AA and Labor Negotiations-2020

[ALUS78]

Me, I will probably vote yes as I am 1-2 years of leaving this whole thing behind. I have heard from one or two senior mechanics that meet your criteria.

Thank you for being honest Buck i believe a large majority would vote along with you.

 

[NYer]

Update on the meetings held Jan. 13th and 14th

 

[AANOTOK]

Update on the meetings held Jan. 13th and 14th

So what he is basically saying is "Restore and More" for the TWU and the IAM keeping their insurance. Oh and by the way,
let the TWU in on that insurance as well. Got it!

 

[Rogallo]

Don't wait until it's too late and the self destruction from within takes over...

The self-destruction sequence started with the merger and the mismanagement by the AWA leadership 'team' .

 

[dfw gen]

The self-destruction sequence started with the merger and the mismanagement by the AWA leadership 'team' .

you mean the "hostile takeover?"

 

[dfw gen]

https://seekingalpha.com/article/43...is-in-perpetual-state-of-uncontrolled-descent



this guy hits the nail on the head.

 

[V.O. Reason]

https://seekingalpha.com/article/43...is-in-perpetual-state-of-uncontrolled-descent



this guy hits the nail on the head.

Well this is indeed a troubling article and all the more points to why we should have had a contract to vote on last year and also why Parker and his guys must go

 

[1AA]

Well this is indeed a troubling article and all the more points to why we should have had a contract to vote on last year and also why Parker and his guys must go

We'd have a contract if both sides especially the company really want to get it done.
What's the rush? Record loads, record profits and a permanent restraining order to stop any alleged job action. On the association side we have two dysfunctional unions, both fighting from within. The AFL-CIO's only interest is to keep both unions on the property for financial gains.
The company couldn't have asked for a better scenario. Both unions win, AFL-CIO wins and the company wins. Unfortunately when you have a winner you also have to have a loser. Care to guess who the biggest losers are in this Association? Time to throw the bums out on their assets. If not ask yourself and others how much longer are you willing to wait? It's been over four years already. Even prostitutes look for new John's after a few years. We need to stop whoring ourselves to the Association and get a new John.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

LuLu, C'mon man! Your first post says how much you support getting rid of a 10 year top out in supporting new hires, then you post that everyone should only support what is good for them and only them. I am sick and tired of the IGM'ers and yes that is an IGM'er statement. I also do not support retirees voting yes just to move on. These two examples are exactly what the company wants, division amongst the new hires, soon to retirees, and the middle of the road folks. Think about it. With division within the ranks, and the division between the TWU, IAM as well as between fleet, mechs, gse, fm,pm etc all this division needs to stop! Everyone needs to get on the same page, get unified and stop this IGM mentality.
Remember this LuLu, let say you guys decide to hose the new hires now. Do you really think they will forget? Do you really think it won't affect you?? WRONG--DEAD WRONG! Think about this, new hires come into a complete fiasco of a new contracting just throwing them under the bus, don't think they won't vote for a future contract or buy-out offer that will totally screw the old timers (that's you at a later date) and force them to take in the shorts as you are trying to do to them now. Gee; again let's think about this for a moment, Hmmm, kinda like how the IAM stuck in the shorts of the TWU when the TWU wanted IAM side to support and help them with the info pickets and other means of support. And now IAM is asking for the members to support their issue at hand for keeping what they have in the contract. You really think that will happen??? Hell no. It's the exact same thing. And this division and IGM mentality will eventually DESTROY the membership from within itself by self destruction. I have seen it happen so many times before, and by the time the members really start feeling it, it will be way too late. HENCE why the mechanic and related need to get out of this fiasco and pathetic representational organization called an Employee Asso. and get their very own Class and Craft union. Once they get AMFA in the division amongst the mechs and related will completely halt. As far as you guys that remain in the asso., well, the asso. will keep the division going as long as it benefits them all the way to the bank.
Mechanics and Related, sign them cards and get yourselves out of this IGM mentality asso. Don't wait until it's too late and the self destruction from within takes over...

You are talking to a guy that was stabbed in the back by the president of 514 (Sam Cirri a FSC) and the Chairman of Fleet Service (Debbie Tiller also a FSC).

They pushed acceptance of a concessionary contract then the company got rid of Fleet Service. First it was going to be half the shop.... then it was going to be most of the shop with them retaining a few people, then it was all of the shop but a few got local job offers. By the time the dust settled Sam and Debbie were the only 2 people out of over 100 at TUL and TULE that did not have to retire, bump, put in a local transfer and wait, or quit. Debbie was even awarded a job outside of seniority.

