FLIGHT ATTENDANTS NOT ALLOWED TO STRIKE

[ThirdSeatHero]

Why not?

One should always be planning for one's next job. No job is truly secure. Smart career planning involves regularly asking yourself, "If I get the pink slip / my company goes bust tomorrow / if they ask me to take a huge paycut (which, by the way, happens in a lot of industries, not just airlines), what would I do?" If those "what if" options look grim, you have time today to start doing something about it by updating or learning new skills to get ready for tomorrow. You can at least start establishing connections with other employers who would compensate you better for your existing skill set, if you think your employer is so horrible compared to other comparable ones out there.

Oh sure!

Asking those question of course is always prudent but to any way imply that airline employees of any station should have been on guard to see 9-11/oil rise coming is ridiculous.

Any number of people could've gone through your checklist on 9-10 and felt comfortable, then what? 9-11. And suddenly they're guilty of a lack of foresight/planning?

I guess we just disagree then.

prudent caution is one thing, preparadness bordering on paranoia is another.

JMHO

 

[bagstacker]

That's nice (though not surprising, considering the source).

But nice dodge of my question. I'll try again:

If you are saying people should be able to have children without any thought as to the consequences of their actions and without taking any responsibility for being able to raise them properly (financially), then how should these families be given "comfortable" lifestyles, and who should pay for it?

I think that is a legitimate question. Any thoughtful response?

Well, nobody, of course! There is no higher moral or ethical imperative than market forces! People don't have any inherent worth, their only value is as just another disposable "resource". Remember, we're all in this alone, and greed is good. It's what made America great. All that crap about sacrifice, honor, greater good, etc., is just a lot of useless chatter.

So get yours, no matter what it takes. It works for global corporations, let it work for you! If an obligation is too expensive, or even just too inconvenient, hell, just ditch it. As the "deep thinkers" here have pointed out, honest, hard work is for suckers.

Be a Player! All of you go right out and become doctors and lawyers, and we'll all be rich and happy. It's simple, or maybe just simple-minded.

 

[aafsc]

Perhaps you haven't noticed the "for example" in my post. Besides, the aerospace industry has been quite healthy globally. Outside the U.S., there has been explosive growth in the current and projected demand for airplanes and associated technology.

In any case, I said "designing" but you went into "maintenance." Big diff. Because of many factors, the strength of the U.S. economy historically has been to originate and create new technologies and get them off the ground. Once they mature enough, other countries' economies may do better at keeping them going and manufacturing copies. My main point was make sure you are positioned to be at the creative end of the process if you want to succeed in the U.S. economy.

But I am not sure I understand your overall point. If you are saying there is NOTHING the U.S. can do more cheaply and/or better than China and India, then yes (if this is what you are getting at), wages in the U.S. will fall and those in China and India will rise until a balance is reached.

Protesting on an IBB won't change that. Neither will artificially propping up U.S. workers' wages if China and India truly are better than the U.S. at everything (which I do not believe, but maybe you do).
"Software oriented job," huh? Care to be more specific?

If he was working at a call center, then yes, there is a small chance that maybe he lost his job to someone in India.

But even in that case, "chances are" means you don't really know, right? So you're just basically making stuff up.

I'll tell you exactly what he was. He was a microsoft certified system engineer if I recall the correct job title. He was basically tech support. After he passed the microsoft test, he told us he got a job paying about $40,000 a year to start (remember this was about 10 years ago). On one rainy day at AA, he got pi$$ed off and walked out the door during his shift and never returned. This happened before all the massive outsourcing of computer jobs to India. And yes, I don't know for sure what his fate was because he was never seen or heard from again after his hasty exit from AA, but with everything going out of the country "chances are" he lost his job.

As far as wages rising in China and India, I highly doubt that will happen because 1. They are the two most populous countries on Earth (infinate supply of cheap labor) and 2. They have virtual slave labor in China where they work young women (teenagers- 25 years of age) 16 hours a day 6 days a week, they live in a company "dorm" with 10 -15 other women and receive little pay with no benefits. (Kind of like it was here in the US in the 1800s).

Let me end my post by asking you a question? How many aerospace "designers" do you thing that Boeing, Lockheed- Martin, and Northrop-Gruman can realistically hire? There are about 300 million people in this country; it is not realistic that they can all be aerospace designers, doctors, and lawyers.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I think my "master" would prefer the FA's accept the industry competetive wage and work rules that they are currently working under.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Why is it, that you non-union LEMMINGS, believe EVERYTHING that your "MASTER" tells you ??

When "Dougie Stealin' says "My way, is the ONLY way", BINGO, you "YES men" are Marching in step !

I agree, that when "spineless unions" buckle under, It looks VERY bad, ...BUT... THAT does NOT mean,,,,"Dougie is right" !!

But then again, since he's surrounded by so MANY "yes men", agreeing with him, I suppose that encourages him to think he's doing the right thing.


NH/BB's

Ps,

Just curious.

Are you familiar with
1. Jim Jones/Guyana ??
2. (the) Pied Piper ??

