Acc. To Delta: Combined FA Workforce "Most Likely" to vote again.
- Thread starter LukeAisleWalker
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Danny Campbell
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Luke, you wrote <<<I don't think the powers-that-be at Delta are going to be too happy with "flying remaining separate" for FAs for very long.>>>
<wink> Sounds like good bargaining leverage to me.
Jake, You should give a call sometime (248-232-2985). I'll give a real comprehensive view of the 'demographics' of the NWA FAs. We don't have a lot of FAs on the eastern seaboard. So, the number of our FAs that would want to fly out of NY would be really really small (even our NYC base is only 200 or so). DTW is our most popular base (and it is the largest). Out of the 3600 FAs in DTW, 85% don't live in Michigan -- they commute from all over the country (and world). Our largest commuter populations are in midwest cities (Ohio, Wis, Ill) and Florida (over 1200). With the variety of flying in DTW, I suspect a lot more Delta FAs would want to fly out of DTW, than NWA FAs wanting to fly out of NY. We have way more international flying out of DTW than NYC -- and the selection of domestic trips is also more compatible with commuters. Most people don't know this, but DTW is a lot larger than MSP. Anyway, my number is 248-232-2985 (home office line). If you call me - I'll make the promise to keep my mouth shut about AFA (unless you ask) -- even if it makes my tongue bleed <smirk>
<wink> Sounds like good bargaining leverage to me.
Jake, You should give a call sometime (248-232-2985). I'll give a real comprehensive view of the 'demographics' of the NWA FAs. We don't have a lot of FAs on the eastern seaboard. So, the number of our FAs that would want to fly out of NY would be really really small (even our NYC base is only 200 or so). DTW is our most popular base (and it is the largest). Out of the 3600 FAs in DTW, 85% don't live in Michigan -- they commute from all over the country (and world). Our largest commuter populations are in midwest cities (Ohio, Wis, Ill) and Florida (over 1200). With the variety of flying in DTW, I suspect a lot more Delta FAs would want to fly out of DTW, than NWA FAs wanting to fly out of NY. We have way more international flying out of DTW than NYC -- and the selection of domestic trips is also more compatible with commuters. Most people don't know this, but DTW is a lot larger than MSP. Anyway, my number is 248-232-2985 (home office line). If you call me - I'll make the promise to keep my mouth shut about AFA (unless you ask) -- even if it makes my tongue bleed <smirk>
Danny Campbell
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- Mar 29, 2008
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cooper43:
First, I need to correct you on one point. It is not accurate that you will get "DOH" if you don't succeed at getting something better. EVERYONE NEEDS TO STOP AND THINK ABOUT THIS CAREFULLY. These are the two choices....
* Join AFA and guarantee D.O.H protection
or
* Don't join AFA and face the issue going into arbitration (then, the gloves come off and we will be forced to seek THE BEST POSSIBLE outcome for "us". Delta FAs could lose FAR LESS than DOH in this setting. Particularly, since you are a more senior-heavy group. When we enter this arbitration, we will come 'armed' with past practice (the most recent case we will cite is the USAirway case - where the larger, more senior group lost more than a decade of seniority). We are also armed with a legal contract.
Why are you thinking that there is a default position of DOH? That absolutely is not the case.
To answer your last question, I can say WITH NO HESITATION that NWA FAs would NEVER want to enter into any kind of merger with another group without 'representation' and without a 'contract'. We have far too much experience for these things to be that vulnerable. The advantage that you have right now, if you join AFA, is that you are a larger group than us. So, when it comes time to negotiate a combined agreement, you have the bigger voice and numbers. I think some Delta FAs are forgetting that the very day you win representation (if you DO win), you are immediately a force to be reckoned with - with far larger voting numbers. In fact, you would be the SECOND LARGEST group in all of AFA. Believe me, people will listen to what Delta FAs want as AFA members. In fact, most of us will be kissing your butts (if we want some of our own agenda items addressed).
Danny
First, I need to correct you on one point. It is not accurate that you will get "DOH" if you don't succeed at getting something better. EVERYONE NEEDS TO STOP AND THINK ABOUT THIS CAREFULLY. These are the two choices....
* Join AFA and guarantee D.O.H protection
or
* Don't join AFA and face the issue going into arbitration (then, the gloves come off and we will be forced to seek THE BEST POSSIBLE outcome for "us". Delta FAs could lose FAR LESS than DOH in this setting. Particularly, since you are a more senior-heavy group. When we enter this arbitration, we will come 'armed' with past practice (the most recent case we will cite is the USAirway case - where the larger, more senior group lost more than a decade of seniority). We are also armed with a legal contract.
