Delta, pilots reach contract deal early

[WorldTraveler]

Dawg,
Where did you come up w/ the idea that I hate labor?
Or perhaps you don't grasp that pilots at most US airlines can make or break an airline's strategic plans - for less so for any other union.
There is clearly some sort of major strategic shift (or perhaps several) that DL is trying to capture by settling the contract so early... the question is which one of the items I listed - or others - are part of it.
Buying airplanes has long been used as a tool to incentivize airline pilots to accept new contracts. Companies usually want to know that they will have labor peace before committing to billions of dollars of new equipment.
I've seen some of the e-mails regarding rates in the new contract as well - and they don't have some EXISTING DL fleet types in them, so I wouldn't jump to any conclusions just yet since they also say that DL is banding groups of a/c together. There are supposedly rates for the Ejets, and I believe there are rates for those in the current contract as well.
Given that DL's position over the Atlantic hasn't changed with the JV, it's kind of hard to argue that a Pacific JV would hurt DL given that DL is not about to give up its position in Japan - already larger than both JL and NH across the Pacific combined - unless DL can get a whole lot more in return - more China/HKG or a share of KE's Pacific revenue, one of the largest carriers in Asia. But supposedly there are much tighter controls for JVs in the contract anywhere. They are not going away.

Despite what some believe, COOPERATION not CONFRONTATION is the basis for improved benefits for all.

 

[metopower]

Dawg,
Where did you come up w/ the idea that I hate labor?
Or perhaps you don't grasp that pilots at most US airlines can make or break an airline's strategic plans - for less so for any other union.
There is clearly some sort of major strategic shift (or perhaps several) that DL is trying to capture by settling the contract so early... the question is which one of the items I listed - or others - are part of it.
Buying airplanes has long been used as a tool to incentivize airline pilots to accept new contracts. Companies usually want to know that they will have labor peace before committing to billions of dollars of new equipment.
I've seen some of the e-mails regarding rates in the new contract as well - and they don't have some EXISTING DL fleet types in them, so I wouldn't jump to any conclusions just yet since they also say that DL is banding groups of a/c together. There are supposedly rates for the Ejets, and I believe there are rates for those in the current contract as well.
Given that DL's position over the Atlantic hasn't changed with the JV, it's kind of hard to argue that a Pacific JV would hurt DL given that DL is not about to give up its position in Japan - already larger than both JL and NH across the Pacific combined - unless DL can get a whole lot more in return - more China/HKG or a share of KE's Pacific revenue, one of the largest carriers in Asia. But supposedly there are much tighter controls for JVs in the contract anywhere. They are not going away.

Despite what some believe, COOPERATION not CONFRONTATION is the basis for improved benefits for all.

 

[southwind]

It wasn't directed at anyone in particular, but feel free to weigh in just the same.

No interest in flying. Dispatch is much more interesting to me; you know they're union as well, right?

Then become a dispatcher..............what's stopping you ?

 

[Kev3188]

...Not wanting to move to ATL, for starters...

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Then become a dispatcher..............what's stopping you ?

A dispatcher will eventually be a server somewhere with a couple of people maintaining the hardware.

 

[eolesen]

Congratulations to the DL pilots for avoiding the pitfalls of their peers.

Because you think you should be able to participate in a public forum and fire potshots at other people and yet remain anonymous?

Oh, that's rich. You seem to think you can participate, fire potshots, and remain anonymous...

Maybe that's why people at the Mothership outed you to me. Did Corp Comm revoke your "eligible for rehire" status yet?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Maybe that's why people at the Mothership outed you to me. Did Corp Comm revoke your "eligible for rehire" status yet?

Oh, that's rich - a former PR lacky presenting himself as an expert on airlines...

To modify one of SparrowHawk's sayings, selling cars doesn't make one a mechanic...

