Delta loads new DAL flights

[WorldTraveler]

What popped in my mind was that maybe the feds wont give DL a second chance in the N Texas market....

the feds don't have the right to dictate DL's participation in the N. Texas market.... DL's share of the DFW market alone continues to grow.

Meanwhile, DL's flights from DAL are still for sale and they continue to carry passengers from DAL.  
 

Very sad indeed Robbed.
 
Hey E, Bet SWA would support the 2ndary airport in Atlanta.  I did not read the entire articles you posted, but do you have an idea how close the two airports would be?   Maybe someone should start a poll on it?  They start'em on everything else it seems like...

the 2nd airport is way out in the stix and is not an option for the vast majority of people in Atlanta.
And if ANY airline starts service from Paulding County, you can bet your bottom dollar that DL will show up with a small contingent of its fleet to operate right alongside that carrier.

DL will never be stupid enough to do what AA allowed to be done in their backyard.

Instead of worrying about the 2nd airport that may or may not even be an option, how about WN figure out how to compete from the one that they spent billions of dollars buying into as well as be willing to allow ANY competitor

 

[commavia]

Hahahaha.  The glorious and unstoppable Delta's share of the "N. Texas market" continues to grow ... to a whopping 3.6% in 2013!  AA and Southwest must be mortified!  I am so happy to see that this comical hole is still being dug further and further.  I cannot wait to look back, in a few years, and laugh at this whole business about Delta "[winning] in N. Texas" (a la Delta "finishing off" JAL "once and for all," etc.).  You couldn't pay for this comedy - the gift that just keeps on giving!

 

[WorldTraveler]

and once again, you have no clue what the N. Texas market actually is.

No one gives a rats fat fanny about all the passengers that AA brings into DFW only to have them run across a couple square miles of desert wasteland - if AA doesn't cancel the flight on them first.

You would very much like to believe that it was all a joke - but it is a bad dream that you can't shake. DL has pushed AA into the basement of the NYC market, is gunning for their top markets at LAX, and continues to take key revenue from DFW, MIA, LHR and, yes, NRT.

You do realize that the JV that you and others said would be AA's savior hasn't been enough to allow AA to keep its own metal in the NYC-TYO market? Can you give us the reduction in capacity by AA and JL combined since DL and NW merged and restarted JFK-NRT?

Can you explain why AA can't even operate its own service on a daily basis on ORD-NRT? What is the combined reduced capacity for the AA/JL duo in that market?

 

[700UW]

The new AA is not at the bottom in NYC.
 
Keep up the misinformation.

 

[commavia]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if this is what now constitutes (allegedly) the "best in commercial aviation" analysis, then my how the never-as-mighty-as-they-thought-they-were have fallen.  I realize that we're to believe Delta is supposedly capable of weaving gold out of certain sanctimonious internet forum morons' B.S., but in this case, it's just that - B.S.  No, Delta is not going to "win" North Texas - now or anytime soon.  Delta is such a tiny, tiny presence in the market up against far, far larger carriers that it has no chance.  None.
 
I don't know what's more sad (and funny) - the fact that we have to be treated to lectures about the North Texas market, despite the fact that myself and many others have actually lived here much or all of our lives, or the fact that the fear and insecurity about the closing gap between precious Delta and its competitors has now already become so clear that we have to be constantly reminded of how great Delta is - even ways not only highly debatable but also breathtakingly irrelevant.  Fear, fear, fear - plain and simple.

 

[WorldTraveler]

so, how does AA have a chance of winning in NYC if it is behind two megacarriers... exactly the same positioning that DL finds itself in in N. Texas?

Funny how you can think that DL is so much worse off in N. Texas but you can't admit how far AA has fallen in NYC. Even other AA fans were shocked that new AA will deploy hard-won slots at LGA to add service to tiny little secondary and tertiary airports while reducing service into key DL and UA hubs.

THAT is NOT winning.

As much as you want to believe otherwise, DL and UA BOTH get higher average fares on the routes they serve from DFW than AA does.

I'm not sure what you call winning but when your competitors can get better revenue from your customers than you can out of the 2nd largest airline hub in the world which you call your own, something is seriously wrong.

and, yes, 700, AA is well below DL and UA in NYC - all 3 airports - whether you look at local traffic or total traffic boarded (including connections). AA was below B6 as well and it is ONLY because of the merger that new AA got a reprieve from being kept in the #4 position in NYC.

since commavia wanted to go down that road, I am waiting for a response from him as to why the AA/JL JV wasn't able to help AA keep any of its own metal in any NYC-TYO route and what the total reduction in capacity is for AA and JL are from ORD and JFK to TYO.