Why are you thinking that there is a default position of DOH? That absolutely is not the case.
To answer your last question, I can say WITH NO HESITATION that NWA FAs would NEVER want to enter into any kind of merger with another group without 'representation' and without a 'contract'. We have far too much experience for these things to be that vulnerable. The advantage that you have right now, if you join AFA, is that you are a larger group than us. So, when it comes time to negotiate a combined agreement, you have the bigger voice and numbers. I think some Delta FAs are forgetting that the very day you win representation (if you DO win), you are immediately a force to be reckoned with - with far larger voting numbers. In fact, you would be the SECOND LARGEST group in all of AFA. Believe me, people will listen to what Delta FAs want as AFA members. In fact, most of us will be kissing your butts (if we want some of our own agenda items addressed).
Danny
Hi Danny,
Ok thanks for discussing this with me because that is after all how we make progress.
Now I would like to make a point that it seems unreasonable to assume that if Delta is the larger carrier and thier f/a's dont have a contract, that DL managment would negotiate anything less than DOH. That is why I am not afraid of temporarily saying no to AFA. We all know that when the merger is complete that there will automatically be another vote. Honestly I really want a union but I am concerned that at this time it is not to our advantage to vote AFA in. I am aware of all the hard work you guys are doing but it all boils down to doing what one thinks is in thier best interest. Unfortunately, I think Delta will use this as a way to try to break the unions. If they can get thru this vote with a no vote then they may try to placate each group to weaken the unions hold. I am not a supporter of this game, I would rather have a contract and just be upfront but this is how I think they will play it.
You dont seem to understand the NWA FAs dont have to negotiate in reality with DL management, they can let it go to arbitration and let the cards fall as they may.
Ask yourself this, who will pay for and represent the non-union DL FAs in arbitration?
Who is more experienced in the matter?
And like Danny said, look at the arbitration at US/HP merger where the larger and senior group lost.
Ask yourself this, who will pay for and represent the non-union DL FAs in arbitration?
Who is more experienced in the matter?
And like Danny said, look at the arbitration at US/HP merger where the larger and senior group lost.
Danny Campbell
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cooper43:
I think you are misunderstanding the process (still) - sorry.
Delta 'management' doesn't get to make the final decision about your seniority. An "arbitrator" will make it. Delta can put on its best case (and we will put on ours) - then the arbitrator (i.e., the 'judge') will rule on the issue. It is a HUGE gamble for you guys. Do you understand that?
Also, while Delta is saying to you (now) that there will be a second vote, I can guarantee you that they plan to make darn sure that second vote does NOT happen. I think that is why they are continuing to hire - while NWA has ceased all hiring. They want to make sure our group falls below the automatic 35% margin that prompts an automatic election. If they can succeed at doing this, they will FORCE the combined group to have to once again PASS AUTHORIZATION CARDS to get an election. And, a LOT can happen during that card-passing campaign. Some things that can not be repaired (like outsourcing to foreign nationals, etc...).
I know how Anderson and company work -- they did this same thing to the AMFA represented mechanics.
I think you are misunderstanding the process (still) - sorry.
Delta 'management' doesn't get to make the final decision about your seniority. An "arbitrator" will make it. Delta can put on its best case (and we will put on ours) - then the arbitrator (i.e., the 'judge') will rule on the issue. It is a HUGE gamble for you guys. Do you understand that?
Also, while Delta is saying to you (now) that there will be a second vote, I can guarantee you that they plan to make darn sure that second vote does NOT happen. I think that is why they are continuing to hire - while NWA has ceased all hiring. They want to make sure our group falls below the automatic 35% margin that prompts an automatic election. If they can succeed at doing this, they will FORCE the combined group to have to once again PASS AUTHORIZATION CARDS to get an election. And, a LOT can happen during that card-passing campaign. Some things that can not be repaired (like outsourcing to foreign nationals, etc...).
I know how Anderson and company work -- they did this same thing to the AMFA represented mechanics.
Danny Campbell
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Jake:
I owe you an apology. I just read the following and stand corrected...
Star Tribune to Correct Erroneous Op-Ed; Writer Should Apologize to NWA employees, too
A lot of people have commented on an op-ed piece called 'Some Straight Talk About the NWA-Delta Merger' that ran in the Saturday's Star Tribune. The author, Roy Erickson, may have been Don Nyrop's PR guy 30 years ago, but a straight talker he isn't. He should have checked his facts before claiming to be an expert on an industry he left in 1980.
