April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[cleardirect]

The NMB recognizes USAPA as the bargaining agent for all US Airways pilots. How will USAPA not be the representative for all US Airways pilots?

Usapa will not be the bargaining agent anymore very soon. Are you not getting that?

Who represented the east pilots during the AAA/AWA seniority integration? Do you think it was ALPA?

Who will represent the American pilots during the next seniority integration? Do you think it will be APA?

 

[EastUS1]

I'd rather have "stiff legged Marty" than a squid.

Well...as you see best. Personally; I'm a big fan of calamari, but to each his own, I suppose.

 

[AWE Dog]

Why wasn't Roland in court on the 14th?.. He knows the RLA.

 

[algflyr]

Soon the question will be who is usapa?

Usapa will be replaced by the APA. Does the APA get to decide who represents east pilots? End of story.

Same rules apply. If you think the union is in charge a different union has the same rights you are trying to impose on us.

Would you care to rethink your answer?

I never did get an answer to my question who represented east pilots during the AAA/AWA merger? Who will represent the American pilots during the us airways/AA merger?

Clear,

You are wrong in this respect. USAPA will remain the negotiator for East and West pilots during SLI regardless of which Union will ultimately represent the new American pilots. If a single carrier status was granted today and the NMB declared the APA as the new bargaining agent effective tomorrow. The APA would indeed become the new bargaining agent, but parts of USAPA would remain in place until the completion of SLI. That question has been vetted through several lawyers and under the RLA, USAPA would complete SLI.

And I'll bite on your last question. ALPA represented the East pilots on the first merger and the APA will represent AMR pilots on the second merger... Your point?

 

[PullUp]

You are beginning to understand grasshopper.

Enforce the 2005 TA as written. The TA that says the seniority will be the arbitrated list.

The arbitrated list is the Nicolau. Glad you finally admit the reality. Judge Silver will enforce the TA meaning the Nicolau award.

The seniority list in LOA96 is one section of a contract. Ok, so the company has accepted section 22....but what about the other sections? Like the pay, sick, vacation, etc. that is the quid pro quo for the company's ability to integrate the fleets and staff?
This MOU isn't it. LOA96 is built on the premise of a section 6 RLA negotiation process to a ratified contract that everyone votes on.
Since that will never happen (oh, I guess it could, if Parker really wanted this thing over with), the MOU states two lists after POR, status quo until the AA contractual provisions can be implemented, then M/B negotiations for a new AA list.
Guys, we voted overwhelmingly to GIVE UP our current contracts at the POR date in exchange for higher wages, remember?
Sorry, not ripe, never will be. The judge is trying to get AOL to settle and drop the lawsuit, even though it is not ripe. The money boys do not want this going to the 9th circuit and wasting more time. They've got a 10 billion dollar deal riding on this. What do YOU think will happen?

 

[PullUp]

We will decide who represnts our interests. Thanks for your concern.

Sorry, that pesky 'federal law' thing you bleat about incessantly says that USAPA is the federally recognized agent for the LCC pilots.
AOL is a subset of USAPA represented pilots, no? Legally, they have no standing to negotiate anything for anyone.

 

[PullUp]

Are you under the misguided idea that a contract defines the corporate structure of an airline?

Just because we work under different contract does not mean that we work for different airlines.

My paycheck says is airways. My airplane says us airways. I fly under the same certificate as you do.

In August or September I am going to be flying airplanes with CFM engines and east pilot stink on the seat. I have pilots based in CLT, PHL and DCA sitting in the crew room in PHX. I pay dues to the same union you do.

Are you saying that usapa does not or should not be representing me?

We work for us airways not separate companies. Get used to the idea. The arbitrators are not going allow the argument that we are separate companies. So I work for a company with WB airplanes and 4 bases. Fact and reality.

And all the LCC pilots are represented by USAPA - period. AOL has no standing in any negotiations for any LCC pilot.
I think USAPA should appeal to the 9th if AOL is granted any type of presence in negotiations going forward.
Or maybe, the new East Army of the Skinny Stripes and Paychecks should mount a lawsuit against AOL. What for? I dunno, make something up - that's what AOL does.

 

[EastUS1]

Or maybe, the new East Army of the Skinny Stripes and Paychecks should mount a lawsuit against AOL. What for? I dunno, make something up - that's what AOL does.

Hmmm...Perhaps loitering and creating a public nuisance?