3. What's your farovite flavor of KOOL AID ??

4. Do you have breakable MIRROR's in your home ??

 

[Bob Owens]

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Why is it, that you non-union LEMMINGS, believe EVERYTHING that your "MASTER" tells you ??

When "Dougie Stealin' says "My way, is the ONLY way", BINGO, you "YES men" are Marching in step !

I agree, that when "spineless unions" buckle under, It looks VERY bad, ...BUT... THAT does NOT mean,,,,"Dougie is right" !!

But then again, since he's surrounded by so MANY "yes men", agreeing with him, I suppose that encourages him to think he's doing the right thing.
NH/BB's

Ps,

Just curious.

Are you familiar with
1. Jim Jones/Guyana ??
2. (the) Pied Piper ??

3. What's your farovite flavor of KOOL AID ??

4. Do you have breakable MIRROR's in your home ??

Thats why they were so desperate to get rid of AMFA. It didnt matter to them how much it cost, AMFA said "NO", so they had to go. Dougie and company's big egos couldnt stand for that, they are so used to bootlicker unions and cant tolerate those that dont so even if it costs more to bust the union, and ruins the company, the institutions that own the airlines demand that they do so. In the end they make out by having lower wages throughout the industry.

I hear people say "Look at what happened to the guys at NWA" , yea well what happened? They moved on to new careers where they have a future, if thats the worst that can happen then we really have nothing to fear.

 

[Bear96]

Well I guess the Judge thinks he is doing the Godly thing by forcing these sluts to work at slave rates as pennace for their sins. :blink: :blink:

I don't know what the judge's theologicoal beliefs are. You'd have to take that up with him.

Now if you think he got the law wrong, feel free to point out where he did so, and cite to a (legal) source that supports your position. (And BTW I do not yet have an opinion on whether or not he got the law wrong in this case as I have not had time to read the opinion. From what I have read of it, I agree with him that the BK judge had the "jurisdiction" to decide the issue. But I will probably have problems with the decision if it does indeed say that the F/As now just have to live with the imposed contract and have no right to take collective action in response.)

Keep their legs closed? Maybe that mother of two was a wife at the time but unfortunately due to things beyond her control and after the fact finds that she is now the sole provider for the family? The fact is that regardless of the circumstances people who work should be paid a livable wage.

Sounds great (whatever it is you mean by "livable wage," but we'll overlook that for now)! Power to the people! Workers of the world unite! What side are you on! (I think I have a tear in my eye.)

Feel free to start your own hamburger joint and pay your staff $60k/yr (if that is "livable" by your definition). Oh, and gold-plated medical care for them and their extended families. And of course a generous defined benefit pension.

Let us know how it turns out for you.

 

[Bear96]

Oh sure!

Asking those question of course is always prudent but to any way imply that airline employees of any station should have been on guard to see 9-11/oil rise coming is ridiculous.

Any number of people could've gone through your checklist on 9-10 and felt comfortable, then what? 9-11. And suddenly they're guilty of a lack of foresight/planning?

Were 9/11 or rising oil prices on my "checklist"? No. Of course you often can't tell the specifics of what will happen. That is precisely the point -- life is full of surprises. One should always have a nice exit strategy and Plan B ready to slide into.

In any case, speaking of 9/11 and airline employees specifically, the interesting question to ask is how did people in the airline industry react after 9/11? That was FIVE YEARS ago now. Why, five years later, are people still stuck in the airline biz hating their compensation, when it was pretty clear five years ago that major unpleasant changes were coming down the pike? The current situation should be no surprise to anyone. There has been PLENTY of time to take action. Again, five years.

Personally, I saw the writing on the wall after 9/11 and began executing my Plan B (which had been developed previously). Did I predict exactly the 9/11 events? Of course not. But I always had a rough idea that "if it looks like my job is no longer secure or is turning into one that I no longer like, here is what I will do in response." 9/11 happened; I spent a couple of months getting my head together in the immediate aftermath; I saw the empty planes, fleet groundings, and layoffs; and I saw that it was clearly time to put Plan B into action. How many more "hints" did people need that front line airline jobs were about to undergo a huge, negative change?

Those that just closed their eyes, did nothing, and hoped for the best against clear indications that things were heading downhill fast, well I'm not sure how much sympathy I have for those who don't like their current situation.

 

[finman]

The government welfare system is flawed. Once people make a certain wage they are completely cut off and they make less than what they had when they were on WIC program, ect.

I don't think it's necessarily the welfare system that's flawed (which with my libertarian ideology is very difficult to actually say), but the fact that people would actually choose to stay on welfare rather than work due to the situation you describe above. There is a little thing called pride and dignity (which the welfare system has eroded) that pushes honerable people to work for a living and only accept handouts when there is no other way to survive. Anybody that would stay on welfare when they are capable of earning a living on their own is basically, in my mind, a collasal waste of oxygen.

 

[Nor'Easta]

I for one do not agree with your statement.

Were F/As in the 1950s/1960s, who also had to leave when they got "prego" or married, "low life"?

Sounds like you're a classic male chauvinist pig!

