DL to suspend SEA-HND Flights

[Kev3188]

DL is operating TLV based on the level of demand that is there.

Is that what it is, or given the bridging from NRT, are they operating it with the most (realistic) capacity they have available to them?

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

The reason DL was awarded LAX over AA is when they applied in May 2010 they filed to use the higher capacity 744s over AAs low density 772s, and of course DL quickly adjusted capacity to 772 then 332 and now 763s.

When another carrier does this it is called failure.
when DL does this, it is called winning!

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

it's available on the DOT's website.

FWAAA has demonstrated he can figure it out.

Yes, FWAA actually backs up his statements with data and numbers and therefore has credibility.
 
You on the other hand first make grandoise statements or outright fabricate things and provide selective numbers only when challenged. Even then, your math errors (such as "rounding up") has to be corrected.
 
Your quote in post#85 is a perfect example: "... ... ... n fact I could go thru AA's entire Pacific route system and calculate it but I would strongly bet that each of DL's two HND routes carry more revenue that the majority of AA's Pacific routes"
Ofcourse, in typical fashion you left yourself some wiggle room incse you're not correct by the way you wrote the sentence.

 

[737823]

When another carrier does this it is called failure.when DL does this, it is called winning!

As I've said before I value WTs contributions to this forum but I think he is so deeply emotionally attached to DL that he can't objectively look at this. JFK-TLV is among the fastest growing transatlantic routes, DL is walking away from a key segment of the market.

Josh

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

As I've said before I value WTs contributions to this forum but I think he is so deeply emotionally attached to DL that he can't objectively look at this.

^^^
That's the whole truth!

 

[Kev3188]

JFK-TLV is among the fastest growing transatlantic routes, DL is walking away from a key segment of the market.

Josh

Take a screenshot, Josh; this is one of the few times I'm going to agree with you...

 

[BABABOOY]

I find it hard to believe they downgraded JFK-TLV due to demand.  Delta does extremely well with passengers AND freight on this route.
The only thing that will make sense in downsizing this route is if they announce a second flight.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you can fill any route if you price it low enough.

perhaps the more accurate statement is that DL is providing the level of capacity in order to PROFITABLY serve the market.

I'll have to double check, but I believe DL was the only US carrier that made money flying the Atlantic (which includes the Middle East and África - in the winter of 2014.

As I've said before I value WTs contributions to this forum but I think he is so deeply emotionally attached to DL that he can't objectively look at this. JFK-TLV is among the fastest growing transatlantic routes, DL is walking away from a key segment of the market.

Josh

what would you expect from a traveler to Israel looking for excess capacity in the market in order to drive down prices and give him a cheap seat?

just like the whole meal issue on AA, you are not a disinterested party.

AA, with respect to meals, and DL with respect to service, will offer products and services that can generate the most amount of revenue.

 

[FWAAA]

And DL tried both DTW and SEA and they didn't work, LAX doesn't exactly look like a stellar performer. The reason DL was awarded LAX over AA is when they applied in May 2010 they filed to use the higher capacity 744s over AAs low density 772s, and of course DL quickly adjusted capacity to 772 then 332 and now 763s.

Josh

EXACTLY!    Another example of DL over-promising and under-delivering.   Airlines stretch the facts and lie when they want to maintain their "dominant" position.
 
Yes, WT, I realize that a 747 is more capacity than LAX-TYO demands and more capacity than can be flown profitably (anybody with a brain and a heartbeat knows that now and knew it then), but Delta simply lied to the DOT to win the route case.   Not the first time and probably not the last time.   Ma Delta lies as well as any other airline to win route cases.   Would DL have won LAX-HND had DL been realistic with the proposed equipment?   We'll never know for sure, but I doubt it.  

 

[WorldTraveler]

take it up with the DOT. There are no requirements that any carrier use any type of equipment in any route case.

There is no basis for DL to be stripped of the SEA-HND route award.

BTW, someone pointed out that AA's proposed application for LAX-HND uses the same flight number as LAX-NRT uses today.

