FLIGHT ATTENDANTS NOT ALLOWED TO STRIKE

[Bear96]

Well Bear, next time you go shopping take a look at where almost everything is made now! CHINA!

Yes, and? I don't see your point. All economies have their strengths. One of China's is manufacturing certain consumer goods more efficiently than the U.S. (Which keeps the price of those goods low for the masses in the U.S. shopping at WalMart (which I DO NOT do), and who seem to be enjoying those low cost goods, by the way.)

I got news for you the only jobs soon to be left in this country are going to be "service sector" jobs. Ross Perot said it best when he said: "America will soon be a nation selling each other hamburgers".

Broadly speaking, it is true that "service sector jobs" will be the predominant type of jobs in the U.S. economy (if they aren't already, which depends on how you define it), yes.

Therefore U.S. workers have a choice. If they don't want to get stuck in the "hamburger serving" or "serving airline passengers" end of the economy, they had better get busy obtaining the skills and education necessary to be at the (for example) "providing legal / medical services" or "desigining software / aerospace technology services" end of the economy.

 

[aafsc]

Yes, and? I don't see your point. All economies have their strengths. One of China's is manufacturing certain consumer goods more efficiently than the U.S. (Which keeps the price of those goods low for the masses in the U.S. shopping at WalMart (which I DO NOT do), and who seem to be enjoying those low cost goods, by the way.)
Broadly speaking, it is true that "service sector jobs" will be the predominant type of jobs in the U.S. economy (if they aren't already, which depends on how you define it), yes.

Therefore U.S. workers have a choice. If they don't want to get stuck in the "hamburger serving" or "serving airline passengers" end of the economy, they had better get busy obtaining the skills and education necessary to be at the (for example) "providing legal / medical services" or "desigining software / aerospace technology services" end of the economy.

Computers and aerospace? In case you haven't noticed, the aerospace field has taken a quite a hit. Just look at all the outsourcing of aircraft maintenance by most of the US airlines to places like China and third party, low wage shops. Regarding computers, much of that has been outsourced to low wage India (or they come here on a H1b visas and work for much less thus depressing the wages). In fact, there was someone on my crew that obtained a software oriented job after getting the required education. He started out very doing very well; so much so that one day he just quit AA; he literally walked out the door half way through his shift and never returned. This was almost 10 years ago. Chances are he lost that software job to someone in India. As far as medical and legal, it is impossible for everyone in this country to be either a doctor or a lawyer. The fact is "globalization" will ensure that someone somewhere in the world will always be willing (or forced) to "do it for less" than someone else.

 

[Bear96]

Computers and aerospace? In case you haven't noticed, . . .

Perhaps you haven't noticed the "for example" in my post. Besides, the aerospace industry has been quite healthy globally. Outside the U.S., there has been explosive growth in the current and projected demand for airplanes and associated technology.

In any case, I said "designing" but you went into "maintenance." Big diff. Because of many factors, the strength of the U.S. economy historically has been to originate and create new technologies and get them off the ground. Once they mature enough, other countries' economies may do better at keeping them going and manufacturing copies. My main point was make sure you are positioned to be at the creative end of the process if you want to succeed in the U.S. economy.

But I am not sure I understand your overall point. If you are saying there is NOTHING the U.S. can do more cheaply and/or better than China and India, then yes (if this is what you are getting at), wages in the U.S. will fall and those in China and India will rise until a balance is reached.

Protesting on an IBB won't change that. Neither will artificially propping up U.S. workers' wages if China and India truly are better than the U.S. at everything (which I do not believe, but maybe you do).

In fact, there was someone on my crew that obtained a software oriented job after getting the required education. He started out very doing very well; so much so that one day he just quit AA; he literally walked out the door half way through his shift and never returned. This was almost 10 years ago. Chances are he lost that software job to someone in India.

"Software oriented job," huh? Care to be more specific?

If he was working at a call center, then yes, there is a small chance that maybe he lost his job to someone in India.

But even in that case, "chances are" means you don't really know, right? So you're just basically making stuff up.

 

[jenny@nw]

Yes, and? I don't see your point. All economies have their strengths. One of China's is manufacturing certain consumer goods more efficiently than the U.S. (Which keeps the price of those goods low for the masses in the U.S. shopping at WalMart (which I DO NOT do), and who seem to be enjoying those low cost goods, by the way.)
Broadly speaking, it is true that "service sector jobs" will be the predominant type of jobs in the U.S. economy (if they aren't already, which depends on how you define it), yes.

