Dallas Love Field

Discussion in 'Southwest Airlines/Airtran Airways' started by WNMECH, Nov 3, 2015.

  1. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    Not only is Alaska NOT bailing out Southwest or Delta in Dallas, it now appears as if Alaska wants an all out fare war at Dallas Love Field. This could get very interesting and of coarse will end up favoring the passengers big time. The threat has been made, now let's sit back and watch how Southwest will respond. Sounds to me as it will get very cheap $$ to fly to the west coast from DLF as well as DFW. This fare war will indeed reach DFW and it's carriers. Here lies the question, will Delta get in on the fare wars? I doubt it as they only fly to Atl. from DLF and I am not sure if they fly from DFW to the west coast.


    Alaska Airlines expands flights to Love Field in Dallas, steps up competition withSouthwest
     
  2. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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  3. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    Most of Alaska's aircraft will be switched to smaller aircraft. There are some folks out there that refuse to fly on them regional jets. Not sure if they will get the passengers to come over from Virgins current comfy seats on the airbus down to a regional. Yes I do understand that they have different classes, but that's only 10-12 seats and of coarse with a rather large up charge to get them. The small business owners that are still looking for the best cost structure will pass and more than likely gravitate over to Southwest larger aircraft seating. With this new route structure for Alaska, and the change to regional jets, they are actually decreasing seat capacity on most all the routes that Virgin was supplying. An odd move by Alaska, but it is what they are thinking is best for them and hey, it very well may be. But I still think another round of air fare wars are coming to Dallas Love Field.

    BusinessThe Motley Fool
    Alaska Air Targets the Dallas Business-Travel Market -- The Motley Fool
     
  4. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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  5. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    Although a ways away, the battle over gate 15 continues. Only now Southwest is now looking at going after the 2 other gates that are being leased by Virgin. The correct phrase would be "challenge" for the gates. I know Southwest desperately needs more gates at LF, and I still say maybe all the airlines could get together and at least expand to say 6 more gates to help all 3 airlines get some gates. You know a compromise to the 32 gates originally requested, and give each of the 3 airlines 2 more gates each, this way Delta would have 2 gates, Virgin/Alaska would have 4 gates and Southwest would have 20 gates. There, problem solved, how easy was that? Jury trial looks to be started some time in 2018.


    Exclusive: Southwest Airlines seeking to expand dominance at Dallas Love Field
     
  6. B737 driver

    B737 driver Veteran

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    Hopefully we have the better legal team, should be interesting to watch !
     
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  7. jimntx

    jimntx Veteran

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    #37 jimntx, Sep 6, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
    Swamt, I don't think it will be all that easy. Isn't there a legal restriction on the total number of gates at LF that involves the service at DFW? It's not just up to the airlines how many gates there are. I don't remember exactly what the restrictions are, but I'm sure that LF is already maxed out on the total number of gates allowed. Oh, and IIRC, the Virgin gates actually "belong" to AA. As the current agreements stand, AA can not use them, but I'd be willing to bet they have no interest in divesting them.

    Found it! From Dallas Morning News editorial https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/...n-love-field-gates-and-leave-compromise-alone

    "In 2006, the locals struck a compromise to end Wright, and Southwest legend Herb Kelleher said, “There must be hope for world peace.” The new law, approved by Congress, allowed nonstop flights throughout the country — but not until October 2014. It also reduced the number of gates at Love from 32 to 20, prohibited international traffic, and set a curfew against overnight flights."

    All of the restrictions in bold typeface were a sop to AA and the good folk of Highland Park who didn't like common airplanes flying over their neighborhoods--particularly at night. The folks of Highland Park have not moved, and I'd be willing to bet cash money that AA probably would not compromise to help WN or DL have an easier life and make more money at LF. I don't know if these restrictions are still in force. The little airport that could has been in court so many times the past few years over this issue, I've lost track of what is/is not true.

    If those restrictions are lifted, AA will probably insist on its right to fly from LF again using its gates. Now how smart that would be is not for me to judge. I know WN cleaned our clock when we attempted to provide service on the Love Field-STL route several years ago.
     