After I came on this very forum and outed their little scam my fellow coworkers turned on me like a bunch of jackals. They rather of hung on to their delusions that these 2 clowns were trying to get there jobs back than face the fact they got taken for a ride. There desperation overrode their logic.

Other high ups in the UNION were notified but chose to turn a blind eye.

So after having been stuck in JUNIOR Fleet, betrayed by the president and Fleet Service chairman of local 514, having my fellow workers turn on me, and then having the other high ups in the UNION turn a blind eye to 2 officers cutting an under the table deal..... after all that how would you feel in my place?

In a perfect world sure I would love the UNION to be unified, however I have seen far too much in my career to tell me it is the exact opposite.

As we have had these forums and threads brought up in our nego's, they too have come to discussions in your nego's as well as discussions amongst AA legal and upper, upper management at AA. They have a whole department that works 24/7 on social media comments. Most are looking for customer complaints to fix before getting out of hand, but some are also looking for any negative comments upon the co., and yes, as you guessed they also have some searching thru these forums to get feelers and ideas about nego's. Mark my words on this, I have seen it on certain company computers in their offices by co. negotiating cmte members that were at the table. Even two guys, in our case, admitted to using some comments made here, at the table. Not good for professional nego's to do as most comments are opinions and guesses, but anything that might favor their side of an argument they will use. Even as far as pulling individuals into offices for talks and questioning, as has happened at AA. Right fellas???

What they did to me was attach my post to the news board and let my own coworkers tear me to pieces for a few months.

Every one of those worthless ass hats said the exact same thing in private, that everything I said was the truth but I should not have said it. I mean really...... if it is the truth why should it not have been said. What I did I did out of frustration for B.S. that had been going on for YEARS and was actually getting worse. I mean what a slap in the face..... you were totally right and I agree with you but I am going to treat you like sh*t for 2 months because you should not have said it.

Let me tell you guys.... having those things happen changes your perspective. These days I don't have "friends" at work. I only have coworkers. I learned the hard way that work people are not your friends and they will turn on you at the drop of a hat if it is fashionable.

So while I agree with your ideals my personal history tells me you better try to look out for your best interest and worry less about "saving the world". I tried to "save the world" and all I got for it was a slap in the face...... twice.

That gentlemen is why I have the attitude I do.

I make no apologies, not anymore.

 

[V.O. Reason]

We'd have a contract if both sides especially the company really want to get it done.
What's the rush? Record loads, record profits and a permanent restraining order to stop any alleged job action. On the association side we have two dysfunctional unions, both fighting from within. The AFL-CIO's only interest is to keep both unions on the property for financial gains.
The company couldn't have asked for a better scenario. Both unions win, AFL-CIO wins and the company wins. Unfortunately when you have a winner you also have to have a loser. Care to guess who the biggest losers are in this Association? Time to throw the bums out on their assets. If not ask yourself and others how much longer are you willing to wait? It's been over four years already. Even prostitutes look for new John's after a few years. We need to stop whoring ourselves to the Association and get a new John.

I agree but honestly based on what the article says having separate groups and contracts doesn’t benefit the company it harms it with all the different work rules.
The blame indeed is mostly on the Ass and I do hope they are removed

 

[1986Mekanic]

You are talking to a guy that was stabbed in the back by the president of 514 (Sam Cirri a FSC) and the Chairman of Fleet Service (Debbie Tiller also a FSC).

They pushed acceptance of a concessionary contract then the company got rid of Fleet Service. First it was going to be half the shop.... then it was going to be most of the shop with them retaining a few people, then it was all of the shop but a few got local job offers. By the time the dust settled Sam and Debbie were the only 2 people out of over 100 at TUL and TULE that did not have to retire, bump, put in a local transfer and wait, or quit. Debbie was even awarded a job outside of seniority.

After I came on this very forum and outed their little scam my fellow coworkers turned on me like a bunch of jackals. They rather of hung on to their delusions that these 2 clowns were trying to get there jobs back than face the fact they got taken for a ride. There desperation overrode their logic.

Other high ups in the UNION were notified but chose to turn a blind eye.

So after having been stuck in JUNIOR Fleet, betrayed by the president and Fleet Service chairman of local 514, having my fellow workers turn on me, and then having the other high ups in the UNION turn a blind eye to 2 officers cutting an under the table deal..... after all that how would you feel in my place?

In a perfect world sure I would love the UNION to be unified, however I have seen far too much in my career to tell me it is the exact opposite.


What they did to me was attach my post to the news board and let my own coworkers tear me to pieces for a few months.