Therefore U.S. workers have a choice. If they don't want to get stuck in the "hamburger serving" or "serving airline passengers" end of the economy, they had better get busy obtaining the skills and education necessary to be at the (for example) "providing legal / medical services" or "desigining software / aerospace technology services" end of the economy.

Please enlighten us with your positive viewpoint. Tell me how a mother of 2 working 2 waitress jobs and no family support able to dump both jobs and just go to a trade school and support children. Easier said than done.

Another thing too, there is that argument of keeping your legs closed but the fact is most young people whose parents are working these low paying jobs are not home to provide some guidance.
Although there is sex education taught, sometimes ... when hormones are raging.... they are not likely to think things through. (hey Thirdseat... )

Then we'll have 18 yr olds with kids who are rewarded by the government by making more kids (more kids, more allowance they get per month) and live in dinky section 8 housing. When they make enough money to get off welfare they realize that it will cost them MORE money so they opt to ask their employer to pay them less money and collect more from the government.

I think the system is seriously flawed.

Now wait a minute! Arent we: ff:

 

[Bear96]

Please enlighten us with your positive viewpoint. Tell me how a mother of 2 working 2 waitress jobs and no family support able to dump both jobs and just go to a trade school and support children. Easier said than done.

My answer indeed is keep your legs closed.

But since you don't like that answer, why don't you enlighten me. What do you propose to do about people who have children and can't afford it? Raise the price of hamburgers at the restaurant where the waitress works so that she can make $60K/yr. (plus tips, of course)? If the hamburger at a greasy spoon restaurant used to be $2.99, how many people will be willing to pay $7.99 for the same greasy spoon burger so that the staff can make more money than many teachers?

Or are more generous welfare benefits the answer? Are you willing to pay more taxes, or have a cut in spending in other areas such as transportation and public education spending (and airline secuity) for that?

(For the record, I am in favor of increased public benefits for those who truly fall on hard times. But I have little sympathy for people -- men and women -- who know they will never have a higher paying job than waiter / waitress, or F/A, or whatever entry-level service job you want to point to, yet still choose to have multiple children and then complain about their tough situation.)

 

[Nor'Easta]

You know what they are going to say (I've heard this before) YOU AIRLINES BLAME SEPT 11 for everything. :down:

That will be said a 100 years from now, too. :down:

My answer indeed is keep your legs closed.

I have one word for you...


A$$H*LE!

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

I agree with Bear, don't breed 'em if you can't feed 'em.

 

[Bear96]

[quote name='Nor'Easta' post='416172' date='Sep 17 2006, 10:53 PM']I have one word for you...
A$$H*LE![/quote]
That's nice (though not surprising, considering the source).

But nice dodge of my question. I'll try again:

If you are saying people should be able to have children without any thought as to the consequences of their actions and without taking any responsibility for being able to raise them properly (financially), then how should these families be given "comfortable" lifestyles, and who should pay for it?

I think that is a legitimate question. Any thoughtful response?

 

[groundcontrol]

That's nice (though not surprising, considering the source).

But nice dodge of my question. I'll try again:

If you are saying people should be able to have children without any thought as to the consequences of their actions and without taking any responsibility for being able to raise them properly (financially), then how should these families be given "comfortable" lifestyles, and who should pay for it?

I think that is a legitimate question. Any thoughtful response?

Maybe this will allow the subject to get back on topic.
It seem we all agree that what NW now wants to attract are low life ladies that will work for a while, get prego, leave, and the process starts all over again....well, let me tell you that is costly in itself.

 

[Bear96]

Maybe this will allow the subject to get back on topic.
It seem we all agree that what NW now wants to attract are low life ladies that will work for a while, get prego, leave, and the process starts all over again....

I for one do not agree with your statement.

Were F/As in the 1950s/1960s, who also had to leave when they got "prego" or married, "low life"?

 

[upsilon]

Maybe this will allow the subject to get back on topic.

It seem we all agree that what NW now wants to attract are low life ladies .....

Back on topic.....using the oxymoronic phrase "low life ladies"? That's quite a stretch!

 

[groundcontrol]

Back on topic.....using the oxymoronic phrase "low life ladies"? That's quite a stretch!

low life...not my words....bear96 seems to not hold any woman who does not keep her legs closed (then can't afford the 9 mos. bundle of joy) as a person who has no place in society...hence low life. Attendants not allowed to strike, NW must impose contract to try to get them to leave, so they can hire people of lesser quality.
whatever....I tried

I also try not to discuss politics, religion, or people's way of life....this is why. These are subjects that people need to agree that they disagree or it can go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.... think I'm done now

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

While some may have little sympathy for those who may find themselves in rough straights due to a certain lack of planning. I however think its rather ridiculous to think ANYONE must go through their respective lives thinking..."Gee! I better plan on an industry crippling event,coupled with an unprecedented rise in fuel costs, that will lead some companies to try and extract more than 25% of my wages and benefits."

