Delta to discontinue ATL-Dubai Flights.

[Kev3188]

Cool story.

 

[WorldTraveler]

facts aren't cool or wow.

They just ARE.

and they either make or break preconceived notions.

ZRH is a much larger market but has 40% of the seats to the US.

The problem with DXB is not product but rather an enormous excess of seats to a market that is far smaller and has less logical connectivity from the US. Those seats are only possible because EK has very preferential financial benefits which allows it to undercut other carriers in the local DXB market and even more cities beyond DXB.

 

[jcw]

Let's get clear - someone said in order to make an international route to work you have to connectivity on both sides of the route - that is flat out not true - how many international flights go to Ireland, the islands, almost all of Europe except (LHR, AMS, CDG, FRA, MAD, FCO) every other city US carriers fly to don't rely on connecting traffic to be successful.  For example, DL flies to FRA and basically has no partners running a hub for connecting traffic in FRA however they are succesful in flying it.  It has nothing to do with the number of seats going into and out of FRA.  If someone wants to play that game AF/KL have tiny countries with outsize seats flying into and out of them AMS is the perfect example of that case.  AMS is no different than DXB in that lots of people connecting through AMS however no one is saying they can't compete to AMS.  It's the double standard argument.  Someone said you have to have connections on both ends and it's just not a fact - many many international routes don't have connections on both ends.

 

[WorldTraveler]

wrong.

absolutely wrong.

no one said anything remotely close to what you think they said

It is no surprise that you come up with what you did when you misread and distort what is said.

Most flights have feed on one end or the other, not both.

ATL-DXB had it on one end for DL; most ME3 flights have it on the ME end.

And AMS is an example of a hub on the European side so flights do have feed on both ends for DL in the AF/KL JV. AMS is not a hub for AA or UA although they both serve AMS.

You talked about ZRH which doesn't have feed on both ends for DL. ZRH is a hub in the Star JV and thus has feed at both ends.

make up your mind what city and carrier you want to pick. You're all over the board. The facts are very different dependent on what city you want to use and for which carrier.

 

[FWAAA]

wrong.

absolutely wrong.

no one said anything remotely close to what you think they said

It is no surprise that you come up with what you did when you misread and distort what is said.

Most flights have feed on one end or the other, not both.

No, here's exactly what you wrote:
 

and the principle remains that whatever hub is being discussed, int'l flights don't exist based on local O&D. There has to be feed on both ends. The ME3 are decimating traffic on US carrier middle east flights.

You wrote that there "has to be feed on both ends." Which is patently false and ridiculous. Lots of long-haul flights exist where only one end features any meaningful feed or connecting traffic. What you should have said is that generally, there has to be feed on at least one end or the other. Not both.

Just admit that you misspoke or wrote something mindlessly stupid and move on.

Of course, monkeys will fly out of everyone's ass before you admit error. We've seen it before. Numerous times.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and you and your ilk throw all logic out the window in order to try to prove someone wrong when you know full well that there are very few ROUTES that have feed on both ends other than JV routes and DL's NRT hub.

There is feed on both ends of hubs but not necessarily on the same route by the same carrier and you know it.

and when jcw jumps from DL to ZRH and then AMS and doesn't know the difference between the two, any chance of making a point is completely lost.

There is NO airline that has equal feed on both ends of a flight from the US to the Middle East but yet even DOT data shows that DL did in fact connect passengers at DXB. Who do you suppose that traffic went on? And you do realize that EK connects traffic at most of its US gateways? How about you look at how much traffic on EK's SEA-DXB route is actually connecting in BOTH SEA and DXB with a whole lot of traffic originating in Canada and PDX.

and yet the feed in the US to US carrier flights is far larger than what ME3 carriers get while US carriers don't come close to connecting as much traffic in the ME as the ME3 carriers do.


When you grow up and stop looking for every reason to find the slightest fault in what someone says to the exclusion of what you know full well is true, we can have an intelligent conversation. until then, you and others sideline yourself to the detriment of all.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

 

When you grow up and stop looking for every reason to find the slightest fault in what someone says to the exclusion of what you know full well is true, we can have an intelligent conversation. until then, you and others sideline yourself to the detriment of all.

 
Would this be the Whole Truth?
 

and the principle remains that whatever hub is being discussed, int'l flights don't exist based on local O&D. There has to be feed on both ends. The ME3 are decimating traffic on US carrier middle east flights.

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, the whole truth was that this is about a lack of feed to support DL's once prosperous flights to DXB which no longer are because EK has far more seats in the market than the local market justifies and they can do it because they have favorable costs - many of them subsidized by their government - so they can undercut carriers in multiple countries.

to try to turn the topic into anything else or deny that reality shows how little you understand the subject or are willing to fight to get in a word regardless of whether it has anything to do with the topic or not.