Every one of those worthless ass hats said the exact same thing in private, that everything I said was the truth but I should not have said it. I mean really...... if it is the truth why should it not have been said. What I did I did out of frustration for B.S. that had been going on for YEARS and was actually getting worse. I mean what a slap in the face..... you were totally right and I agree with you but I am going to treat you like sh*t for 2 months because you should not have said it.

Let me tell you guys.... having those things happen changes your perspective. These days I don't have "friends" at work. I only have coworkers. I learned the hard way that work people are not your friends and they will turn on you at the drop of a hat if it is fashionable.

So while I agree with your ideals my personal history tells me you better try to look out for your best interest and worry less about "saving the world". I tried to "save the world" and all I got for it was a slap in the face...... twice.

That gentlemen is why I have the attitude I do.

I make no apologies, not anymore.

No wonder old lalalelouilemoniar got a case of the arse.. christ what freaking beat down..

 

[Duke787]

https://seekingalpha.com/article/43...is-in-perpetual-state-of-uncontrolled-descent



this guy hits the nail on the head.

clearly what’s going to happen is. AA will go bankrupt again (remember we are now a rebranded USairways) and while in bankruptcy, our scope will be gutted, other work rules will be changed and a buy out for the old guys in order to keep workforce young as it is a tight job market and Delta UAL SWA are all hiring AMTs.

The real fight in bankruptcy for Doug will be fending off Spirit and Allegiant airlines, and their ultimate goal of taking over the New AA. Their CEOs might sweet talk our pilots and FAs like another CEO has done in the past . It’s clear that AMTs aren’t really considered part of the airline.

I could be wrong, because I actually thought we were going to get a contract this year.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

No wonder old lalalelouilemoniar got a case of the arse.. christ what freaking beat down..

If anyone here has a case of the arse it is you. Every post I have seen from you in the last 2 weeks has been confrontational and hateful. I think you are happy being unhappy. Unfortunately for everyone here misery loves company and you choose to make this forum your company.

By the way learn to spell my name.

Maybe even try to pronounce it to help you spell it. (Laa Lee Lou Lay Low) Hooked on phonics can work for you.

I actually tried to change my name to a more conventional name but the forum admins would not have it. Not my problem if you can't cope because of your lackluster reading and spelling skills MEKANIC.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

clearly what’s going to happen is. AA will go bankrupt again (remember we are now a rebranded USairways) and while in bankruptcy, our scope will be gutted, other work rules will be changed and a buy out for the old guys in order to keep workforce young as it is a tight job market and Delta UAL SWA are all hiring AMTs.

The real fight in bankruptcy for Doug will be fending off Spirit and Allegiant airlines, and their ultimate goal of taking over the New AA. Their CEOs might sweet talk our pilots and FAs like another CEO has done in the past . It’s clear that AMTs aren’t really considered part of the airline.

I could be wrong, because I actually thought we were going to get a contract this year.

You absolutely are part of the airline. However you have 2 things going against you. Number 1 is you are not really in the public eye. Number 2, you have cheap MRO's and cheap foreign labor to compete with. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics median income for an A&P mechanic is $62,920. The highest 10 percent earned more than $97,820. Ask yourself where you fall on that scale.

Don't take my word for it. Go see for yourself.
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/installatio...equipment-mechanics-and-technicians.htm#tab-5

You can't blame American Airline's management for wanting to cut labor cost. That is just good business. Especially when you guys are in the top 10 percent in your field. Let's face it, that puts a bulls eye on your back for the company to stick a knife in.

Of course that is not to say you should accept it either. Fight the good fight. Get what you can get. Management sure the hell is.

 

[V.O. Reason]

clearly what’s going to happen is. AA will go bankrupt again (remember we are now a rebranded USairways) and while in bankruptcy, our scope will be gutted, other work rules will be changed and a buy out for the old guys in order to keep workforce young as it is a tight job market and Delta UAL SWA are all hiring AMTs.

The real fight in bankruptcy for Doug will be fending off Spirit and Allegiant airlines, and their ultimate goal of taking over the New AA. Their CEOs might sweet talk our pilots and FAs like another CEO has done in the past . It’s clear that AMTs aren’t really considered part of the airline.

I could be wrong, because I actually thought we were going to get a contract this year.

I don’t think bankruptcy is in the future as long as the cost get under control and as this article points out we are heavy on personnel compared to DL and WN. This is exactly why the company is trying to get this in line with those with this contract negotiations .
I still think Parker needs to go but trust me any new CEO will see the same issues of higher cost of AA being something that must be addressed long term in order to keep AA from bankruptcy in the future