DL and Aeromexico file ATI/JV application

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

This topic started on the DL forum about DL their great upcoming win in Mexico because of the impending JV with AM (which was much more significant than the AF/KL JV etc.)
 
Today this narrative  was repackaged and spun as Mexico doesn't really need the treaty and will walk away but still AM and DL will remain winners despite having no JV.
 
Fast forward to this post where now it apparently isn't a DL issue at all and ofcourse throw in random jibber jabber about AA, DAL and whatever else to deflect from a DL win loss.

not one of the statements you made above coincides with what I have said. not one.

 
OK, lets take a trip down memory lane:
 
Are you going to deny you said this? 
Or was that spectator that was logged on?

- I believe the future will reveal this will be one the most significant JV that has been formed among US airlines.

And the post above was post #1, yet you've got the cojones to deny it.
Nice try, "pastor".
 
 
 
After this opening gem, you went on to say, numerous occasions, that Mexico will simply tear up the treaty / walk away.  For example in these posts:

so, yeah, AM and the Mexican gov't can play this game too.

and it won't turn out well for AA or UA either.
 
and Mexico DOES have the right to say they will rewrite things to their liking until they get what they want - or they return to the "good ole days" where the aviation market is controlled by a few carriers.

Let's be very clear that the Mexican gov't did this deal very much with a knowledge of what AM wanted and needed and who AM's competitors are.

None of that will happen - and Mexico will put ALL growth on hold - if the US refuses to work with an agreement which the Mexican gov't fully signed with the expectation of growing

And Mexico isn't going to accept giving access to its markets without gaining ATI and JV.

So are you going to claim that you did not write the statements above, spinning how Mexico will tear up the treaty and AM/DL still come up a winner?
I realize you spin, lie, manipulate so much that it is probably easy for you to forget what you write.

 
 
Finally, as I have pointed out, you ended the day with a statement claiming a win for DL as demonstrated here:
 

the ATI/JV application is a JOINT application of DL and AM.

anyone that fails to understand that and paint the picture as a DL only issue will clearly be left looking like the fools that they are.

The Mexican gov't had every expectation that they were signing an agreement that would lead to ATI/JV; that didn't happen. Mexico has every reason to react as strongly as they want. that is why they call them agreements.

 

 
PS.  Thanks for maintaining an intelligent discussion and avoiding personal attacks.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

In addition to all that has been written on these pages, there remains the elephant in the room that, surprisingly, has not been addressed yet:  DL remains the distant #3 carrier to Mexico.
 
As a certain poster has preached on here repeatedly, there is the undeniable theory that a #3 carrier in any market is dead meat.
 
So, to carry on the discussion, it would be interesting to hear how DL is going to get out of this strategically challenging corner. 
Can they survive solely being the niche carrier from MEX to ALT+SLC?  Are these niche markets enough for DL? 
How much does this calamity, combined with DLs other challenges (e.g. DAL, ME3, SEA-HND, #3 in LatAm, #3 @ LAX, trouble with partner AF/KL, massive exposure to devaluing Euro, etc.)  contribute to the possibility of DL going tango uniform in the near future?

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, it isn't unsaid. and AM is also far smaller than AA and UA.

that was the whole point of the negotiations and why the Mexican gov't fully expected they were going to gain something that would benefit their carriers.

When the size of the #1 and #2 carriers in the US-Mexico market is half of the market and both AA and UA are nearly twice the size of either DL or AM, then the market is highly concentrated and imbalanced.

you can run around trying to call me a liar but the simple fact is that the Mexican gov't had the expectations of a rebalanced agreement and they simply are not going to agree to an expansion that just adds more US growth opportunities with little to nothing that helps AM - who has chosen DL to help them.

when you have evidence that the Mexicans have rolled over and let other US carriers add even more routes without AM gaining anything, you can come here and crow.

for now, you and your AA peers that want o gloat about what AA will do and has in the market will find that your growth aspirations might well be put on ice.


your last sentence is just plain stupidity and an attempt at deflecting from the very real strategic problems that AA faces and the fact that it is stirring up all kinds of issues that it can't win - like Latin America, LAX to Asia, HND, LHR.

put your childish revenge techniques to the side and focus on the issue that the Mexican have no reason to give any more access to US carriers until they can fix their carriers' position in the market.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

OK, so when facts are pointed out that shatter your DL rules the world fairy tale you must resort to labeling them as childish revenge techniques or call them stupid.
I guess if it wasn't for double standards ... ... ...