So, jumping into HND is really just their attempt at getting out of their money-losing LAX-NRT route which I have highlighted for years, right?

problem is that they have no more likelihood of making money flying LAX-HND in which they will compete with DL than they do of flying LAX-NRT where they have underperformed DL since DL inherited the route from NW>

 

[topDawg]

I find it hard to believe they downgraded JFK-TLV due to demand.  Delta does extremely well with passengers AND freight on this route.
The only thing that will make sense in downsizing this route is if they announce a second flight.

Its the Delta way. Just be happy they haven't outsourced it. 
 
 
 
 
 
yet. 
 

EXACTLY!    Another example of DL over-promising and under-delivering.   Airlines stretch the facts and lie when they want to maintain their "dominant" position.
 
Yes, WT, I realize that a 747 is more capacity than LAX-TYO demands and more capacity than can be flown profitably (anybody with a brain and a heartbeat knows that now and knew it then), but Delta simply lied to the DOT to win the route case.   Not the first time and probably not the last time.   Ma Delta lies as well as any other airline to win route cases.   Would DL have won LAX-HND had DL been realistic with the proposed equipment?   We'll never know for sure, but I doubt it.  

If any of that was the case then the DOT would have simply pulled the slot once Delta downgraded. Delta got its slots because AA had three HND slots and United had two HND slots. You guys don't get to just forget about the JVs whenever its beneficial to you. 
 

I worked the diversions that couldn't stay aloft even 9 1/2 hours. Calculate a flight plan for a 5300 mile and tell me how many hours it needs to stay along. Unless you worked in Flight Control, as a pilot, or in Operations (above or below wing) you have no idea how the plane actually did in real service.

Find me a flight that stayed aloft on A310-300 for more than 10 hours with standard passengers (which would mean a 10.30 hour or more flight) let alone the 12.5 hour flights that are common on DL 767-300ERs.

The A310 is simply no comparison to the 763ER.

The simple fact is that DL, not me, dumped the A310s. The economics didn't work and neither did the performance.

The fact that Airbus did as good of a job on the 330 and DL has bought it says volumes about the improvements Airbus made.

So again, Airbus lies. 
 
and I like how you glossed over me telling you DL did fly DTW-LGW with the A310 when you said they didn't. 
 

And DL tried both DTW and SEA and they didn't work, LAX doesn't exactly look like a stellar performer. The reason DL was awarded LAX over AA is when they applied in May 2010 they filed to use the higher capacity 744s over AAs low density 772s, and of course DL quickly adjusted capacity to 772 then 332 and now 763s.

Josh

Thats false. 
 
DL was given the two HND slots for a few reasons, 
1) the DOT did the right thing and looked at AA and JL (along with UA and ANA) as one. Giving AA two US-HND slots on top of what JL got(2) would be giving JL/AA four daily flights to HND from the US. That is not how you increase competition
2) AA's second choice was LAX-HND. The DOT gave them the first slot they asked for, JFK-HND.
 
The DOT does not assign slots based on capacity. It looks pretty but if they based things on capacity then they would have pulled the slot as soon as it went to a 767. 

 

[topDawg]

Oh and on the AA asking for the slot thing, I think you'll find that the DOT will tell them to go away or Delta will just fly the flight over the winter. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

dawg,
apparently we aren't communicating on the same wave length. I KNOW DL flew LGW-DTW. I was a passenger on it.

and, I said before AA did anything that DL would fly the route just enough to mean the route doesn't go dormant.

AA can kick and squeal all it wants but until the 91st day comes and goes with no DL SEA-HND flight. there is no basis for any action on anyone's part.

 

[topDawg]

dawg,
apparently we aren't communicating on the same wave length. I KNOW DL flew LGW-DTW. I was a passenger on it.

and, I said before AA did anything that DL would fly the route just enough to mean the route doesn't go dormant.

AA can kick and squeal all it wants but until the 91st day comes and goes with no DL SEA-HND flight. there is no basis for any action on anyone's part.

but you said it wasn't done on the 310. It was. The L12 did fly it for a short amount of time. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

you can find the quote if it makes you feel better but I doubt if I said that DL didn't use the 310 on LGW-DTW. Since I flew on that route with a 310, my experience would tend to negate your assertion.