DL asks for $5.9 Million for renovations.

[Kev3188]

so help me understand what is the line you would like to arbitrarily define that DL should follow but which didn't apply to NW? NW took about $10M to build the facility in the first place while DL is seeking $6M but NW couldn't have afforded it but DL can?

$10M was chump change for NW or any other network airline.

If you had posted even once somewhere against NW's use of state loans to build facilities or taking any government aid, then you'd have some credibility.

Anywhere, Kev?

Not nowhere?

 
Just so I'm clear, you want to compare a bailout granted to avoid potential bankruptcy with a forgivable loan to a company that is raking in record profits? Really?
 
Once again, IMO, it's an ethics issue. Just because a company *can* ask for money, doesn't mean it should. That's all the more true for one with as strong of balance sheet as my employer.
 
And really, the whole "credibilty" thing of late is a bit much, and really just smacks of insecurity and projection. Try and keep your emotions out of it; the board experience'll be better all around. Kthx.
 

As usual, I think you're way over-reacting, are way too sensitive to hear any criticism of beloved DL, whether it is justified or not.  You're so blinded, infatuated, and obsessed with all thing DL that you've lost all ability to think clearly.

 
 
It's a recurrent theme...

 

[WorldTraveler]

If you think it is ethically wrong, then you go appeal to the legislators of your state. MN doesn't agree.

NW asked for these loans and built these buildings as new facilities. This had nothing to do with bankruptcy. The Iron Range res center replaced which facility up there before it?

These facilities were all about NW's passing the hat to state taxpayers for normal operational functions that they should have paid for with their own money.

Again, what level of profitability should NW have achieved in order to no longer be eligible for those loans?

How much of your paycheck did you give up so that NW would not have to borrow this money?

It is a jobs creation program which NW used and DL is applying to use as well.

The hypocrisy is calling it wrong because DL is using it while ignoring the fact that NW took out the original loan, one of several in MN, and eliminated many of the jobs despite receiving the benefits of the loans - which included forgiveness.

DL repaid the loans it assumed as NW's corporate successors.

I don't expect you to get it since you are part of the same bunch of pro-labor, anti-DL crowd. I do relish the opportunity to point out how jaded your opinion is of DL which further goes to show while DL people have no interest in supporting the labor movement.

Keep digging..... you just help reinforce that DL will never have to worry about any further unions on their property.

 

[Kev3188]

It has the potential to create jobs. That's the company's term, not mine.
 
We'll see how many actually come to pass.

 

[WorldTraveler]

job retention and creation is what the terms of the loan REQUIRE.

Tell me again how much state money NW received to build NW before it chose to close that facility.

 

[Kev3188]

job retention and creation is what the terms of the loan REQUIRE.

 

 
 
Great; I'm all for more jobs. Remind us again how many jobs are guaranteed (or "required") to be created as part of this loan.
 
While you're at it, help us understand why DL needs a loan to "create jobs" on the Iron Range. After all, they're committed to the facility/area, right?

 

[WorldTraveler]

read the article if you want the answers.

 

[Kev3188]

I already did. The questions stand.
 
If you're not comfortable with answering them, no problem. Maybe someone else will weigh in...

 

[737823]

Kev is Chisolm one of the IAM/union strong holds or have the peeps there seen the light of day being unorganized? How are the cards coming at ATL, TPA, SLC , etc? Has SLC historically been less interested than other cities?

Also apparently DL is doing more home based agents in the MSP area (and elsewhere). Maybe having them work from home makes it more difficult for organizers to send propaganda and intimidate workers. Too bad because one of the Medallion agents I request by name now works from home and she only general calls, not SMS.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

I already did. The questions stand.

try this



In exchange for the forgivable loan, Delta will sign a 12-year agreement and up their employment to more than 500 in the area. Since the call center has been good for business so far, Austin says the move to modernize makes sense.

 

[700UW]

I guess you don't remember DL didn't keep NW's obligations to the state of MN, in the past.

 

[Kev3188]

Kev is Chisolm one of the IAM/union strong holds or have the peeps there seen the light of day being unorganized? How are the cards coming at ATL, TPA, SLC , etc? Has SLC historically been less interested than other cities?