 

[Hackman]

I don't know what the judge's theologicoal beliefs are. You'd have to take that up with him.

Now if you think he got the law wrong, feel free to point out where he did so, and cite to a (legal) source that supports your position. (And BTW I do not yet have an opinion on whether or not he got the law wrong in this case as I have not had time to read the opinion. From what I have read of it, I agree with him that the BK judge had the "jurisdiction" to decide the issue. But I will probably have problems with the decision if it does indeed say that the F/As now just have to live with the imposed contract and have no right to take collective action in response.)
Sounds great (whatever it is you mean by "livable wage," but we'll overlook that for now)! Power to the people! Workers of the world unite! What side are you on! (I think I have a tear in my eye.)

Feel free to start your own hamburger joint and pay your staff $60k/yr (if that is "livable" by your definition). Oh, and gold-plated medical care for them and their extended families. And of course a generous defined benefit pension.

Let us know how it turns out for you.

We do know were thi$ judge$' prioritie$ lie, don't we? Big busine$$, big money. Not the rule of law, workers rights, or to negotiate in good faith. Dougie Stealin' and friends assured the government/courts that they had a "flawless" $100 million scab plan in place last year, let the forced AMFA strike happen as we want. With big brother in our pocket, we will then attempt to bust the union and hire cheap scab labor. As commanded, the govenment/courts stayed out.

Now, with an apparent crippling F/A strike looming, Stealin' cries to his big brother for help to bully the the F/A's with a bullsh*t ruling;
"US District Judge Victor Marrero issued an injunction Friday that prevents Northwest Airlines flight attendants from striking or engaging in other disruptive work actions, stating that such actions could cripple the bankrupt carrier and unduly damage the US transportation system." Damage the system? If Scab Air went "tango uniform" tomorrow, not many people would notice, and many like myself would be very exstatic to see Stealin' and his POS friends get hung with the Chapter 7 albatross around their necks.

Now then, look at Messaba and the judge who justly ruled that management must "negotiate or liquidate." How can rogue Scab Air management thugs not negotiate in good faith and impose massive concessions on workers and yet Messaba management can't? Double standard??? Is Dougie's judge bankroll just that much thicker? :down:

"U.S. District Judge Michael Davis ruled that U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Gregory Kishel erred in July when he granted the airline the authority to nullify existing labor contracts with its pilots, flight attendants and mechanics.

The unions appealed, and Davis concluded that that Mesaba didn't negotiate in good faith and that it failed a legal test requiring it to be "fair and equitable" in spreading around the pain of its bankruptcy restructuring.

Davis left Mesaba with two immediate options: liquidate or negotiate."

The AFA hopefully will win its appeal, and Scab Air will then suffer the strike that will put it down for a long dirt nap.

 

[FWAAA]

The Judge was wrong to violate the RLA and prevent the Flight attendants from engaging in their lawful right to self help. But what should we expect from a government that no longer even tries to pretend to be "for the people"? Chances are he has very little in common with the mother of two trying to support her family on a meager wage but a lot in common with the rich bastards that want to turn everyone into their slaves. As we have seen in the past Judges who rule favorably towards the corporate world can look forward to being handsomely rewarded for their dirty deeds.

So the Puerto Rican-born Judge Victor Marrero, appointed by President Clinton, got it all wrong, did he?

Don't blame me - I didn't vote for Clinton. Did you?

 

[Bear96]

We do know were thi$ judge$' prioritie$ lie, don't we? Big busine$$, big money.

What are you saying? That the judge is being bribed? Got anything to back up that allegation?

"US District Judge Victor Marrero issued an injunction Friday that prevents Northwest Airlines flight attendants from striking or engaging in other disruptive work actions, stating that such actions could cripple the bankrupt carrier and unduly damage the US transportation system." Damage the system? If Scab Air went "tango uniform" tomorrow, not many people would notice, and many like myself would be very exstatic to see Stealin' and his POS friends get hung with the Chapter 7 albatross around their necks.

I don't disagree with your sentiments there.

Now then, look at Messaba and the judge who justly ruled that management must "negotiate or liquidate."

Ah, I see. When you disagree with a ruling, the judge is corrupt. When you like it, the ruling is "just." What a nice way to see the world!

Because I disagree with someone characterizing F/As as "low lives," I am a male chauvinist pig?

Sorry, but I am having trouble following your logic.

 

[Hackman]

So the Puerto Rican-born Judge Victor Marrero, appointed by President Clinton, got it all wrong, did he?

Don't blame me - I didn't vote for Clinton. Did you?

Can't stand the Bushs, Billary, Gores, .....really any of them.... Dumbocrats or Republibots. They all suck sh*t. :angry:

What is needed is a Workers party to with some conservative values mixed in.

Neither major political party gives a crap about anything except what company or multi-millionare is giving up the biggest wad of cash. :down: :down: :down:

 

[Fly]

Hackman......probably the truest statement on the board this year.

 

[Bear96]

What is needed is a Workers party to with some conservative values mixed in.

That sounds like a winner.

Communist economic policies, and social policies as dictated by Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.

Sign me up!