 

[700UW]

85% load factor and annual profits of $10 million,and yet cant make the route work.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

yes, the whole truth was that this is about a lack of feed to support DL's once prosperous flights to DXB which no longer are because EK has far more seats in the market than the local market justifies and they can do it because they have favorable costs - many of them subsidized by their government - so they can undercut carriers in multiple countries.

to try to turn the topic into anything else or deny that reality shows how little you understand the subject or are willing to fight to get in a word regardless of whether it has anything to do with the topic or not.

 
Approx. 1 out of 3 posts on here are your diatribes.
So is DL leaving DXB because of subsidies the ME3 receive - which is the reason you've spun yourself into in this post, or is DL leaving because as you allege they have no feed at DXB?.  Tough one, as jcw would say.
 

and the principle remains that whatever hub is being discussed, int'l flights don't exist based on local O&D. There has to be feed on both ends. The ME3 are decimating traffic on US carrier middle east flights.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

85% load factor and annual profits of $10 million,and yet cant make the route work.

 
psst ... you do realize that international routes require hubs on both ends to work, don't you? LOL
Also, as some posters have sayth, 'pride cometh before downfall' - perhaps the record load factors and profits came and now it's time for the downfall ... ... ... LOL

 

[WorldTraveler]

just keep holding out hope that DL or I will fall.

what you can't accept is that there are people who understand the business and can understand the decisions that are made and in DL's case make right ones.

What you can't stand is that while DL has nailed one strategic initiative after another, its competitors have fumbled over and over.

your presence here is driven by nothing more than to try to throw dirt and detract from the fact that DL is successful.

85% load factor and annual profits of $10 million,and yet cant make the route work.

So you have access to DL's profit and loss data?

of course you don't. The accuser of fabrications makes one of the biggest lies.

and even if the profits on the route on an annual basis is $10 million, which is nothing but a WAG, then that is likely well below acceptable levels of profitability given that DL is posting 20% operating margins. A $10 million profit - even if true - is likely well short of how DL needs to deploy a very expensive asset in order to generate margins as high as it is generating.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

what you can't accept is that there are people who understand the business and can understand the decisions that are made and in DL's case make right ones.

 
Oh I clearly understand that.
 
What I don't understand is that why somebody like you, that allegedly had a career in the industry spanning several decades, and allegedly is able to accurately speak about the trends in the industry, cold not see DL leaving DXB - and - then proceed to fabricate facts as to why DL dropped the route - and - proceed to spin and dodge and deflect once his blatant BS has been spotted.

 

[700UW]

just keep holding out hope that DL or I will fall.

what you can't accept is that there are people who understand the business and can understand the decisions that are made and in DL's case make right ones.

What you can't stand is that while DL has nailed one strategic initiative after another, its competitors have fumbled over and over.

your presence here is driven by nothing more than to try to throw dirt and detract from the fact that DL is successful.


So you have access to DL's profit and loss data?

of course you don't. The accuser of fabrications makes one of the biggest lies.

and even if the profits on the route on an annual basis is $10 million, which is nothing but a WAG, then that is likely well below acceptable levels of profitability given that DL is posting 20% operating margins. A $10 million profit - even if true - is likely well short of how DL needs to deploy a very expensive asset in order to generate margins as high as it is generating.

See unlike you, I dont use WT's Fabricated Facts.
 

 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2015/10/30/emirates-deltas-dubai-atlanta-route-shouldve-been-moneymaker/74890270/
 

But the Delta planes were 85% full and should have generated a 7% profit margin on the Dubai route, or $10 million per year, according to an Emirates analysis of industry data.
 
“By any airline’s standards, these are lucrative conditions and hardly reason to cease the Atlanta-Dubai service,” Emirates said in a statement. “Our route planners are now closely studying the opportunity for Emirates to fill in the gap when Delta exits the non-stop Atlanta-Dubai service.”
 
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

So we are supposed to trust Emirates, a subsidized carrier, to provide justification as to why DL should still stay in the market.

and again, a $10 million profit, even if EK is correct, is likely not enough to generate the level of returns that DL needs.

and EK is STILL adding capacity so DL can clearly see that performance will continue to erode.

and as much as you want to turn this into a DL only issue, the ME3 is inflicting damage to many airlines.... DL just happens to be very vocal about this issue, like they are with others.


I do appreciate your ability to actually discuss the issue without emotion and name-calling. We could only wish that at least at this moment, you are showing more maturity than others who can't stop throwing dirt long enough to actually discuss the issue - if they are even capable of doing so.