Delta, Alaska Airlines Fight For Market Share In Seattle

[WorldTraveler]

did you miss the part about DL's comments about excess INTERNATIONAL capacity growth?

It's the same comment that Lufthansa made a couple weeks ago as well.

Same thing happened then with network airlines going down and domestic low fare carriers faring better.



it is also worth noting that DL is the most DOMESTIC of the 3 legacy carriers because DL gets such a high fare premium in its key markets.

excess int'l capacity is not good for anyone but it was bound to happen after several years of AA's need to expand its network and being willing to settle for below average yields to do so in its growth markets.

also, much of the gains by the legacy carriers yesterday were unwound today. the week isn't over but the overall result is not as big as a single day would lead one to believe and

"Cowen analysts Helane Becker and Conor Cunningham think that with Delta expecting $1.5 billion in free cash flow for the quarter, net debt below $8.0 billion, and dividends and share repurchases in place, “this sell-off is an opportunity for investors to buy these shares.” Cowen’s price target of $45 is 18% above the current price near $38."

wow.... $1.5 BILLION in free cash flow for one quarter.

just wow.

I believe that is more than AS' total quarterly revenue... but feel free to double check my quick mental math.

 

[WNMECH]

did you miss the part about DL's comments about excess INTERNATIONAL capacity growth?It's the same comment that Lufthansa made a couple weeks ago as well.Same thing happened then with network airlines going down and domestic low fare carriers faring better.it is also worth noting that DL is the most DOMESTIC of the 3 legacy carriers because DL gets such a high fare premium in its key markets.excess int'l capacity is not good for anyone but it was bound to happen after several years of AA's need to expand its network and being willing to settle for below average yields to do so in its growth markets.also, much of the gains by the legacy carriers yesterday were unwound today. the week isn't over but the overall result is not as big as a single day would lead one to believe and"Cowen analysts Helane Becker and Conor Cunningham think that with Delta expecting $1.5 billion in free cash flow for the quarter, net debt below $8.0 billion, and dividends and share repurchases in place, this sell-off is an opportunity for investors to buy these shares. Cowens price target of $45 is 18% above the current price near $38."wow.... $1.5 BILLION in free cash flow for one quarter.just wow.I believe that is more than AS' total quarterly revenue... but feel free to double check my quick mental math.

I was pointing out that daily fluctuations in the stock market mean nothing.

I didn't see you claiming how great investors wanted DAL stock when it dropped to 50 cents a share and then all shares were canceled and became worth zero.

Of course that is because Delta went bankrupt.

Do some mental math on that.

Then they ripped off stock holders, creditors, retirees and the rest of us taxpayers.

Wow,
Just Wow.

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, and the only thing that keeps WN from having been in the same place is because they weren't around 80 years ago when the industry was regulated.

Instead, they came along and took advantage of deregulation to pay their employees pay less than what legacy carriers were paying at the time.

and then they dressed them up in very short pants... I mean how totally UN LEGACY can you get.

Even WN's employees today would never stoop to those lows in order to help the company succeed.

and who do you think subsidized WN's fuel hedge gains ten years ago - when they were pricing well below their otherwise normal costs?

does your mental math include the factor of who got ripped off so WN could start new service into a bunch of markets - which in many cases they had to cancel after the hedge gains ended and they had to price their product at, oh wait, their actual costs.

of course there are daily fluctuations in the market.

you wanna leave it at that or should we keep going?

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

If you really wanted me to agree to share the platform with you - or perhaps even walk away for a few days at a time - then you would start a campaign to be done with the mudslinging and reverse the negative votes that you spent so much time trying to accrue for me.

In the meantime, I'll be the expert on pickle relish in Germany, fuel prices in Thailand, and airline economics in the English speaking internet world.

 
Are you saying that if nobody responds to your diatribes, you will go away?

 

[700UW]

yes, and the only thing that keeps WN from having been in the same place is because they weren't around 80 years ago when the industry was regulated.

Instead, they came along and took advantage of deregulation to pay their employees pay less than what legacy carriers were paying at the time.

and then they dressed them up in very short pants... I mean how totally UN LEGACY can you get.

Even WN's employees today would never stoop to those lows in order to help the company succeed.

and who do you think subsidized WN's fuel hedge gains ten years ago - when they were pricing well below their otherwise normal costs?

does your mental math include the factor of who got ripped off so WN could start new service into a bunch of markets - which in many cases they had to cancel after the hedge gains ended and they had to price their product at, oh wait, their actual costs.

of course there are daily fluctuations in the market.

you wanna leave it at that or should we keep going?

 
 
 
1978 is when deregulation ended.
 
And WN took to the skies after a heavy legal battle and started flying on June 18, 1971.
 