According to Mr. Erickson, Al Checchi and Gary Wilson are members of the Delta Board of Directors; Northwest and Delta are "failing carriers"; and our pilots' salary schedule and lack of productivity is one of the major problems facing the airline today. Wrong on all counts, Mr. Erickson!
I owe you an apology. I just read the following and stand corrected...
Star Tribune to Correct Erroneous Op-Ed; Writer Should Apologize to NWA employees, too
A lot of people have commented on an op-ed piece called 'Some Straight Talk About the NWA-Delta Merger' that ran in the Saturday's Star Tribune. The author, Roy Erickson, may have been Don Nyrop's PR guy 30 years ago, but a straight talker he isn't. He should have checked his facts before claiming to be an expert on an industry he left in 1980.
According to Mr. Erickson, Al Checchi and Gary Wilson are members of the Delta Board of Directors; Northwest and Delta are "failing carriers"; and our pilots' salary schedule and lack of productivity is one of the major problems facing the airline today. Wrong on all counts, Mr. Erickson!
OP
LukeAisleWalker
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- Sep 29, 2007
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Cooper:
Please, please, please...try to understand what Danny is saying. Read it twice if you have to. Delta has admitted themselves ,in their sensible- heels- with matching purse-kind of way, "arbitration is available". If the two fail to come to terms (and anything less than DOH for NW FAs will be a failure), the matter will go to an arbitrator. NW FAs are not going to allow for a ratio that will improve DL FA's lot just because some junior people in NYC think their flying is "better" than NW's. You are playing with the big boys now and have to buck up and face it. Delta is not the final say in this seniority issue. I know that's what you're used to (it goes to the parent-child paradigm that has so long been part of Delta's managerial style) but those days are quickly coming to a close. It's time for DL FAs to grow up and sit at the adult's table.
And Danny..I think you're on to something about Delta trying to get NW's margin down. From what I understand, though, they have stopped classes for now (except language) ..BUT..and this is where it gets interesting: They must be hoping that many FAs will take this early buyout severance package (it is far more generous than the one they offered two years ago; almost twice as much payout as before...even in the shadow of record oil prices..things that make you go 'hmmmm'). Someone may be able to correct me but I don't think there is a limit on how many FAs can take the severance. So if this is the case, then essentially, if they get over the amount they need (as it correlates to the 10% reduction in domestic flying), they will let them go and will fill in the gaps with new hires.. cranking up the training classes again. BINGO !! Margin buster.
<Insert evil, haunted-house laugh here>
Danny Campbell
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Luke:
Where are you based? You are a REALLY good writer. Why aren't you involved in the Delta-AFA campaign? If you win the election, you REALLY MUST be involved in the Delta-AFA Communications Team. You are clear, calm and know how to say a lot in few words (total opposite of me, btw). Do you reside in ATL?
Danny (Han Solo)
Where are you based? You are a REALLY good writer. Why aren't you involved in the Delta-AFA campaign? If you win the election, you REALLY MUST be involved in the Delta-AFA Communications Team. You are clear, calm and know how to say a lot in few words (total opposite of me, btw). Do you reside in ATL?
Danny (Han Solo)
Danny Campbell
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Jake:
In an earlier post, I stated that I have a good track record of bringing people together. This is a recent example I'm proud of...
_______________________________________________
April 16, 2008
Richard Anderson, Chief Executive Officer
Department 940 – ATG
Delta Air Lines
1010 Delta Boulevard
Atlanta, Georgia 30320
Re: Delta/NWA Merger – 'The Best of Both Worlds'
Dear Mr. Anderson:
The merger between Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines is of critical importance to the nearly 22,000 flight attendants at Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines. We write to express our hope that any merger of our respective carriers be accomplished with great care and consideration of our flying partners. We seek your cooperation in order to ensure our voices are heard – we want protection for our full seniority, the legal right to negotiate our own future and the opportunity to seek improvements at the bargaining table so that a contract for the combined groups will represent 'the best of both worlds.'
The media has reported that you have made substantial accommodations for pilots through their membership in the Air Line Pilots Association ("ALPA"). Despite repeated requests, executives have refused to engage AFA-represented flight attendants at NWA in similar substantive discussions. Delta apparently would prefer to spend millions on a campaign to defeat the right of its own flight attendants to gain legal representation than to simply allow our two groups the same recognition you are extending to ALPA.
As you know, Delta flight attendants are about to vote on whether they want to join AFA and we ask for you to agree to a corporate policy of neutrality in their election. Simply put, we seek the same opportunity you have given to the Delta and NWA pilots.