Also apparently DL is doing more home based agents in the MSP area (and elsewhere). Maybe having them work from home makes it more difficult for organizers to send propaganda and intimidate workers. Too bad because one of the Medallion agents I request by name now works from home and she only general calls, not SMS.

Josh

 
There is no campaign for RES agents currently. Are you asking about the ramp counts in those cities?
 
They doing more home based and have introduced (or will shortly) Ready Reserve to that workgroup. 
 
When you say SMS, what do you mean? 

try this



In exchange for the forgivable loan, Delta will sign a 12-year agreement and up their employment to more than 500 in the area. Since the call center has been good for business so far, Austin says the move to modernize makes sense.

 
Like I said; I already read it. I also read the article on DNN that uses the word "potential," w/r/t to jobs. 
 
So again, what are the ironclad job guarantees associated with this proposal?
 
Given the company's pleasure with  the IRC's performance why would they need state aid to do something they very well could execute on their own?

 

[737823]

Skymiles Medallion Service Center. Not sure if that term is still used internally, but once was years ago when I started flying PM-DL. But will having more home based agents and the agent ranks more fragmented/disengaged from coworkers and company add to the climb in a potential drive?

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

SMS actually used to mean Special Members Services.

 

I guess you don't remember DL didn't keep NW's obligations to the state of MN, in the past.

absolutely wrong... but you would never admit it.

DL REPAID the loans in full in exchange for being released from the obligations to maintain a certain level of employment.
They repaid the loan because it was one of the highest interest rate loans which DL inherited from NW.

now tell me again, one of you two, how much did NW receive in MN funding to build facilities including DLH which they subsequently closed?

DL has not taken one dime of MN money for which it has not held up its obligations.

 

Like I said; I already read it. I also read the article on DNN that uses the word "potential," w/r/t to jobs. 
 
So again, what are the ironclad job guarantees associated with this proposal?
 
Given the company's pleasure with  the IRC's performance why would they need state aid to do something they very well could execute on their own?

because other states are willing to provide similar funding to attract those jobs elsewhere. MN can either do the financial calculations which show that the investment was worth it to create and maintain jobs or lose it to some other state. IF MN is willing to give forgivable loans for POSSIBLE job creation, then perhaps the MN people should be the ones who are upset. Were there marches at St. Paul today?

I believe another rust belt state (WI) was the topic of loan guarantees to a certain large automaker in the presidential campaign. perhaps you can refresh us on those details.....

and dozens of others... like the new Airbus plant that is being built in Mobile with - hold your breath - taxpayer incentives.

And the really galling part (I'm sure in your mind) is that Delta Air Lines will actually be buying aircraft built at that plant.

But it's not just the Europeans that know how to find the money. Georgia's other neighbor has shelled out money for a Boeing assembly plant too, IIRC.

Maybe AA will be doubled damned by buying planes built at BOTH plants.

It's the way the world works....


BTW, have you polled MN citizens (presumably not you) on their thoughts on subsidizing a ONE BILLION DOLLAR stadium for the Vikings?
You do realize that the Vikings don't even pay their $4M/year rent on the stadium anymore, don't you?

 

[Kev3188]

Skymiles Medallion Service Center. Not sure if that term is still used internally, but once was years ago when I started flying PM-DL. But will having more home based agents and the agent ranks more fragmented/disengaged from coworkers and company add to the climb in a potential drive?

Thanks. Too bad you can't still connect with the agent you were working with.

In my experience, DL employees are already pretty atomized- certainly compared to how NW was.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you do realize that many call centers have gone to work at home formats - or made them available? Some airlines like B6, IIRC, do not even have brick and mortar res offices.

I don't believe DL even offered work at home before the merger but I can't remember the exact time frame.

A ramp agent can't exactly work at home so the res job just happens to be one that provides the flexibility to make money without being around other people. I'm sure those who participate have figured out how to meet their social needs in other ways.

BTW, can you share the results of that survey of MN taxpayers regarding that billion dollar Vikings stadium that you did?