 

[eolesen]

Deflecting to NYC instead of staying on topic, eh?

 

[robbedagain]

that fits his narrative E   only when it fits his narrative it works   for any one else who does that  its all flat out wrong  

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Deflecting to NYC instead of staying on topic, eh?

A thread he started on Delta at DAL thinking it was a ...wait for it... Winner!

With the debate lost, he reaches into his bag of typical tricks...saying people cannot possibly grasp the issues, and changing the topic to something completely irrelevant to the thread topic he started.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I could have sworn I just read a post by someone wanting to throw the AA/JL JV into the discussion as if it was some evidence that DL actually lost something.

In fact, AA/JL's joint capacity between the time of the DL/NW merger and now from JFK-TYO (both airports) is down by very large double digits. Neither DL or NW even flew NYC-TYO at the time of the merger.

THAT is winning. NOT.

what has happened in NYC and what is happening in LAX and on the west coast is HIGHLY relevant to the discussion of what DL can and can't do in key AA markets, including DFW where DL and UA both have revenue premiums to AA in the direct markets that each serve.

It is no surprise that AA and its fan club like the notion of keeping DL in a tiny little box where they can inflict no damage on AA - as they have done elsewhere - and also don't want to see DL at DAL, where DL is and will be the only airline that will serve multiple markets from both airports.

 

[commavia]

Haha - keep digging.  So blinded by hatred and fear you can't even keep your own B.S. straight.
 
The reason I brought up JAL was not to hear yet another diatribe about capacity trends between JFK and NRT, which is completely irrelevant to this discussion.  It was to remind us of how spectacularly wrong you were with similarly ridiculous premonitions in the past as you launched off on another baseless prediction about Delta "winning" DFW.  Since you want to relive your past predictive shortcomings, just to refresh everyone's memory, you weren't making predictions four years ago about Delta's share of JFK-NRT - the visionary "best in commercial aviation analysis" circa February 7, 2010 was:
 
"DL still is the largest foreign airline in Japan and will still operate more than enough flights to depress yields over the Pacific and in Japan as long as it takes to finish Japan Airlines off once and for all.... and in the meantime, DL will be pulling traffic left and right off of JL and AA."
 
You were immediately called on the above garbage four years ago, and, as history has shown, very rightly so.  Delta is steadily pulling down the NRT hub, and JAL is more profitable than Delta.  And now, many are again calling you on the latest, equally comical, Delta fantasies.  No, Delta will not be "winning" in the Metroplex unless AA and Southwest cease to exist.  I have absolutely no doubt that, four years from now, we'll be looking back at this lunacy and listening to a diatribe - subject conveniently changed, of course - about how what you really meant all along was that Delta is likely to increase its share of the local DAL-ATL market by five basis points.
 
{rolls eyes}

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

the 2nd airport is way out in the stix and is not an option for the vast majority of people in Atlanta.

 
And here is where you show your ignorance of the Atlanta market. That airport, far from the stix, is actually located adjacent to the center of Atlanta's purchasing power. The vast majority of middle class, upper-middle class, and wealthy Atlanta-area residents (you know, the ones who fly a lot, and spend money on premium tickets, too) live in the NORTH part of the metro, and I'm sure would jump at the chance to no longer drive all the way to the other, dumpier side of the metropolitan region to catch a plane.
 

so, how does AA have a chance of winning in NYC if it is behind two megacarriers... exactly the same positioning that DL finds itself in in N. Texas?
 

 
NYC is an order of magnitude bigger market than North Texas, stop being specious.

 

[commavia]

NYC is an order of magnitude bigger market than North Texas, stop being specious.

 
Yep.  And not to mention - the combined new AA is a very strong #3 in the metro NYC market, offering (as of 2013) fully 66% of the capacity of #1 United, and 78% of #2 Delta, compared to the 5% of AA's capacity, and and 31% of Southwest's capacity, that Delta offers in the metro DFW market.  The NYC market is not only substantially larger, but also vastly more fragmented, with no single carrier having more than 25% market share, whereas AA alone has 75% of the DFW market.  The AA share in NYC will come down with the LGA slot divestitures, but not nearly that much.
 