During your tenure as the CEO at Northwest, you earned a reputation as a leader who maintained a respectful and productive relationship with the NWA flight attendants' union. We believe that relationship can easily extend to the combined Delta/NWA flight attendant workforce. By remaining neutral in the Delta flight attendants' organizing campaign, you will allow us to show our own commitment to good faith bargaining and a smooth integration of our two cultures, and you will demonstrate that Delta shares that same commitment.
AFA's NWA Master Executive Council and the Delta/AFA Organizing Committee have formed a strong communication bond over the past year and we believe Delta can only benefit from this partnership by working with us. If Delta flight attendants join AFA, the Company also will benefit from a smooth seniority integration process which is outlined in our Constitution and Bylaws.
In closing, it is our sincere desire to roll up our sleeves and build the kind of labor/management partnership that a merger of this magnitude calls for. But, that will not be successful if Delta seeks to divide or conquer the flight attendants. We believe there is great opportunity ahead and remain committed to bringing the 'best of both worlds' to Delta and Northwest flight attendants.
Sincerely,
NWA/AFA Master Executive Council
Kevin Griffin, MEC President Albert Garcia, MEC Vice-President Mark Gehrt, MEC Sec-Treasurer
Josh Zivick, LEC 91 President Robert Cannatelli, LEC 92 President Shawn Fivecoat, LEC 93 President
Diana Mitcham, LEC 94 President Kathy Dunham, LEC 95 President Jay Hong, LEC 96 President
Kate Day, LEC 97 President Les Meeks, LEC 98 President Dave Tadlock, LEC 99 President
James Lucas, LEC 91 Vice-President Sherry Eubanks, LEC 91 Secretary Jon Blaeser, LEC 91 Council Rep
Jacob Easter, LEC 92 Vice-President/Secretary David Thompson, LEC 92 Council Rep
Gavin Allan, LEC 93 Vice-Pres Stacey McKnight, LEC 93 Secretary John O’Donnell, LEC 94 Vice-Pres
Anthony Hytche, LEC 94 Secretary Belea Bower, LEC 94 Council Rep Janette Rook, LEC 94 Council Rep
Jeff Martoia, LEC 94 Council Rep, Daniel Grey, LEC 94 Council Rep, Willie Wilcox, LEC 95 Vice-President
Rebecca Collier, LEC 95 Council Rep Scott Woll, LEC 96 Vice-President Maroulitsa Mizelle, LEC 96 Secretary Jeanne Elliott, LEC 96 Council Rep Tom Geiman, LEC 97 Vice-President Kaki Androsiuk, LEC 98 Vice-President De Jur Jones, LEC 98 Council Rep Elisabeth Joyce, LEC 98 Council Rep Raelynn Kawamura, LEC 99 Vice-Pres
Michelle Foley, LEC 99 Secretary Howie Mulvaney, LEC 99 Council Rep
Delta/AFA National Steering Committee
Jean Marie Cinotto, GA Mobilizing Chair John Jablonski, GA Phone Chair Stephen Jerge, East Mobilizing Chair
Linda Sorenson, East Phone Chair Marianne Bicksler, West Mobilizing Chair Al Corry, Strategy & Tactics
Toni Weinfurtner, West Phone Chair Signe Homstad, Strategy & Tactics Kay Thomas, Strategy &Tactics
Kirk Purvis, Strategy & Tactics Marilyn Bowden, Communications Paul Tanner, Communications
Mark Stell, Communications Carol Cragg, Data Coordinator Inge Fischer-Whitaker, ATL Co-Chair
Rebecca Fitzgerald, ATL Co-Chair Erin Keen-Hansil, ATL Co-Chair Mara Levene, ATL Co-Chair
Lillian Martinez, ATL Co-Chair Amy Yon, ATL Co-Chair Gilbert Livingstone, NYC Co-Chair
Charlie Rodgers, NYC Co-Chair Andrea Taylor, NYC Co-Chair Tammy Yeager, NYC Co-Chair
Tracy Kali, BOS Co-Chair Desi Leal, BOS Co-Chair Jim Laird, CVG Co-Chair
Celeste Snyder, CVG Co-Chair Stephen Coplen, TPM Chair Paul Finnegan, MCO Co-Chair
Sally Pancoast, MCO Co-Chair Gabe Perez, FLM Chair Janet Trau, SWS Chair Darren Au, LAX Co-Chair
Dudley Ogata, LAX Co-Chair Rick Smaglo, LAX Co-Chair Norbert Michael Diaz, HLS Chair
Deanne Rohe, SFS Chair Gerda Christensen, SLC Co-Chair Mary Koester, SLC Co-Chair
Glen Chase, SAS Chair Jeff Vessey, GA Chair Joan Harvey, GA Chair David Aguirre, GA Chair
Jacqueline Young, AL Chair Sherry Johnson, CT Chair Leyda Adams, DC Chair Danny Valdez, FL Chair Emily Ceshker, FL Chair Marcos Garcia, FL Chair Marieda Sawyer-Conley, KY Chair