Jim

 

[eolesen]

No, to be fair, he wasn't a corp comm lackey. His skills lie elsewhere, and as far as I know don't include corporate strategy, HR, operations, labor relations, fuel purchasing, maintenance, cabin design, network planning, ACS, procurement, ecommerce or finance.

 

[BoeingBoy]

No, to be fair, he wasn't a corp comm lackey.

I stand corrected.

His skills lie elsewhere, and as far as I know don't include corporate strategy, HR, operations, labor relations, fuel purchasing, maintenance, cabin design, network planning, ACS, procurement, ecommerce or finance.

However, that doesn't leave much room for someone to claim to be an expert on the industry...or at least no more than most who post here.

Jim

 

[WorldTraveler]

What hasn't changed is that you two both have lengthy track records of things you were convinced you had the answers to only to be shown to be wrong.

OTOH, some of us have the wisdom to not comment on things that are beyond our capabilities and for that reason have a much cleaner track record.

Your comments 3 years ago, E, summed it up perfectly.

"I get the last word on this forum."

You've been driven by that inaccurate belief ever since and - your efforts to silence my opposing voice can be seen in every word.


Meanwhile, the contents of the TA are apparently closely guarded but indications seem to be that it will go to the pilots for a vote and DL will likely be able to move forward with several additional strategic objectives, including significantly restructuring its DCI fleet.

 

[eolesen]

You know, Tim, I don't recall saying that. Why not provide a link to the quote and the context, since you've made reference to it several times.

 

[BoeingBoy]

OTOH, some of us have the wisdom to not comment on things that are beyond our capabilities and for that reason have a much cleaner track record.

For someone who comments on subjects for which you say you have no capabilities, your use of "us" is humorous. No different than you telling others that they should "know their place" by sticking to what they know when you so clearly don't. Or claiming to be right so much when you couch what you say in terms that allow you to tap-dance out of being wrong - you say something "may" or "could" happen and if it does you claim to be right but if it doesn't you claim to have never said it "will" or "would" happen.

I think the technical term is "God complex"...

Jim

 

[WorldTraveler]

Except I didn't say I have no capabilities.... I have said there are alot of things I don't know - and anyone who tries to say they can be experts on multiple subjects are exactly the ones who aren't. Experts know their limits.

And once again you twist the words despite the fact that I have repeatedly said that I talked about all of "US" knowing our place to include me. The only way to argue the point is to twist the words I said. After multiple posts on that single quote, there is no doubt what I said or what I intended to say. If you want to continue discussing it, it is because you want to argue or can't comprehend what was written.

Eric,
I could hunt for the quote but suffice it to say that it was within one of our early turf wars and ws one of those things that you hear (or read) from someone that you know will explain alot of things down the right - and that has absolutely been the case.

The real question is what good would be served by adding yet one more chapter to a story that has been more than one month after another of trying to defame each other.... continuing that pattern is not the high road - and I would prefer to find a way for us to coexist in peace on this forum - just as I have before.

I'm not sure what that would require but I can certainly agree that my attempts to judge what you have said and then defame your credibility has done nothing to create peace. I can desist.

Are you really interested in the high road or not?

Or shall we write yet one more chapter?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Except I didn't say I have no capabilities.... I have said there are alot of things I don't know

You have specifically said that you have no expertise about the petroleum business and/or operating refineries, yet you've commented plenty about DL's decision to first study buying a refinery and then deciding to do just that. Yet you say others shouldn't comment on subjects they have no expertise in (and of course, you know what those areas are for others too).

You don't practice what you preach and many people get tired of being told what they're allowed to comment on by someone who doesn't place those same restrictions on themselves. The "do as I say, not as I do" that you demonstrate regularly is the height of hypocrisy...

Jim

 

[WorldTraveler]

No, Jim, I have only said that people should be help accountable for what they say - which means that if it is outside one's area of expertise, it would be wise to ensure you can stand on the position you take.

Other than for the point of argumentation, why do you want to continue to pursue the point? I specifically said that I would not consider again your statements about the capacity of the refinery.