Aircraft maint issues

[WeAAsles]

Pilots created own in house Non AFL-CIO union in 1962.

Flight Attendants created own in house Non AFL-CIO union in 1977.

56 years later the same in house pilots union is on the property.

41 years later the same in house flight attendants union is on the property.

After the latest merger the pilots at USAIR chose to be with the APA.

After the latest merger the flight attendants at USAIR chose to be with the APFA.

Just recently the Flight Dispatchers voted and succeeded in leaving the TWU for new representation.

LUS FA’s didn’t choose to be APFA. They had no choice as the APFA held well over 50% of the combined group and the AFA would not have been able to file with the NMB to represent without getting the cards to be an intervenor which is an almost impossible task in such a small time frame.

TWU could have done the exact same thing and would have had the exact same results but both being AFL/CIO affiliates prevented that outcome.

American Airlines Mechanics voted to become part of the Transport Workers Union back in 1947.

71 years later and the same Union is still on the property.

How many Flight Dispatchers are there? 300 max? Now how many are there in the M&R Class and Craft at AA?

Not saying it’s impossible but after the merger the mountain you need to climb became much larger.

Ignoring or bashing me doesn’t change your reality.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes many AMP organizers are still with us ( I was an AMP organizer )

The core principle with the ability to make the "necessary changes."

BTW Buck I owe you an apology. Yesterday I called AMP “Aircraft Maintenance Professionals” when I see its actually called “Association of Maintenance Professionals”

Personally (Yea I know, who am I) I think going this route is a MUCH better move than AMFA. AMFA prides itself on specializing “Aircraft Maintenance” in its name alone not even counting its reputation. And you need to convince and capture those “and related” groups if you really want this AMP idea to be successful.

AMFA never satisfied that aim.

 

[WeAAsles]

Let's hope the NMB doesn't throw a wrench in their own rules and screw us over again should we get more than enough cards signed

You’re going to need to get around 60% of the combined group to sign cards for submission to overcome any challenges to the validity of signatures.

A fairly daunting task. Not impossible, but daunting.

 

[B737 driver]

Remember, the AA flight attendants left the TWU decades ago and started a union. I am sure they had the same concerns that would still exist today. They did it and guess what? They are better off for it.
As far as starting over again, I will tell you this........We WILL be starting over again come September....The IAM will not budge on their medical stance. Nothing will be brought back to the membership. The TWU is trying to hold steadfast their outsourcing position as well.

I am willing to start anew. The ASSociation is a friggin disaster.

I feel you guys will be successful, it will be a wake up call for the industrial unions, forcing them to merge to keep money flowing in, or organize sub par jobs for dues money. Either way if this suceeds at American, it will be a game changer.

 

[Buck]

BTW Buck I owe you an apology. Yesterday I called AMP “Aircraft Maintenance Professionals” when I see its actually called “Association of Maintenance Professionals”

Personally (Yea I know, who am I) I think going this route is a MUCH better move than AMFA. AMFA prides itself on specializing “Aircraft Maintenance” in its name alone not even counting its reputation. And you need to convince and capture those “and related” groups if you really want this AMP idea to be successful.

AMFA never satisfied that aim.

You have it completely wrong. AMFA's reputation was built on the lies and treachery of TWU. Instead of letting AMFA operate on the rules the TWU used fear tactics insisted on either bringing more employees in the Titled Group or pushing the company by promising better outsourcing percentages, yet neither the company or union had no method to gauge this work. On many occasions, the company took the union to the bank especially when AFW closed its doors.

 

[WeAAsles]

You have it completely wrong. AMFA's reputation was built on the lies and treachery of TWU. Instead of letting AMFA operate on the rules the TWU used fear tactics insisted on either bringing more employees in the Titled Group or pushing the company by promising better outsourcing percentages, yet neither the company or union had no method to gauge this work. On many occasions, the company took the union to the bank especially when AFW closed its doors.