Heather McEachern, MA Chair Jaime Alvarado, MD Chair Corinn Darby, ME Chair
Drew Yates, MS/NC Chair Pamela Breckenridge-Buselli, NH Co-Chair Sydney Walsh, NH Co-Chair
Niko Papathanasiou, NJ Chair Megan Northam, NY Chair Elizabeth Andrews, RI Chair
Robert Alsager, SC Chair Misti Ranger, AK Chair Gayle Meyer, AZ Co-Chair Nicolee Ober, AZ Co-Chair
Denise Corsello, CA Chair Linda Madsen, CA Chair Steve Markham, CA Chair Denise Hutchings, CO Chair
Sam Morales, HI Chair Kelli Parsons, KS Chair Robert Knox, LA Chair Amy Swanson, OK Chair
Tammy Whisman, MT/ND/SD/NE Chair Ken Zima, NM Chair Terry Friese, NV Chair
Luanne Morrison, TX Chair Tom Doering, UT Co-Chair Jon Dewey, UT Co-Chair Sherry Payne, TN Chair
Dianne Shelton, UT Co-Chair Jill Griffin, VA Chair Paige Quattlebaum, WA Chair David Jacob, WI Chair
In an earlier post, I stated that I have a good track record of bringing people together. This is a recent example I'm proud of...
_______________________________________________
April 16, 2008
Richard Anderson, Chief Executive Officer
Department 940 – ATG
Delta Air Lines
1010 Delta Boulevard
Atlanta, Georgia 30320
Re: Delta/NWA Merger – 'The Best of Both Worlds'
Dear Mr. Anderson:
The merger between Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines is of critical importance to the nearly 22,000 flight attendants at Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines. We write to express our hope that any merger of our respective carriers be accomplished with great care and consideration of our flying partners. We seek your cooperation in order to ensure our voices are heard – we want protection for our full seniority, the legal right to negotiate our own future and the opportunity to seek improvements at the bargaining table so that a contract for the combined groups will represent 'the best of both worlds.'
The media has reported that you have made substantial accommodations for pilots through their membership in the Air Line Pilots Association ("ALPA"). Despite repeated requests, executives have refused to engage AFA-represented flight attendants at NWA in similar substantive discussions. Delta apparently would prefer to spend millions on a campaign to defeat the right of its own flight attendants to gain legal representation than to simply allow our two groups the same recognition you are extending to ALPA.
As you know, Delta flight attendants are about to vote on whether they want to join AFA and we ask for you to agree to a corporate policy of neutrality in their election. Simply put, we seek the same opportunity you have given to the Delta and NWA pilots.
During your tenure as the CEO at Northwest, you earned a reputation as a leader who maintained a respectful and productive relationship with the NWA flight attendants' union. We believe that relationship can easily extend to the combined Delta/NWA flight attendant workforce. By remaining neutral in the Delta flight attendants' organizing campaign, you will allow us to show our own commitment to good faith bargaining and a smooth integration of our two cultures, and you will demonstrate that Delta shares that same commitment.
AFA's NWA Master Executive Council and the Delta/AFA Organizing Committee have formed a strong communication bond over the past year and we believe Delta can only benefit from this partnership by working with us. If Delta flight attendants join AFA, the Company also will benefit from a smooth seniority integration process which is outlined in our Constitution and Bylaws.
In closing, it is our sincere desire to roll up our sleeves and build the kind of labor/management partnership that a merger of this magnitude calls for. But, that will not be successful if Delta seeks to divide or conquer the flight attendants. We believe there is great opportunity ahead and remain committed to bringing the 'best of both worlds' to Delta and Northwest flight attendants.