I believe they know what regulation is all about and more so than any other airline as they had a legal challenge to start and then the Wright Amendment.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.
 
http://www.swamedia.com/channels/By-Date/pages/history-by-date

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Instead, they came along and took advantage of deregulation to pay their employees pay less than what legacy carriers were paying at the time.

 

Some might call that 'winning' .....

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

1978 is when deregulation ended.

 
I'm sure WT is working on a qualifying statement which will prove he was right all along! 

 

[WorldTraveler]

qualifying statement?

 

1978 is when deregulation ended.
 
And WN took to the skies after a heavy legal battle and started flying on June 18, 1971.
 
I believe they know what regulation is all about and more so than any other airline as they had a legal challenge to start and then the Wright Amendment.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.
 
http://www.swamedia.com/channels/By-Date/pages/history-by-date

do you have a clue what the words "regulated" and "deregulated" mean?

the US domestic airline industry was REGULATED prior to 1978 and DEREGULATED in that year.

DEREGULATION means the market and not the government decides prices and schedules.

WN was an INTRASTATE airline before 1978.

The federal government didn't regulate intrastate fares even before deregulation.


and we have people who say they spent decades in the airline industry who don't understand those basic facts?

I have to frame this one.

to be so frickin arrogant and wrong at the same is simply breathtaking.

 

[700UW]

WN flew for seven years under REGULATION, which protected airlines.
 
Those airlines were regulated by the governments of the states in which they operated, intrastate.
 
And by the way, where does 80 years come from?
 
The Civil Aeronautics Board was established in 1938, and ended their regulation of the Airlines in 1978.
 
Lets do some math:
 
 
1978-1938=40, so the airlines were only regulated for 40 years.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.
 
A little WN history:
 

 
The Civil Aeronautics Board begins hearings in Washington, D.C., January 31, on Midway (Southwest) Airway Co. application to serve the STL, MCI, Detroit, Minneapolis/St. Paul, CLE, and Pittsburgh from Midway Airport at fares as much as 53% lower than rates currently charged. Midway (Southwest) is the subsidiary company of Southwest that filed application before the CAB on December 10, 1976 for a Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity to service the high-density air markets out of Chicago's Midway and the cities of Minneapolis/St. Paul, Pittsburgh, MCI, and CLE would be $25 Pleasure Class, $40 Executive Class. If Midway (Southwest) should be granted authority to serve the proposed routes, nine Boeing 737's would be needed. M. Lamar Muse, President of Southwest, estimates that early 1979 would be the soonest operation could begin.

So what were you saying about WN and not falling under the CAB and Regulation?

 

[WorldTraveler]

you are breathtakingly IGNORANT.

As an intrastate airline, Southwest did not operate under the control of the US Civil Aeronautics Board.

Its economic activities were regulated by the Texas Aeronautics Commission.

Go back and read the history that you just linked and you will see references to both governmental organizations. Look at the cities that WN intended to serve in its applications to both entities.

Deregulation in 1978 was a FEDERAL LAW.

forget the math. You don't even half the concepts even close to right.

AND YOU CLAIM YOU REPRESENT A UNION THAT WANTS TO NEGOTIATE FOR DELTA EMPLOYEES.

NO THANKS. EVER.

ps... Delta just celebrated 85 years of service. 1929 + 49 takes you to deregulation.

DL operated longer under deregulation than it has since.

but since you don't even understand the concepts regarding regulation of the industry, we'll just skip that lesson for now.

 

[700UW]

And here is some more:
 

Southwest files application with the Texas Aeronautics Commission seeking new route authority to serve AMA and Beaumont/Port Arthur/Orange. The Civil Aeronautics Board gives tentative approval to Midway (Southwest) prospect to start commuter service at MDW to serve the cities of Detroit, STL, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Pittsburgh, MCI, and CLE.
 
Southwest files application with the Civil Aeronautics Board requesting authority to provide non-stop flights between DAL and MSY.
 
Southwest receives final approval from the CAB for Midway (Southwest) Airway Co. to serve the cities of STL, MCI, Detroit, Minneapolis/St. Paul, CLE and Pittsburgh from MDW.
 
The Civil Aeronautics Board grants Southwest HOU - MSY authority under the dormant route provision of the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978.
 

Shall I continue to show you, that you are incorrect?

 

[700UW]

you are breathtakingly IGNORANT.

As an intrastate airline, Southwest did not operate under the control of the US Civil Aeronautics Board.

Its economic activities were regulated by the Texas Aeronautics Commission.

Go back and read the history that you just linked and you will see references to both governmental organizations. Look at the cities that WN intended to serve in its applications to both entities.

Deregulation in 1978 was a FEDERAL LAW.

forget the math. You don't even half the concepts even close to right.

AND YOU CLAIM YOU REPRESENT A UNION THAT WANTS TO NEGOTIATE FOR DELTA EMPLOYEES.