 

[Bill Brasky]

And all the LCC pilots are represented by USAPA - period. AOL has no standing in any negotiations for any LCC pilot.
I think USAPA should appeal to the 9th if AOL is granted any type of presence in negotiations going forward.
Or maybe, the new East Army of the Skinny Stripes and Paychecks should mount a lawsuit against AOL. What for? I dunno, make something up - that's what AOL does.

Nor were they elected to represent anyone.

 

[AWE Dog]

Your meet and greet got cancelled also. You guys are out of money and got another court to say the Nicolau is not required. Thank you for the opportunity.
It is high time for USAPA to submit a DOH list with PHX protections and end the mess. Sue the company if they refuse it.

Yup, just submit DOH c&r. Army of Who?.. Tell Marty it will be ripe then but if he's not getting paid I don't think he'll care. Go ahead with your DFR, chances slim to none.

 

[nevergiveup]

We will decide who represnts our interests. Thanks for your concern.

The west is more responsible for USAPA being here than the east!

 

[snapthis]

No you won't, will take take care of that for you. The west is represented by USAPA, end of story. 2 lists going into the merge with the APA.

You must mistake me for someone who jumps when you snap your fingers, hence, snap..this.

I'll decide who represents my interests. I pay my dues, decided that I'm not fairly represented, so I along with others sued your union.

As a result, yousapa will answer to Judge Silver.

 

[cleardirect]

Sorry, that pesky 'federal law' thing you bleat about incessantly says that USAPA is the federally recognized agent for the LCC pilots.
AOL is a subset of USAPA represented pilots, no? Legally, they have no standing to negotiate anything for anyone.

When the NMB (federal law) no longer recognizes usapa as the bargaining agent. Usapa no longer represents anyone. The committees go away. Usapa will not be an agent for anyone.

What have you all said for years? The new union gets to decide all things new. The new union APA gets to decide who is on the committees and the new unions C&BL prevail.

East pilots will soon be a subset of APA. Still want to advance your argument? According to usapa all that old union stuff goes away and the new union can decide whatever they want because the majority says so.

Legally east pilots will have no standing to negotiate anything. Are you beginning to understand yet?

 

[nevergiveup]

The snap shot between the east and west is 2005 the time of our merger. The merger between us airways and American is 2013. The new hires go below pilots that were on property in 2005. Just like Nicolau did.

Try and sell DOH all you want. It is still tainted and rotten.

3 separate lists currently in effect!

 

[Keroseneuser]

Looking at the law and reading the transcript it seems pretty clear which way this thing is going.

We are two seperate pilot groups who work for the same company. Under the current T/A there was a process for us to combine, in that process nothing, not a single word of it, is binding until the group voted on it and it passed. The process never made it that far due to the NIC fiasco.

Fast forward 7 years, now we all have voted to get rid of everything that came before and embark on a new process and merge with AA. The agreement that we all voted on very clearly states for all to see that everything that came before it is null and void. It also states that there will be lists for Usairways and a list for APA. it also furthurs that notion be stating that the junior pilot from the east list and the west list will be provided for the furlough protection part of the agreement. Then it stipulates the process by which we will combine those two lists with AA's third group of pilots.

The company has indicated that a 3 way is what they expect after looking at it. The transcripts from tuesday discuss that same scenario, and Judge Silver seemed to like that idea.

In its most basic form that is what we have. An incomplete process that at the date of the POR ceases to exist anywhere. I don't know how Silver will word it or what she will rule, but my money is on a ruling that in the end comes to the same conclusion, 3 way after the POR using the POR date snapshot of the lists. Now her ruling may be a 'kick the can' type that just lets the time elapse till the POR, or it may be something more direct. End result is that she is not going to force the NIC, she can't since the process never completed. By the same token USAPA cannot go into the APA merger negotiations with one single usairways list, that would in effect be the same as forcing the NIC. it cannot happen since that process was never completed.

Now what happens in the 3 way is anybodies guess, DOH with fences? Slotting? Who knows. All I am sure of is that it won't be NIC, It won't be straight DOH. We will end up merging with AA based on where we currently are on each of our 3 seniority lists. Once the POR happens nobody is going to give a flying f%^k what anything looked like last week, much less 8 years ago. Several times in the transcript Judge Silver talked about looking forward not back, I think she is already in that mind set.

Does not matter if you are east or west, top of the list or bottom of the list, come somewhere around september nothing we have discussed and argued about on this thread over the last 8 years is going to mean squat.

Thats the way I see it happening. If Vegas was giving odds on this mess that is where i would put my money.