Sincerely,
NWA/AFA Master Executive Council
Kevin Griffin, MEC President Albert Garcia, MEC Vice-President Mark Gehrt, MEC Sec-Treasurer
Josh Zivick, LEC 91 President Robert Cannatelli, LEC 92 President Shawn Fivecoat, LEC 93 President
Diana Mitcham, LEC 94 President Kathy Dunham, LEC 95 President Jay Hong, LEC 96 President
Kate Day, LEC 97 President Les Meeks, LEC 98 President Dave Tadlock, LEC 99 President
James Lucas, LEC 91 Vice-President Sherry Eubanks, LEC 91 Secretary Jon Blaeser, LEC 91 Council Rep
Jacob Easter, LEC 92 Vice-President/Secretary David Thompson, LEC 92 Council Rep
Gavin Allan, LEC 93 Vice-Pres Stacey McKnight, LEC 93 Secretary John O’Donnell, LEC 94 Vice-Pres
Anthony Hytche, LEC 94 Secretary Belea Bower, LEC 94 Council Rep Janette Rook, LEC 94 Council Rep
Jeff Martoia, LEC 94 Council Rep, Daniel Grey, LEC 94 Council Rep, Willie Wilcox, LEC 95 Vice-President
Rebecca Collier, LEC 95 Council Rep Scott Woll, LEC 96 Vice-President Maroulitsa Mizelle, LEC 96 Secretary Jeanne Elliott, LEC 96 Council Rep Tom Geiman, LEC 97 Vice-President Kaki Androsiuk, LEC 98 Vice-President De Jur Jones, LEC 98 Council Rep Elisabeth Joyce, LEC 98 Council Rep Raelynn Kawamura, LEC 99 Vice-Pres
Michelle Foley, LEC 99 Secretary Howie Mulvaney, LEC 99 Council Rep
Delta/AFA National Steering Committee
Jean Marie Cinotto, GA Mobilizing Chair John Jablonski, GA Phone Chair Stephen Jerge, East Mobilizing Chair
Linda Sorenson, East Phone Chair Marianne Bicksler, West Mobilizing Chair Al Corry, Strategy & Tactics
Toni Weinfurtner, West Phone Chair Signe Homstad, Strategy & Tactics Kay Thomas, Strategy &Tactics
Kirk Purvis, Strategy & Tactics Marilyn Bowden, Communications Paul Tanner, Communications
Mark Stell, Communications Carol Cragg, Data Coordinator Inge Fischer-Whitaker, ATL Co-Chair
Rebecca Fitzgerald, ATL Co-Chair Erin Keen-Hansil, ATL Co-Chair Mara Levene, ATL Co-Chair
Lillian Martinez, ATL Co-Chair Amy Yon, ATL Co-Chair Gilbert Livingstone, NYC Co-Chair
Charlie Rodgers, NYC Co-Chair Andrea Taylor, NYC Co-Chair Tammy Yeager, NYC Co-Chair
Tracy Kali, BOS Co-Chair Desi Leal, BOS Co-Chair Jim Laird, CVG Co-Chair
Celeste Snyder, CVG Co-Chair Stephen Coplen, TPM Chair Paul Finnegan, MCO Co-Chair
Sally Pancoast, MCO Co-Chair Gabe Perez, FLM Chair Janet Trau, SWS Chair Darren Au, LAX Co-Chair
Dudley Ogata, LAX Co-Chair Rick Smaglo, LAX Co-Chair Norbert Michael Diaz, HLS Chair
Deanne Rohe, SFS Chair Gerda Christensen, SLC Co-Chair Mary Koester, SLC Co-Chair
Glen Chase, SAS Chair Jeff Vessey, GA Chair Joan Harvey, GA Chair David Aguirre, GA Chair
Jacqueline Young, AL Chair Sherry Johnson, CT Chair Leyda Adams, DC Chair Danny Valdez, FL Chair Emily Ceshker, FL Chair Marcos Garcia, FL Chair Marieda Sawyer-Conley, KY Chair
Heather McEachern, MA Chair Jaime Alvarado, MD Chair Corinn Darby, ME Chair
Drew Yates, MS/NC Chair Pamela Breckenridge-Buselli, NH Co-Chair Sydney Walsh, NH Co-Chair
Niko Papathanasiou, NJ Chair Megan Northam, NY Chair Elizabeth Andrews, RI Chair
Robert Alsager, SC Chair Misti Ranger, AK Chair Gayle Meyer, AZ Co-Chair Nicolee Ober, AZ Co-Chair
Denise Corsello, CA Chair Linda Madsen, CA Chair Steve Markham, CA Chair Denise Hutchings, CO Chair
Sam Morales, HI Chair Kelli Parsons, KS Chair Robert Knox, LA Chair Amy Swanson, OK Chair
Tammy Whisman, MT/ND/SD/NE Chair Ken Zima, NM Chair Terry Friese, NV Chair
Luanne Morrison, TX Chair Tom Doering, UT Co-Chair Jon Dewey, UT Co-Chair Sherry Payne, TN Chair
Dianne Shelton, UT Co-Chair Jill Griffin, VA Chair Paige Quattlebaum, WA Chair David Jacob, WI Chair
Yankeestu
Member
This is my first post but just wanted to weigh in.