Doesn’t matter how they got their reputation particularly or even if it’s truly warranted since it depends on who’s in the drivers seat at the moment for the organization. And personally since John Samuelsen took office they haven’t put out any negative propaganda about any Union whatsoever including AMFA. Besides the fact the way the guy seems to think he might actually even admire AMFA’s spunk?


I just think AMP has a better ring to it as far as being inclusive acronym wise than AMFA does. “Association of” Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal”

 

[MetalMover]

Actually I posted that history of the APFA just the other day from their own website. They were only with the TWU for about 2 years while they went through the process of getting their own Union up and running. The one they were with prior went belly up so what it looks to me like was the TWU just took ok the responsibility of servicing them (No pun intended) till they were ready to fly on their own.

Actually the two sides can file for Section 6 in about 2 weeks. We’ll see what happens. Who knows who is willing to move off any positions?

Ok the Association is a friggin disaster. So how will “Negotiations” be different if you start a new Union? Are those Negotiations problems going to magically disappear? Are the former IAM Members suddenly going to be willing to drop their Medical? If the intent of this startup is to get them too why would they sign cards with you?

Or since in Maintenance and related there aren’t as many of them you just plan to brush them and their wants aside?

So let's stay the course and be held hostage by the IAM minority. Maybe we can break the record of UAL/CAL....
Almost THREE years of JCBA talks and we are back to the IAM not budging on their medical....
From what I have read on these posts, their medical is more important to them than outsourcing.....That's fine...
But do you really see them altering their stance? I don't!!!
As for filing section 6...All that means to me is resetting the clock.


My crystal ball tells me things will happen following summer's end. And not necessarily to the unions' liking..
Getting rid of the ASSociation will be justice for it being shoved down our threats.
Revenge can be sweet sometimes.

 

[WeAAsles]

So let's stay the course and be held hostage by the IAM minority. Maybe we can break the record of UAL/CAL....
Almost THREE years of JCBA talks and we are back to the IAM not budging on their medical....
From what I have read on these posts, their medical is more important to them than outsourcing.....That's fine...
But do you really see them altering their stance? I don't!!!
As for filing section 6...All that means to me is resetting the clock.


My crystal ball tells me things will happen following summer's end. And not necessarily to the unions' liking..
Getting rid of the ASSociation will be justice for it being shoved down our threats.
Revenge can be sweet sometimes.

Absolutely not. NEVER accept the status quo if the status quo can be changed more to your liking.

As far as the Medical I don’t actually know it’s importance for DL 142 as opposed to DL 141? I don’t hear anything coming out from the IAM Mechanics what they want? They seem as quiet as church mice?

And I’ve never said that you shouldn’t strive for different representation if you’re not satisfied either. I just hope it really works out to be what you think it could be IF it ever actually happens.

It’s still 71 years of the status quo you’re looking to alter as I see it. Again why would anyone really not be skeptical?

 

[Buck]

Doesn’t matter how they got their reputation particularly or even if it’s truly warranted since it depends on who’s in the drivers seat at the moment for the organization. And personally since John Samuelsen took office they haven’t put out any negative propaganda about any Union whatsoever including AMFA. Besides the fact the way the guy seems to think he might actually even admire AMFA’s spunk?


I just think AMP has a better ring to it as far as being inclusive acronym wise than AMFA does. “Association of” Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal”

Why are the majority of the mechanics ready to do what whatever it takes to remove the Association?

"Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association"

 

[MetalMover]

Absolutely not. NEVER accept the status quo if the status quo can be changed more to your liking.

As far as the Medical I don’t actually know it’s importance for DL 142 as opposed to DL 141? I don’t hear anything coming out from the IAM Mechanics what they want? They seem as quiet as church mice?

Sure they're quiet. The longer the IAM side refuses to budge the closer to another year of paying the cheaper medical they enjoy.