Even more so when one considers the company in question which time and again has proven itself to be less than honorable.

JMHO

 

[Bear96]

low life...not my words....bear96 seems to not hold any woman who does not keep her legs closed (then can't afford the 9 mos. bundle of joy) as a person who has no place in society...hence low life.

Yes, that's exactly what I said.

Let me try to dumb it down for you even more: Actions have consequences.

Attendants not allowed to strike, . . .

OK, the above was bad enough, but now you are really warping what I am saying. Please show me where I said anything like F/As should not be allowed to strike.


NW must impose contract to try to get them to leave, so they can hire people of lesser quality.
whatever....I tried

While some may have little sympathy for those who may find themselves in rough straights due to a certain lack of planning. I however think its rather ridiculous to think ANYONE must go through their respective lives thinking..."Gee! I better plan on an industry crippling event,coupled with an unprecedented rise in fuel costs, that will lead some companies to try and extract more than 25% of my wages and benefits."

Why not?

One should always be planning for one's next job. No job is truly secure. Smart career planning involves regularly asking yourself, "If I get the pink slip / my company goes bust tomorrow / if they ask me to take a huge paycut (which, by the way, happens in a lot of industries, not just airlines), what would I do?" If those "what if" options look grim, you have time today to start doing something about it by updating or learning new skills to get ready for tomorrow. You can at least start establishing connections with other employers who would compensate you better for your existing skill set, if you think your employer is so horrible compared to other comparable ones out there.

Even more so when one considers the company in question which time and again has proven itself to be less than honorable.

JMHO

I would not do business, either as a consumer or as an employee, with a company I believed had proven itself time and again to be less than honorable.

JMHO.

 

[Bob Owens]

Yes, that's exactly what I said.

Let me try to dumb it down for you even more: Actions have consequences.
OK, the above was bad enough, but now you are really warping what I am saying. Please show me where I said anything like F/As should not be allowed to strike.
NW must impose contract to try to get them to leave, so they can hire people of lesser quality.
whatever....I tried

Well I guess the Judge thinks he is doing the Godly thing by forcing these sluts to work at slave rates as pennace for their sins. :blink: :blink:


Keep their legs closed? Maybe that mother of two was a wife at the time but unfortunately due to things beyond her control and after the fact finds that she is now the sole provider for the family? The fact is that regardless of the circumstances people who work should be paid a livable wage. With all the wealth in this country, wealth that is the product of the work of everyone who works, that should not be unreasonable, but unfortunately those at the top just cant seem to get enough.

The Judge was wrong to violate the RLA and prevent the Flight attendants from engaging in their lawful right to self help. But what should we expect from a government that no longer even tries to pretend to be "for the people"? Chances are he has very little in common with the mother of two trying to support her family on a meager wage but a lot in common with the rich bastards that want to turn everyone into their slaves. As we have seen in the past Judges who rule favorably towards the corporate world can look forward to being handsomely rewarded for their dirty deeds.

The fact that over at Mesaba the Judge ruled lawfully, complying with the BK code and the RLA, instead of making up his own laws like at NWA, just shows the corruption of the legal system. Apologist will claim that the system allows for appeals, but the fact is that the injustice can not be remidied by money alone. Negotiate or liquidate. Clear, simple and as the authors intended. Where does this Judge get off ruling that NWA has a legal right to the labor of its flight attendants? Where does he get off determining the future of these workers and allowing conditions to be determined unilaterally by the company?Where does the BK code spell out such rights? Protection from debt is one thing, the confiscation of future property is another. Like I've said before, if they have such a right then it would also carry to other forms of property as well, according to this wacko's "interpretation", the Airlines should be able to name their price for fuel as well. The Judge at NWA should be removed from the Bench.If we had a labor movement they would demand it, unfortunately the people running what we are led to believe is the labor movement are more like the Judge and the executives, the only real difference seems to be that most have no real education to justify their six figure salaries, generous perks and the fact that they too are insulated from the "market forces" that are destroying the lives of millions of Americans.

"Actions have consequences." So if a woman gets pregnant, heeds the urging of the Conservatives and has the baby instead of aborting it she should be consigned to suffer for the rest of her life but the MBA and the associated other busines elites who mismanage the assetts of others should be rewarded with the opportunity to unilaterally impose terms on its employees with goverment imposed restrictions that force the acceptance of those terms?