Seniority is so very important and with our current CBS system, it is negated regularly and yet it evokes little passion to oppose it. Why, because we have no say, no voice.
However, there are so many other reasons we need a voice. Writing our scheduling rules, negotiating our pay and future increases, changing our horrid sick pay policy. We have an opportunity to work with NW to create the best possible contract with our employer.
When Sharon Wibben conducted mandatory meetings right before the last vote. She told us if we voted the union in we could lose authorized leave, sick time, vacation and take a hard look folks, it went away because we had no choice but to accept what was decided for us.
Would I like to go back to the days when we where highly compensated and treated with respect...absolutely, but unfortunately we (labor) has entered into a new era regarding our relationship with our management. We are a commodity, a number and when it comes down to it, a liablity to the balance sheet. What would ever lead you to believe that if given the opportunity to reduce FA compensation by highering foreign nationals, our management wouldn't jump at the opportunity.
Be careful what you wish for. You may think you can protect your seniority better in arbitration but doesn't that become rather moot if you no longer have the job?
I thank Danny Campbell for helping me to smell the coffee and awaken me to possible consequence of trusting our future to those solely focused on the bottom line.
Seniority is so very important and with our current CBS system, it is negated regularly and yet it evokes little passion to oppose it. Why, because we have no say, no voice.
However, there are so many other reasons we need a voice. Writing our scheduling rules, negotiating our pay and future increases, changing our horrid sick pay policy. We have an opportunity to work with NW to create the best possible contract with our employer.
When Sharon Wibben conducted mandatory meetings right before the last vote. She told us if we voted the union in we could lose authorized leave, sick time, vacation and take a hard look folks, it went away because we had no choice but to accept what was decided for us.
Would I like to go back to the days when we where highly compensated and treated with respect...absolutely, but unfortunately we (labor) has entered into a new era regarding our relationship with our management. We are a commodity, a number and when it comes down to it, a liablity to the balance sheet. What would ever lead you to believe that if given the opportunity to reduce FA compensation by highering foreign nationals, our management wouldn't jump at the opportunity.
Be careful what you wish for. You may think you can protect your seniority better in arbitration but doesn't that become rather moot if you no longer have the job?
I thank Danny Campbell for helping me to smell the coffee and awaken me to possible consequence of trusting our future to those solely focused on the bottom line.
Yankeestu
Member
And further more.....DAL has a history of our sourcing. Cabin Service....we have dirty planes but it saves the bottom line and people still fly.
Reservations......passengers complain endlessly that they can't understand Indian Foreign Nationals manning the phones....yet they still fly.
Maintenence.......done in Mexico...people still fly.
Why would our executives show you their hand and let you know that your job could be lost to foreign nationals? Because we would vote AFA in by a huge margin. And honestly, how much of what we are told can we trust?
Reservations......passengers complain endlessly that they can't understand Indian Foreign Nationals manning the phones....yet they still fly.
Maintenence.......done in Mexico...people still fly.
Why would our executives show you their hand and let you know that your job could be lost to foreign nationals? Because we would vote AFA in by a huge margin. And honestly, how much of what we are told can we trust?
Cooper:
Please, please, please...try to understand what Danny is saying. Read it twice if you have to. Delta has admitted themselves ,in their sensible- heels- with matching purse-kind of way, "arbitration is available". If the two fail to come to terms (and anything less than DOH for NW FAs will be a failure), the matter will go to an arbitrator. NW FAs are not going to allow for a ratio that will improve DL FA's lot just because some junior people in NYC think their flying is "better" than NW's. You are playing with the big boys now and have to buck up and face it. Delta is not the final say in this seniority issue. I know that's what you're used to (it goes to the parent-child paradigm that has so long been part of Delta's managerial style) but those days are quickly coming to a close. It's time for DL FAs to grow up and sit at the adult's table.
