that the TWU employees may not have a choice but be forced into the IAMPF.

 

[1AA]

I agree 100% with you AMFA in Miami! There seems to be some chatter on these boards suggesting that the TWU employees may not have a choice but be forced into the IAMPF.

If true there is one guaranteed way to stop this. Sign a card and let's get out of this dysfunctional association today. What are some of my fellow union members waiting for?

 

[AANOTOK]

Briefing for 2/24/2020



NEGOTIATIONS UPDATE: Hi everyone, just wanted to update you on what is going on now with our AIP, and what you can expect next.
However I first want to explain a little on what has been going on the last several weeks since the announcement of our AIP ( agreement in principle ).
If you will recall, several months ago in one of my briefings, I stated that once you reach a point in negotiations and you have passed articles back and forth several times, that both the company and union agree to stop the unnecessary passes back and forth, and continue negotiating across the table verbally until a agreement could be reached on a article. Then, either the company or union would put the verbal agreements in writing in a written proposal.

Well this is how the last several months of negotiations leading up to the AIP took place. All the remaining issues ( mostly the big cost items ) were mostly verbally discussed back and forth between the two sides, with both parties taking the detailed notes on the issues.
Once these remaining issues were agreed to verbally by both sides, then the AIP was announced.

So for the last several weeks, the company and association has now been writing the language of those verbal discussions. Some articles, we already had something to work off of. EX: Lets say we took the scope article that the company placed on jetnet. We would then take that language and change or add or delete from the jetnet proposal. These changes would come from the verbal agreements done the last several months to that article.
Some articles like scope we had something to work with, but others had much more language that needed to be written.

And as usual when writing language, you sometimes will have the sides not agreeing exactly on what is suppose to go into the article.
The good news these small disagreements are just that... small. They have not or do not change what has been put out in the highlight sheet for our members to read. However these discussions still take place and are time consuming to say the least.

Also at this same time, as soon as a team from the association and company get language completed on a article, we then hand it down to another team that has been going over the language and proofreading for any errors.

This basically, as short as possible, is a explanation on what has been going on since the AIP was announced.

We have worked too long and spent too much time on this agreement, to not do the necessary work that must be done to make sure we have the contract we have stated in the highlight sheet. So we will take whatever time it takes to get this language correct.

Hopefully the language will be finished this week in the meetings between the association and company. Then next week, we can finish the final proofreading and also the IMPLEMENTATION DATES.

IMPLEMENTATION DATES: This is probably by far the most important thing yet to be done before we can put out a full contract for your viewing.
While pay, and other things will take place right away or fairly quickly once the agreement is ratified, there are other things the company and union will have to discuss and come to an agreement on the respective implementation dates.
Probably the biggest issue for implementation will be getting everyone moved and programmed into the work brain computer system.
Having everyone under one system will drive many things of the contract, and exactly when those certain things can take place.
Of course we want everything done right away. However that is just not possible when dealing with two different systems and bringing everyone under one.
So we will discuss these issues as well as many others with the company, and set dates for deadlines on when things must be implemented and take effect.
This like I said, can hopefully be done next week.

WHATS NEXT: Once everything above gets done, the company will then send the contract as a whole to the printers to have a copy printed for every member. At this same time, the association will place the full contract online to be viewed and downloaded. YES, a full printed copy will be mailed to each employees address on file with the company. So you might want to check and make sure you have the correct address on file.

We do not have to wait for our members to receive the full agreement in the mail to start our roadshows, since it will be available online for download.
Some of you, depending on when we get to your station, will have your mailed agreement in hand. But others might have to download a copy if we are at your location before you receive your copy in the mail.
I do not know at this time, or do I want to speak on behalf of my TWU counterparts on when of if every station will be briefed with a roadshow.
However, I have gave my word for the stations that I am assigned to, that a visit from at least myself ( maybe others on the team ) will be set to discuss the agreement as a whole and to answer all your questions prior to a vote.
If all the above goes as planned, my roadshows will start in clt on March 16 & 17, and I will set dates for my other locations from there. Please note that these dates are subject to change based on how the next couple of weeks go. Im just trying to give everyone a idea of a time frame.
I have been told so far, that we would have about a two week period to get the roadshows done ( again subject to change ). With a vote scheduled for soon after.
That is all the info I have on the vote right now, because I don't think all the info on voting is set at this time.

ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS: Whether or not I am assigned to your respective station to answer questions, it is always my intention to make sure everyone if possible is fully informed before you vote. Many of you have my cell and can text or call, but another way you can get in touch with me with questions is go to our clt Facebook page at " I Am Fleet Service Charlotte NC " I monitor that sight daily to answer members questions. So please care to get the correct information and don't go with rumors. Just send a request to join, and I will get you on. Usually its in the evening hours before I have time to get on, so just give me some time to respond.
Sorry for the long briefing, but just trying to get the info out as I know it at this time.

EVERYONE HAVE A GOOD AND SAFE WEEK

 

[1AA]

Briefing for 2/24/2020



NEGOTIATIONS UPDATE: Hi everyone, just wanted to update you on what is going on now with our AIP, and what you can expect next.
However I first want to explain a little on what has been going on the last several weeks since the announcement of our AIP ( agreement in principle ).
If you will recall, several months ago in one of my briefings, I stated that once you reach a point in negotiations and you have passed articles back and forth several times, that both the company and union agree to stop the unnecessary passes back and forth, and continue negotiating across the table verbally until a agreement could be reached on a article. Then, either the company or union would put the verbal agreements in writing in a written proposal.

Well this is how the last several months of negotiations leading up to the AIP took place. All the remaining issues ( mostly the big cost items ) were mostly verbally discussed back and forth between the two sides, with both parties taking the detailed notes on the issues.
Once these remaining issues were agreed to verbally by both sides, then the AIP was announced.

So for the last several weeks, the company and association has now been writing the language of those verbal discussions. Some articles, we already had something to work off of. EX: Lets say we took the scope article that the company placed on jetnet. We would then take that language and change or add or delete from the jetnet proposal. These changes would come from the verbal agreements done the last several months to that article.
Some articles like scope we had something to work with, but others had much more language that needed to be written.

And as usual when writing language, you sometimes will have the sides not agreeing exactly on what is suppose to go into the article.
The good news these small disagreements are just that... small. They have not or do not change what has been put out in the highlight sheet for our members to read. However these discussions still take place and are time consuming to say the least.

Also at this same time, as soon as a team from the association and company get language completed on a article, we then hand it down to another team that has been going over the language and proofreading for any errors.

This basically, as short as possible, is a explanation on what has been going on since the AIP was announced.

We have worked too long and spent too much time on this agreement, to not do the necessary work that must be done to make sure we have the contract we have stated in the highlight sheet. So we will take whatever time it takes to get this language correct.

Hopefully the language will be finished this week in the meetings between the association and company. Then next week, we can finish the final proofreading and also the IMPLEMENTATION DATES.

IMPLEMENTATION DATES: This is probably by far the most important thing yet to be done before we can put out a full contract for your viewing.
While pay, and other things will take place right away or fairly quickly once the agreement is ratified, there are other things the company and union will have to discuss and come to an agreement on the respective implementation dates.
Probably the biggest issue for implementation will be getting everyone moved and programmed into the work brain computer system.
Having everyone under one system will drive many things of the contract, and exactly when those certain things can take place.
Of course we want everything done right away. However that is just not possible when dealing with two different systems and bringing everyone under one.
So we will discuss these issues as well as many others with the company, and set dates for deadlines on when things must be implemented and take effect.
This like I said, can hopefully be done next week.

WHATS NEXT: Once everything above gets done, the company will then send the contract as a whole to the printers to have a copy printed for every member. At this same time, the association will place the full contract online to be viewed and downloaded. YES, a full printed copy will be mailed to each employees address on file with the company. So you might want to check and make sure you have the correct address on file.

We do not have to wait for our members to receive the full agreement in the mail to start our roadshows, since it will be available online for download.
Some of you, depending on when we get to your station, will have your mailed agreement in hand. But others might have to download a copy if we are at your location before you receive your copy in the mail.
I do not know at this time, or do I want to speak on behalf of my TWU counterparts on when of if every station will be briefed with a roadshow.
However, I have gave my word for the stations that I am assigned to, that a visit from at least myself ( maybe others on the team ) will be set to discuss the agreement as a whole and to answer all your questions prior to a vote.
If all the above goes as planned, my roadshows will start in clt on March 16 & 17, and I will set dates for my other locations from there. Please note that these dates are subject to change based on how the next couple of weeks go. Im just trying to give everyone a idea of a time frame.
I have been told so far, that we would have about a two week period to get the roadshows done ( again subject to change ). With a vote scheduled for soon after.
That is all the info I have on the vote right now, because I don't think all the info on voting is set at this time.

ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS: Whether or not I am assigned to your respective station to answer questions, it is always my intention to make sure everyone if possible is fully informed before you vote. Many of you have my cell and can text or call, but another way you can get in touch with me with questions is go to our clt Facebook page at " I Am Fleet Service Charlotte NC " I monitor that sight daily to answer members questions. So please care to get the correct information and don't go with rumors. Just send a request to join, and I will get you on. Usually its in the evening hours before I have time to get on, so just give me some time to respond.
Sorry for the long briefing, but just trying to get the info out as I know it at this time.

EVERYONE HAVE A GOOD AND SAFE WEEK

Thanks for the info. It's sad it's still us and them for a so called JCBA. No mention on how the voting will take place. Why is it such a big mystery on the voting process?

 

[Real tired]

Paul Too, ask your maintenance planners and your maintenance training dept. if they have been told they are going to the IAM?

No TWU employee should be placed into the IAMPF it's a multi-company plan that's in trouble and within that, the money you get when retired can be cut to save the plan. If you go back to work in the industry they can stop the pension as well. SO NOT GOOD.

But we need you. We want you. We like you. Help us ...............

https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/fi...s/critical/2019/iam-national-pension-fund.pdf

 

[skinvalve]

I hope the union attorneys reviewing the AIG finish soon so that I can have my attorneys review the AIG and advise me if I should vote yes or no.

 

[1986Mekanic]

Briefing for 2/24/2020



NEGOTIATIONS UPDATE: Hi everyone, just wanted to update you on what is going on now with our AIP, and what you can expect next.
However I first want to explain a little on what has been going on the last several weeks since the announcement of our AIP ( agreement in principle ).
If you will recall, several months ago in one of my briefings, I stated that once you reach a point in negotiations and you have passed articles back and forth several times, that both the company and union agree to stop the unnecessary passes back and forth, and continue negotiating across the table verbally until a agreement could be reached on a article. Then, either the company or union would put the verbal agreements in writing in a written proposal.

Well this is how the last several months of negotiations leading up to the AIP took place. All the remaining issues ( mostly the big cost items ) were mostly verbally discussed back and forth between the two sides, with both parties taking the detailed notes on the issues.
Once these remaining issues were agreed to verbally by both sides, then the AIP was announced.

So for the last several weeks, the company and association has now been writing the language of those verbal discussions. Some articles, we already had something to work off of. EX: Lets say we took the scope article that the company placed on jetnet. We would then take that language and change or add or delete from the jetnet proposal. These changes would come from the verbal agreements done the last several months to that article.
Some articles like scope we had something to work with, but others had much more language that needed to be written.

And as usual when writing language, you sometimes will have the sides not agreeing exactly on what is suppose to go into the article.
The good news these small disagreements are just that... small. They have not or do not change what has been put out in the highlight sheet for our members to read. However these discussions still take place and are time consuming to say the least.

Also at this same time, as soon as a team from the association and company get language completed on a article, we then hand it down to another team that has been going over the language and proofreading for any errors.

This basically, as short as possible, is a explanation on what has been going on since the AIP was announced.

We have worked too long and spent too much time on this agreement, to not do the necessary work that must be done to make sure we have the contract we have stated in the highlight sheet. So we will take whatever time it takes to get this language correct.

Hopefully the language will be finished this week in the meetings between the association and company. Then next week, we can finish the final proofreading and also the IMPLEMENTATION DATES.

IMPLEMENTATION DATES: This is probably by far the most important thing yet to be done before we can put out a full contract for your viewing.
While pay, and other things will take place right away or fairly quickly once the agreement is ratified, there are other things the company and union will have to discuss and come to an agreement on the respective implementation dates.
Probably the biggest issue for implementation will be getting everyone moved and programmed into the work brain computer system.
Having everyone under one system will drive many things of the contract, and exactly when those certain things can take place.
Of course we want everything done right away. However that is just not possible when dealing with two different systems and bringing everyone under one.
So we will discuss these issues as well as many others with the company, and set dates for deadlines on when things must be implemented and take effect.
This like I said, can hopefully be done next week.

WHATS NEXT: Once everything above gets done, the company will then send the contract as a whole to the printers to have a copy printed for every member. At this same time, the association will place the full contract online to be viewed and downloaded. YES, a full printed copy will be mailed to each employees address on file with the company. So you might want to check and make sure you have the correct address on file.