  8. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    Yes, the gates are currently restricted to 20. What I was proposing was that all 3 airlines could get together and all 3 request that the gate total be increased thru the courts and the 5 parties involved. It would be easier that way with 3 airlines rather than just one airline asking for more gates.
     
  9. jimntx

    jimntx Veteran

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    To which 3 airlines are you referring? (Note that as an English major I did not end the sentence with a preposition.:))
    I can name at least 5 who would argue in your "simple" court case that more gates at LF are the key to their long-term existence, much less improved service and lower prices for their customers. Anything that benefits WN and DL will be objected to by AA. If it benefits WN and AA, then DL will be suing by noon the next day--"It's not fair, Daddy Judge. You ALWAYS let WN and AA have whatever they want." Virgin will want some of whatever anybody else gets. United, the same. And, if it means more flights over Highland Park, there's gonna be some serious oil money paid out for the benefit of stopping future expansion, period. Too bad Solomon has gone to his reward. We could use him to slice LF into equal parts, and we would find out who the real mother is.:rolleyes:
     
  10. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    The 3 I was referring to are SWA, Delta, and Virgin/Alaska (when combined as one). I know other airlines may want in but I only referred to the existing airlines already there, and not saying other airlines won't get in, if gates get added there will be others proposing to get in at LF. Not sure if United would come back but I know AA would like to, and maybe JB or Spirit would want to come in.
     
  11. jimntx

    jimntx Veteran

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    And, because of the desirability of LF gates, there will never be enough of them, and no airline will ever be happy with any gate space allocation that does not include more gates for them. I know that at some point there was talk of no exclusive use gates at all at LF, that everyone would be (basically) first-come-first-served. IMHO, that way lies chaos.
     
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  12. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    You know, it's kind of funny. At one time (back in the early 70's) almost all the airlines didn't want anything to do with LF after the new international DFW airport was built. Even years after Southwest stated up Airlines still wanted nothing to do with LF. Then all of a sudden the other airlines stared noticing how successful Southwest was doing, even with the restrictions put upon them by the W/A. Now with the W/A almost entirely gone, airlines are now fighting tooth and nails to try and stay or get in at LF. Helll, delta is spending billions to try and keep an illegal residency of gate 15. And I do know that AA would still be there if it were not for the agreement to leave under the restrictions brought onto them for the merger with US Airways. I am still a little amazed that United left, but, heck, for 120 million for 2 gates for Southwest had a lot of encouragement for them to leave.
    Jim, I actually hope that sometime in the future the LF gates will increase, but I don't see that happening unless other airlines are allowed to come in. With quieter planes getting produced I think this will help the expansion later on. After the W/A went away SWA's load factor out of LF has jumped and maintained in the mid 95% range. It has also done well for the other LF airlines. Just proves there is the demand.
     
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  13. jimntx

    jimntx Veteran

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    The mistake that other airlines keep making is they think that Love Field itself (and its proximity to downtown Dallas) is the secret to WN's success. WN is a resounding success because it is a beautifully managed airline with incredibly gifted employees. If WN were forced to fly out of DFW, they would STILL be a successful airline (maybe not quite as financially successful--the landing fees at DFW being somewhat higher than Love Field :rolleyes:). How else does one explain their success in Chicago, and LA, and Houston, and Fort Lauderdale, and so on and so forth? Not judgin'. Just sayin'.
     
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  14. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    LF is only one of the secrets. I honestly think the other airlines never thought Southwest would get that far that soon, they just kind of put Southwest back on the back burner never thinking they would get as big as they did.
     
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  15. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    Another filing in the Love Field fiasco. I will say that so far Delta has successfully extended their illegal stay at LF by 2.5 years. It does make more sense putting Delta with Alaska as they are not using their gates as much as Southwest is and yes it would be more efficient as well. They really need to settle this crap soon because SWA wants to grow to 13 flights per day (so they say).

    Southwest to Dallas: Make Alaska Airlines share Love Field gates with Delta
     
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