And Danny..I think you're on to something about Delta trying to get NW's margin down. From what I understand, though, they have stopped classes for now (except language) ..BUT..and this is where it gets interesting: They must be hoping that many FAs will take this early buyout severance package (it is far more generous than the one they offered two years ago; almost twice as much payout as before...even in the shadow of record oil prices..things that make you go 'hmmmm'). Someone may be able to correct me but I don't think there is a limit on how many FAs can take the severance. So if this is the case, then essentially, if they get over the amount they need (as it correlates to the 10% reduction in domestic flying), they will let them go and will fill in the gaps with new hires.. cranking up the training classes again. BINGO !! Margin buster.
<Insert evil, haunted-house laugh here>
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree at the moment. I will continue researching the issues but at this time I see DOH benefiting NW f/a's and being a disadvantage to DL f/a's. And You guys seem very condisending and arrogant. when you say things like "If the two fail to come to terms (and anything less than DOH for NW FAs will be a failure), " and "NW FAs are not going to allow for a ratio that will improve DL FA's lot just because some junior people in NYC think their flying is "better" than NW's.". Also statemengs like "You are playing with the big boys now and have to buck up and face it. Delta is not the final say in this seniority issue" are statments that just provoke people to take issue with what you are saying. I didnt say that DL would have the final say in senority and most people on the DL side just want what is fair for both groups. NW f/a's will be more senior with the retirements that DL is offerning now and that will put us at a disadvangate. Just because we dont have a union, dont think you can take advantage of us. There are many people at DL right as we speak who are lobbying on behalf of DL f/a's and educating our leaders about the disadvantages of DOH for us. Again it is not about trying to do better than you but DOH is not fair and you guys can only see your side.
WCT
Veteran
Vote for AFA!! Please do yourselves all a favor. Your job security means, UNION!
JakesWorld
Member
Please correct me if I am wrong, here is the scope clause for the NW AFA agreement in regards to seniority protection. It states that it provides for date of hire seniority integration or "fair and equitable" seniority integration with arbitration of any disagreement before a neutral arbitrator. Arbitration is not a definate, it is a possiblity. Date of hire is an AFA policy not a contractual item according to this language. Arbitration only occurs if an agreement cannot be readch by both parties. I am sure that cooler heads would prevail at the table and it would be a win/win situation for both NW and DL F/A's.
E. Labor Protective Provisions
The Company shall not enter into any agreement to a Successor Transaction (as defined in paragraph C.1., above) or to any Partial Transaction (as defined in paragraph D, above) unless the other party to the transaction agrees in writing, as a condition of the transaction, to (1) provide Labor Protective Provisions for Northwest Airlines Flight Attendants no less favorable than the Labor Protective Provisions specified by the CAB in the Allegheny-Mohawk merger, including Sections 3 and 13 relating to fair and equitable seniority integration, but excluding Section 8 (Transfer Expenses) and Section 9 (Home Purchase) thereof; (2) provide to a Flight Attendant who is required to change his/her base station as a result of such Successor Transaction or Partial Transaction transfer expenses in accordance with Section 13.A. of this Agreement; and (3) assume the terms of this Section 1.E. and of Section 1.C.2., above. For purposes of this paragraph, a seniority integration process shall not be deemed less favorable than that provided by Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs if it provides for either (1) date of hire seniority integration, or (2) “fair and equitable†seniority integration with arbitration of any disagreement before a neutral arbitrator. This paragraph E. shall remain in full force and effect concurrently with this Flight Attendant Agreement and the next ensuing Flight Attendant Agreement.
E. Labor Protective Provisions
The Company shall not enter into any agreement to a Successor Transaction (as defined in paragraph C.1., above) or to any Partial Transaction (as defined in paragraph D, above) unless the other party to the transaction agrees in writing, as a condition of the transaction, to (1) provide Labor Protective Provisions for Northwest Airlines Flight Attendants no less favorable than the Labor Protective Provisions specified by the CAB in the Allegheny-Mohawk merger, including Sections 3 and 13 relating to fair and equitable seniority integration, but excluding Section 8 (Transfer Expenses) and Section 9 (Home Purchase) thereof; (2) provide to a Flight Attendant who is required to change his/her base station as a result of such Successor Transaction or Partial Transaction transfer expenses in accordance with Section 13.A. of this Agreement; and (3) assume the terms of this Section 1.E. and of Section 1.C.2., above. For purposes of this paragraph, a seniority integration process shall not be deemed less favorable than that provided by Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs if it provides for either (1) date of hire seniority integration, or (2) “fair and equitable†seniority integration with arbitration of any disagreement before a neutral arbitrator. This paragraph E. shall remain in full force and effect concurrently with this Flight Attendant Agreement and the next ensuing Flight Attendant Agreement.