 

[WorldTraveler]

except they aren't facts at all... they are your distortions of what was said in an attempt to try to win an argument that you are only engaging in to try to bloody someone else.

grow up.

The Mexicans wanted a deal that would rebalance the heavy US carrier control of the market which would only grow with WN and B6's growth, the DOT negotiated in bad faith, Mexico had expectations of being able to gain ATI/JV for AM, and the DOT threw ice on that.

Mexico is simply not going to roll over and be taken advantage of.

when you can accept that reality and engage in the conversation without your childish attempts at revenue, come back.

 

[700UW]

And you post facts?
 
Were you part of the Mexican Government Negotiators?
 
You make crap up all the time and then back peddle when you are called out to be nothing but a fabricator.
 
Your not an International lawyer, you been gone from DL over eight years, you have no idea whatUS and Mexican government's intent on the negotiations and agreement.

 

[WorldTraveler]

the letter from the Mexican government was posted.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

for now, you and your AA peers that want o gloat about what AA will do and has in the market will find that your growth aspirations might well be put on ice.

your last sentence is just plain stupidity and an attempt at deflecting from the very real strategic problems that AA faces and the fact that it is stirring up all kinds of issues that it can't win - like Latin America, LAX to Asia, HND, LHR.
 

 
 
http://www.zacks.com/stock/news/170480/can-delta-air-lines-dal-q1-earnings-surprise-estimates
"...Delta’s disappointing traffic numbers for the month of March raises concern. Passenger unit revenue (PRASM) on a consolidated basis was flat year over year during the month due to adverse foreign currency movements. In fact, currency headwinds are likely to hurt the international performance of the carrier through the entire first quarter of 2015."
 
Spin away!

 

[WorldTraveler]

when you cut and paste from a single article, there is no reason to believe that you are interested in the truth.

The simple fact is that DL outperformed AA on RASM growth and grew revenue.

DL has to deal with fuel hedge losses while AA still has $650M in currency impairments.

UA has yet to report its RASM performance.

those are facts.

I have never tried to say otherwise.

This thread is about the US-Mexico and AM and DL's request for a JV which is on hold until either the Mexicans and American DOT agree to revise the bilateral or the DOT changes its mind (I'm not holding my breath).

thanks for staying on track with this thread.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

The point was you belittled my comments a page or so back where I stated DL's competitive challenges (currency devaluation among them).  Today's post was to demonstrate that others have a similar opinion.  I guess you are unable to grasp any analysis or news that does not portray DL as anything but the best and hence unable to have a strategic business discussion.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I have acknowledged that currency pressures will affect all airlines - if you look at the general American businesses as a whole, it is the number one comment they are making.

The difference is that Latin currencies have declined worse that the yen or Euro and AA does not hedge currencies.

So while you have made a big production about DL's fuel hedge losses, I have consistently pointed out that AA's currency losses and the resulting impact on AA's revenue will be as bad as what DL had with currency hedges.

The only difference is that DL held a fuel hedge portfolio that had a fairly large negative value as of one date (since fuel costs dramatically in the space of one quarter) while currency losses and revenue declines stretch out for many quarters.

 

[700UW]

And DL is cutting flights to Mexican beach destinations, CZM, GUA, SJD, PVR, and some non-Mexico, CCS.
 
LAX reductions: MTY, MZT, ZIH, ZLO  some non-mexican cuts SAL.
 
And DL is also reducing SLC to Mexico flights, and JFK to Central America flights and Caribbean flights also.
 
And DTW is also reducing Caribbean flights also and CUN.

 

[metopower]

Panic time at DL!!! Oh wait seasonal yearly change maybe?

 

[WorldTraveler]

and the fact that 693 gets his schedule information from a person who reports current year month to month changes instead of year to year.

Don't suppose it would make sense to compare Nov 2015 to Nov 2014?

maybe it's because DL has figured out that beach destinations aren't a great draw in September and October that has allowed DL to generate operating margins that are consistently exceeding 15% per quarter.

 

[700UW]

and the fact that 693 gets his schedule information from a person who reports current year month to month changes instead of year to year.

Don't suppose it would make sense to compare Nov 2015 to Nov 2014?

maybe it's because DL has figured out that beach destinations aren't a great draw in September and October that has allowed DL to generate operating margins that are consistently exceeding 15% per quarter.

Ok, keep calling me a different name, then stop reporting me for calling you:

WORLD FRAUDSTER.