NO THANKS. EVER.

Go back and read both my posts again, shows exactly how WN was dealing with the CAB.
 

The Civil Aeronautics Board begins hearings in Washington, D.C., January 31, on Midway (Southwest) Airway Co. application to serve the STL, MCI, Detroit, Minneapolis/St. Paul, CLE, and Pittsburgh from Midway Airport at fares as much as 53% lower than rates currently charged. Midway (Southwest) is the subsidiary company of Southwest that filed application before the CAB on December 10, 1976 for a Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity to service the high-density air markets out of Chicago's Midway and the cities of Minneapolis/St. Paul, Pittsburgh, MCI, and CLE would be $25 Pleasure Class, $40 Executive Class. If Midway (Southwest) should be granted authority to serve the proposed routes, nine Boeing 737's would be needed. M. Lamar Muse, President of Southwest, estimates that early 1979 would be the soonest operation could begin.
 
Southwest files application with the Texas Aeronautics Commission seeking new route authority to serve AMA and Beaumont/Port Arthur/Orange. The Civil Aeronautics Board gives tentative approval to Midway (Southwest) prospect to start commuter service at MDW to serve the cities of Detroit, STL, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Pittsburgh, MCI, and CLE.
 
Southwest files application with the Civil Aeronautics Board requesting authority to provide non-stop flights between DAL and MSY.
 
Southwest receives final approval from the CAB for Midway (Southwest) Airway Co. to serve the cities of STL, MCI, Detroit, Minneapolis/St. Paul, CLE and Pittsburgh from MDW.
 
The Civil Aeronautics Board grants Southwest HOU - MSY authority under the dormant route provision of the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978.
 
 

 
Learn to read and comprehend, I posted FACTS.
 
Glad to see you are name calling, and you are the one who is wrong.
 
And you are lying again, I dont speak for the IAM nor do I work for them, keep up the lies.
 
Hey do you work for Delta currently?
 
Are you in ACS or Inflight?

 

[WorldTraveler]

NO you are CONFUSED, IGNORANT, and BELLIGERENT.

WN NEVER operated outside of Texas until AFTER 1978 and deregulation.
 

1978 is when deregulation ended.

and that statement is categorically wrong.

admit you are clueless and move on.

the further you try to dig, the more opportunities I have to prove how clueless you are

REGULATION ended in 1978.

Period.

 

And WN took to the skies after a heavy legal battle and started flying on June 18, 1971.

and the legal battles were not because of WN's INTERSTATE activities - which didn't exist.

they were because of WN's desire to use Love Field.


read this entry from June 1971

"The Civil Aeronautics Board (CAB), refusing to interfere..."

the CAB was a federal agency which did not apply to WN's activities in Texas.

WN's legal battles were ENTIRELY based on Texas law and regulation.

 

[700UW]

The Civil Aeronautics Board begins hearings in Washington, D.C., January 31, on Midway (Southwest) Airway Co. application to serve the STL, MCI, Detroit, Minneapolis/St. Paul, CLE, and Pittsburgh from Midway Airport at fares as much as 53% lower than rates currently charged. Midway (Southwest) is the subsidiary company of Southwest that filed application before the CAB on December 10, 1976 for a Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity to service the high-density air markets out of Chicago's Midway and the cities of Minneapolis/St. Paul, Pittsburgh, MCI, and CLE would be $25 Pleasure Class, $40 Executive Class. If Midway (Southwest) should be granted authority to serve the proposed routes, nine Boeing 737's would be needed. M. Lamar Muse, President of Southwest, estimates that early 1979 would be the soonest operation could begin.
 
Southwest files application with the Texas Aeronautics Commission seeking new route authority to serve AMA and Beaumont/Port Arthur/Orange. The Civil Aeronautics Board gives tentative approval to Midway (Southwest) prospect to start commuter service at MDW to serve the cities of Detroit, STL, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Pittsburgh, MCI, and CLE.
 
Southwest files application with the Civil Aeronautics Board requesting authority to provide non-stop flights between DAL and MSY.
 
Southwest receives final approval from the CAB for Midway (Southwest) Airway Co. to serve the cities of STL, MCI, Detroit, Minneapolis/St. Paul, CLE and Pittsburgh from MDW.
 
The Civil Aeronautics Board grants Southwest HOU - MSY authority under the dormant route provision of the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978.

 

[WorldTraveler]

what a tool.

you can't admit you are wrong.

the airline industry was regulated before 1978, not deregulated.

Are we the least bit surprised.

WN NEVER OPERATED OUTSIDE OF TEXAS BEFORE THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY WAS DEREGULATED REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY APPLICATIONS THEY FILED

Delta operated longer under the regulated era (49 years) than WN has operated as an airline (43 years).

You're gonna see references to this thread for a long time to come.

It is the IAM at its finest.