And I’ve never said that you shouldn’t strive for different representation if you’re not satisfied either. I just hope it really works out to be what you think it could be IF it ever actually happens.

All we can do is try. Apartheid, slavery, right to vote, etc all took way longer to abolish.

It’s still 71 years of the status quo you’re looking to alter as I see it. Again why would anyone really not be skeptical?

I haven't been a member for 71 years. But I will say the TWU probably did the right thing for its members for the first 30 years or so. But once the 80's hit, they became cocky and arrogant. Special relationships with former management and using the mighty TUL base to keep the gravy train rolling.[/QUOTE]

 

[ALUS78]

You’re going to need to get around 60% of the combined group to sign cards for submission to overcome any challenges to the validity of signatures.

A fairly daunting task. Not impossible, but daunting.

Weez this really isn't any of our concern but why would any mech not want to sign on.Thank God for the guys doing the leg working start g a business with 10000 employees day one...the best of luck

 

[Matt1200]

I’m with the LUS side of the maintenance. I think that our contract is better than the TWU side. I want to keep my medical and pension. If the company would give me a 401k match at 5% and my pension that would be ok with me. I do agree that the association was forced upon us and was not happy about that. The sad part is in some of today’s unions they are more interested in dues then what the people want and deserve. I knew that there would be problems having two unions. The company is sitting back laughing because we fight amongst our selves. I heard in Tulsa they are trying to vote the association out. I feel that it is not good timing to do this. It will just show the company how disorganized we really are. I have not been happy with the IAM for quite sometime. They tell us not to work road trips or overtime. I for one disagree with this. If all union members did that it would be alright but some don’t. I also think there is a long road ahead of us getting a contract!

 

[WeAAsles]

Why are the majority of the mechanics ready to do what whatever it takes to remove the Association?

"Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association"

Buck the “majority” would be over 6000 people and you’re not their spokesperson anymore than anyone speaks for me either unless I authorize them too.

If you ever do change Representation then you can finally say that it was the will of the majority that spoke.

Before then though not quite.

 

[WeAAsles]

I’m with the LUS side of the maintenance. I think that our contract is better than the TWU side. I want to keep my medical and pension. If the company would give me a 401k match at 5% and my pension that would be ok with me. I do agree that the association was forced upon us and was not happy about that. The sad part is in some of today’s unions they are more interested in dues then what the people want and deserve. I knew that there would be problems having two unions. The company is sitting back laughing because we fight amongst our selves. I heard in Tulsa they are trying to vote the association out. I feel that it is not good timing to do this. It will just show the company how disorganized we really are. I have not been happy with the IAM for quite sometime. They tell us not to work road trips or overtime. I for one disagree with this. If all union members did that it would be alright but some don’t. I also think there is a long road ahead of us getting a contract!

So Buck are you 100% sure it’s not people like Matt here who don’t speak for the majority?

9 times out of 10 the majority is silent.

 

[MetalMover]

I’m with the LUS side of the maintenance. I think that our contract is better than the TWU side. I want to keep my medical and pension. If the company would give me a 401k match at 5% and my pension that would be ok with me. I do agree that the association was forced upon us and was not happy about that. The sad part is in some of today’s unions they are more interested in dues then what the people want and deserve. I knew that there would be problems having two unions. The company is sitting back laughing because we fight amongst our selves. I heard in Tulsa they are trying to vote the association out. I feel that it is not good timing to do this. It will just show the company how disorganized we really are. I have not been happy with the IAM for quite sometime. They tell us not to work road trips or overtime. I for one disagree with this. If all union members did that it would be alright but some don’t. I also think there is a long road ahead of us getting a contract!

Matt, we are already coming across as disorganized. Thanks to the ASSociation. Now, in addition to arguing over medical and outsourcing, we have another fight coming up over super seniority.
To quote a line from the Buffalo Springfield's FOR WHAT ITS WORTH ...........Nobody's right if everybody's wrong!

I'll say it again. We are already disorganized!