But let's just continue redefining "winning" as we go along ...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Who is the one with hatred here? Looks to me like you are STILL unable to admit that it is DL who is wining in the Japan market despite the hype that you through out there about the AA-JL JV which has clearly failed to help AA gain in the market.

For your information, since YOU brought up the subject of Japan - which has nothing to do with Dallas but you decided to throw it in anyway so I'll finish it off - DL IS the largest airline both between the US and Japan and the largest foreign airline operating to/from Japan. Those are facts. Further, DL has more seats between the US and Japan than AA and JL combined.

Plz tell us where you came up with JAL's transpacific profitability.

DL provided it via the DOT and they had a 25% profit margin on their Pacific network last summer... and it has consistently been profitable. DL also said that the NRT hub was the most profitable hub in their network in the 2nd quarter of 2013.

In the meantime, AA hasn't posted a single profitable quarter on the Pacific in a real long time.

If AA and JL had anywhere near 25% profit margins flying the Pacific, they wouldn't be pulling down capacity between the US and Japan which is EXACTLY what they have been doing. In the most competitive markets with DL and UA, AA is retreating across the Pacific in the face of perpetual losses.

Fourth quarter DOT data should be out soon and between me and your friends on a.net, you can absolutely bet that AA's walk of shame in its Pacific operations will continue.

Would you like to tell us where AA was in the NYC market in 2005? Perhaps you don't really want to hear that AA was well ahead of DL but now that has completely been reversed.

And again, if it weren't for the merger, AA would be in 4th place - FOURTH FRIGGIN PLACE in their former hometown. And if you think that Parker will hold onto the money losing routes that the former AA leaders did, you will certainly be in for a surprise.

Add in that AA's seats offered from all 3 NYC airports is down 4% this summer while US is down by 1%. The only other airline in worse shape is AirTran which is getting Southwest'd which means a wholescale dismantling.

EVERY other domestic airline in the NYC market - B6, DL, and UA - have more seats for sale this year than last.

Not AA. Not US.

And yes Japan and New York City absolutely do tell how well AA has competed against other airlines.

As much as you HATE to hear it, DL and UA receive higher revenue per seat on the routes they operate from DFW that are directly competitive with AA. Further, DL and UA will both be operating from DAL and DFW while AA and WN will be stuck to their separate corners.

As for you, Ad, last week you were an expert on New York City - but were proven wrong but this week you are an expert on Atlanta - and are still wrong.

Paulding County Georgia is far from anywhere near anything of value in Atlanta. Here is what google maps says although I am sure you have it pictured someplace else.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Paulding+Northwest+Atlanta+Airport/@33.911944,-84.940556,10z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x888acd2b36f5db4b:0x58a10de50036e8f2

The Paulding County airport is 40 miles or more from downtown Atlanta, Lenox Square Mall/Buckhead, and Sandy Springs/Dunwoody/GA 400.

It is further from Marietta - the closest major area in metro Atlanta - to Paulding County airport than it is to ATL.

I don't know where you think the major population and wealth centers are in the metro Atlanta area are but NONE Of them are closer to Paulding County than they are to ATL.

ATL is far closer and is served by dual interstate highways while Paulding county is .

ATL is closer to downtown Atlanta and the Buckhead area than most other major airports are to the major markets they serve in the US. Paulding County airport is well beyond.

It doesn't matter, though. The airport has no future and unlike AA and DAL, DL will never be put in a position where it can't serve an airport in its own state.

 

[commavia]

Nothing quite says "winning" in Japan like the NRT hub not only seeing fewer seats than in the past, but also not to mention having lost service altogether to PUS, CAN, PEK, ICN, KHH and SFO in the last decade.  And now Delta is poised to "win" in North Texas with less than 4% of the market.  Guess we're still making up progressively more fantastical definitions of "winning" as we go along!
 
Anyway, back to the actual topic as opposed to the sideshow tangent designed to divert attention: the questionable and debatable certitude about AA's position in NYC and Japan don't change the fact that Delta WILL NOT be "winning" North Texas as long as AA (and Southwest) exist.  Period.  Keep digging the rhetorical hole deeper - it will just make the recriminations and backpedaling all the more enjoyable to watch in the future!
 
Again - comedy gold!  You can't make this stuff up!