AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion
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luvthe9
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- Aug 30, 2002
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Nic4 knows it's over is just his fustration coming through. There own reps have said it also.
No worries... I do not take offense to any post on this board with the exception of claxon's slander of AWA.
True I have never bid using the Nic, but, I have also never bid using a usapa contrived seniority re-write. The fact of the matter is if a merger happens, the LCC pilots seniority has already been arbitrated. No arbitrator in the world will just disregard that fact. Perhaps a methodology could be found to offer some sort of protections, but, a reorder of the LCC list will not happen.
Another point you made is that your work group combined via DOH. Was that in your union's CB&Ls? The reason I ask is because there is a very important difference for pilots than most work groups and that is why our CB&Ls mandated a negotiated seniority integration. Now usapa supporters will accuse me of having some sort of superiority complex saying pilots are different. But the fact of the matter is since there are multiple position within the pilot ranks....ie CPT vs. F/O..widebody vs group 1, 2 and e190, etc, and all these different positions have different pay and scheduling issues, seniority does not simply equate to longevity as well as it does in other work groups.
You are a complete moron. The APA does not want LCC attrition. To capture it, they would have to put LCC pilots in front of themselves, which will not be their goal.
I have never denied the methodology of any other work group. Further, the dispatchers were integrated via arbitration, just like the pilots. In their case arbitrator chose to use a DOH methodology, in our case he did not.
Further, the NIc is not the West's bargaining proposal. The Nic is the bargaining proposal of all LCC pilots who entered into the arbitration.
If Silver read the Addington case, which I am relatively certain she has, what she knows is that usapa is the outlier, a group of reneging malcontents, who in judge Wake's words have a way of detaching the facts from reality. (in other words liars and cheats)
PS... if Silver rules in a way favorable to usapa...ya know what happens next? I will go ahead and tell ya....east gets to stay on LOA93 while we work our way through the appeals process.
Speaking of frustration...you should have heard the east pilot telling me he has had enough...that he needs a raise and no longer supports the F/O scab club.
Seems his third son is entering college, and with two others already enrolled he needs a raise NOW.
Get back to me when Silver puts the usapa seniority theft plan to rest. Would not want to think you did yourself any harm.
traderjake
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cltrat
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- Aug 29, 2007
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nic to answer your question without wasting bandwidth on a quote yes it was in our CBA in DOH
while I won't pretend to understand the ins and outs of pilot bidding why wouldn't a person with more seniority be able to bid the higher paying A/C types etc?
while I won't pretend to understand the ins and outs of pilot bidding why wouldn't a person with more seniority be able to bid the higher paying A/C types etc?
I think it is a given that east and west are going to stay on their current payscales and seperate until the final word is out on the AA thing. It is in Tempes best interest to do so and no matter what Silver says on OCT 2nd we will be exactly where we are now however many years it takes tempe and AA to figure out what they are doing.
Until Parker has to he is not going to do anything that he does not have to that will cost him more money. even if the east wins the 3% longevity raises it is cheaper for Doug to remain seperate ops.
Follow the money to see what Tempe will do, its that simple.
Sounds as selfish as the west! I would never sell out my FO for a pay raise. Would you?
luvthe9
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- Aug 30, 2002
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Speaking of frustration...you should have heard the west captain (must have been senoir)telling me he has had enough...that he needs a raise and no longer supports the anrgy AWA F/O scab club.
Seems his third son is entering college, and with two others already enrolled he needs a raise NOW.
Get back to me when Silver puts the NIC seniority theft plan to rest. Would not want to think you did yourself any harm.
CallawayGolf
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- Nov 13, 2009
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The NIC integrated two separate seniority lists into one so this affirms the point I don't think you intended to make. The only deviation from this was to protect the top 517 east pilots flying WB which results in every west pilot losing seniority status in relation to their east counterparts with an equivalent pre-merger status. The east gained seniority at the expense of the west under the NIC but that just wasn't good enough for those who wanted to go from a furloughed status to a line-holding captain by displacing a line-holding west captain and pushing him as far down the list as possible.
Selfish? The F/O's get raises as well. Or did USAPA tell you something different?
Is this really the question a USAPA cheerleader is asking? Seriously?Had you gents and ladies stood as a group, gone all-in with the issue, taken your chances and simply said "screw you!..fire us all then!"...you would have earned my honest respect...but...you didn't, and instead, folded up entirely on the issue. If it's your feeling that witholding dues is again appropriate...well...it's really none of my business to suggest what to do.
Seriously; just how much of a free ride through life should anyone truly feel entitled to?
While you often attempt to make yourself slightly more irritating (if that is possible - and it is) by referring to posts as "Joke of the Day" might I posit that truly the Joke of the Industry and one that never fails to bring a smile to my old wrinkled face, is the one about the emotional pilot group who took one the highest pay rates in the industry and imploded into the lowest AND tossed their pension on the fire to boot, all for nothing. Then they formed a union whose goal was to avoid getting a new contract and a pay raise. The punch line is USAPA!
Now think for a second, junior, about what you wished for in your post. If the West pilots had been locked out (which USAPA would have forced Parker to do) the airline would have immediately folded up. AMR is sweating out the cancellation of 3% of their flights and they are in BK. Lose 35% of your flights and there won't be sufficient cash to make it through a week. Of course, you could have brought in your furloughees and replacements, but then the'd have to change the name of the airline to Ansett, and you know how you like to pass off the specious notion that you have no scabs among you.
I'd say you're off by abut 3500.
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