We do not have to wait for our members to receive the full agreement in the mail to start our roadshows, since it will be available online for download.
Some of you, depending on when we get to your station, will have your mailed agreement in hand. But others might have to download a copy if we are at your location before you receive your copy in the mail.
I do not know at this time, or do I want to speak on behalf of my TWU counterparts on when of if every station will be briefed with a roadshow.
However, I have gave my word for the stations that I am assigned to, that a visit from at least myself ( maybe others on the team ) will be set to discuss the agreement as a whole and to answer all your questions prior to a vote.
If all the above goes as planned, my roadshows will start in clt on March 16 & 17, and I will set dates for my other locations from there. Please note that these dates are subject to change based on how the next couple of weeks go. Im just trying to give everyone a idea of a time frame.
I have been told so far, that we would have about a two week period to get the roadshows done ( again subject to change ). With a vote scheduled for soon after.
That is all the info I have on the vote right now, because I don't think all the info on voting is set at this time.

ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS: Whether or not I am assigned to your respective station to answer questions, it is always my intention to make sure everyone if possible is fully informed before you vote. Many of you have my cell and can text or call, but another way you can get in touch with me with questions is go to our clt Facebook page at " I Am Fleet Service Charlotte NC " I monitor that sight daily to answer members questions. So please care to get the correct information and don't go with rumors. Just send a request to join, and I will get you on. Usually its in the evening hours before I have time to get on, so just give me some time to respond.
Sorry for the long briefing, but just trying to get the info out as I know it at this time.

EVERYONE HAVE A GOOD AND SAFE WEEK

I'm not a facebook person, who wrote this?

 

[1986Mekanic]

Over four years of worthless negotiations. We got back what Jim Little took away from the TWU in 2003. Well almost. No seven weeks vacation, no off shift training overtime, no longevity pay, no guaranteed four early call in, no laundered uniforms, no easy hour, We didn't even get an ILC. The IAM managed to keep their IAMPF and medical but I'm sure the devil is in the writing when we get to see it. Hopefully before the MAX gets to flap its wings again. Nothing to brag about. So I ask the guys who are holding out for the contract to pass just sign a card now. Waiting does nothing to help our cause. The contract is done. No ILC. It will pass. We are all hungry for the money. The money is there. The scope not so from what I've read so far. This one is a done deal. Let's work on the next done deal. Removing the dysfunctional association from the title 1 and 2 groups.

Are you saying the easy hour which at LAA was punch out 6 minutes after shift and get 1 hour of overtime is not in the AIP?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I'm not a facebook person, who wrote this?

i'm not a facebook person either, but i'm 99.9% sure that is from the poster charlie brown. iam fleet negotiator.

Are you saying the easy hour which at LAA was punch out 6 minutes after shift and get 1 hour of overtime is not in the AIP?

i thought i saw AMTs and stores getting the penalty hour back. it didn't look like fleet is getting that back from the bullet-point sheet that emerged on the night of the AIP.

the fact that it's called an 'easy hour' and not a 'penalty hour' tells you who was negotiating for the assoc.

 

[AANOTOK]

i'm not a facebook person either, but i'm 99.9% sure that is from the poster charlie brown. iam fleet negotiator.

You would be correct. Some of us are on his email list and this was received via email.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I think you will find the expense of the IAM insurance will not cost much to the company considering we loose the 100 percent and 90 percent in each of the coming years I also expect our overall cost will increase so before you cry what you didn’t get at least you don’t have to stay in the looser IAMPF

yeah, i feel really bad.

hopefully the next time, in 5 years when the twu will take it's turn to have total control of the negotiations - they will negotiate a special bonus for you guys to deal with the financial pain of being on the dreaded laa insurance.

it probably won't be in 5 years because the company is already excited about a 7-8-9 year process since the assoc. didn't draw a red line about retro pay.

 

[Paul Too]

If the Company would "Freeze" the cost of our contribution for the insurance at a very minimum, for the duration of this pending contract, it would make the pill easier to swallow for the LAA side. I also don't hear anyone from the LUS side saying that the LAA side should have our insurance too if "we" are supposed to be an equal Team.........I don't want to hear the LUS comeback "well, we're stuck with the IAMPF" because there are many of you that don't want to get out of it!

 

[Vortilon]

Are you saying the easy hour which at LAA was punch out 6 minutes after shift and get 1 hour of overtime is not in the AIP?

The "penalty hour" is in the AIP per Gary Shiable. Only difference is, I'm pretty sure he used the term: "seven for 90". Loosely translated: punch out seven minutes late for 1 hour of OT pay.