HERE COMES THE LAYOFFS

[tech2101]

But someone somewhere has to know what it costs AA to overhaul a 777 and what an MRO will charge. Yes they have lower costs but after adding a profit margin to their lower costs I would think we would be close enough to offset the loss of quality, scheduling and future cost increases that outsourcing would bring.

They have done the math.

Like a snake, they will shed now, getting rid of the dead skin, and grow new.

That is what Chapter 11 is all about.

Sad, but true.

 

[john john]

Bad decision on their part.

So much for "The Fighting Machinists". Unions came into being by violating injunctions, if we do not learn from History we repeat the mistakes. Rolling over as you seem to promote just invites more abuse.

There is no means test for filing C-11.

At US Airways the passenger service agents voted overwhelmingly to authorize a strike or other lawful job action because management petitioned the bankruptcy judge to throw out (abrogation) their union contract and imposes concessions through the bankruptcy process without a vote of the employees. The threat of a strike made all parties involved nervous CWA was able to push back against some of the harsher and more excessive proposals made by US Airways management.

http://web.archive.org/web/20041202012752/http://www.cwa.net/

http://web.archive.org/web/20041031025329/http://www.cwa.net/

 

[700UW]

And you still took massive concessions and outsourced reservation and lost baggage functions.

The company wasnt threatened, and they filed motions to abrogate all the CBAs if no agreements were reached.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Cost per ASM for maintenance does include all maintenance related costs whether performed by airline employees or outside contractors. At its worst, AA had costs 66% higher than its lowest cost network competitor. AA has reduced that gap while other carrier's maintenance costs have gone up so that the difference is most recently at less than 20%.
If AA is able to do significant amounts of work using lower paid inhouse employees, then there is a good chance that they can offset many of the supposed advantages of outsourcing.

 

[AA89]

They have done the math.

Like a snake, they will shed now, getting rid of the dead skin, and grow new.

That is what Chapter 11 is all about.

Sad, but true.

Hahahaha.......The (Strike) snake analogy is very ironic.
I am sure the new skin will be growing nicely in approximately 5 years. Just about the time those pesky mechanics drop off the recall list and the company is free to fill those positions with someone from the street.
When you hire BK professionals they use every trick in the bag.

 

[AA89]

Cost per ASM for maintenance does include all maintenance related costs whether performed by airline employees or outside contractors. At its worst, AA had costs 66% higher than its lowest cost network competitor. AA has reduced that gap while other carrier's maintenance costs have gone up so that the difference is most recently at less than 20%.
If AA is able to do significant amounts of work using lower paid inhouse employees, then there is a good chance that they can offset many of the supposed advantages of outsourcing.

I'm sure you don't have the exact MX/ASM numbers or you would have included them but I sure hope someone in New York comes up with them soon and presents them to the judge. If we are that close to the other airlines then these term sheets from the company look even more disgusting than they did when they came out.

Sadly, if AA is sucessful in lowering the bar, the other airlines will be forced to match it. And the ratcheting down continues.............

 

[amt66]

I'm sure you don't have the exact MX/ASM numbers or you would have included them but I sure hope someone in New York comes up with them soon and presents them to the judge. If we are that close to the other airlines then these term sheets from the company look even more disgusting than they did when they came out.

Sadly, if AA is sucessful in lowering the bar, the other airlines will be forced to match it. And the ratcheting down continues.............

If your hoping new York comes up with a magic solution your in trouble. The little I've seen from him makes me sick the guy is disolutional! I know the company is a pos for all the crap they have done to us throughout the years but now is not the time to be playing chicken with them. They have and will always have the upper hand! Until we as a unit put our foot down and say no more and be prepared to walk out they won't take us seriously.

 

[strikeforce]

Why is it that no one can define an AMT at American Airlines?

With a separate contract between the line and OH, then the line could finally shed itself from OH and obtain a different union. The line could get AMFA and that would leave OH with the TWU.

Having a large number of OSM's at OH would ensure a competitive wage comparable to the MROs, but would the FAA allow the majority of the aircraft in the United States to be maintained under such a program? I understand there is no need for all of these personal to be licensed, but will American Airlines want non A&P's in lieu of A&P's. Or to be blunt, can Title I non-licensed mechanics fulfill the company requirements on the aircraft docks?

In the event of a RIF, can the company keep the A&P's instead of the rest of the non-licensed Title I mechanics?

There are no restrictions as to the number of OSM's that AA can use at the base. The line stations can use OSM's in positions that don't require the use of the A&P. It's in the term sheet.

Tulsa will be the Timco for AA. majority OSM's and few AMT's with A&P's. The TWU won't have a choice in the matter. They better accept the fact that most in Tulsa will make MRO wages...$23/hr. The TWU should fight for higher wages at Line stations comparable to WN in order to supplement the dues deficit at the bases. It can only be done with seperate contracts.

That scenerio is much better than:

1. Outsourcing 100% of Tulsa
2. Diminishing wages and benefits for ALL amt's in order to supplement lower paid jobs in Tulsa.
3. Risk outsourcing 100% of M&E.

 

[Bob Owens]

At US Airways the passenger service agents voted overwhelmingly to authorize a strike or other lawful job action because management petitioned the bankruptcy judge to throw out (abrogation) their union contract and imposes concessions through the bankruptcy process without a vote of the employees. The threat of a strike made all parties involved nervous CWA was able to push back against some of the harsher and more excessive proposals made by US Airways management.

http://web.archive.org/web/20041202012752/http://www.cwa.net/

http://web.archive.org/web/20041031025329/http://www.cwa.net/

I had begged the head of our Union to rally AFL-CIO support for the USAIR workers and threaten to stage a political strike if they abrogate any labor agreements because I knew that once they did it to USAIR we would all be screwed. They cited the letter in their charges against me when they removed me from office. Well we got screwed, they never missed a payraise, Sonny Hall swore he "would not rest" until we got it all back. He's long since retired, we probably never will thanks to their lack of leadership and the carnage continues.

 

[Bob Owens]

Cost per ASM for maintenance does include all maintenance related costs whether performed by airline employees or outside contractors. At its worst, AA had costs 66% higher than its lowest cost network competitor. AA has reduced that gap while other carrier's maintenance costs have gone up so that the difference is most recently at less than 20%.
If AA is able to do significant amounts of work using lower paid inhouse employees, then there is a good chance that they can offset many of the supposed advantages of outsourcing.

Sure and those costs would include all the mods and repairs on older aircraft which in theory should either be paid for or leased at low rates because they are old. Its understandable that an airline with the oldest fleet would have higher maintenance costs than one with a younger fleet but that does not mean that in totality the newer fleet is more cost effective. As the older planes are retired and replaced by newer aircarft maintenance costs will continue to decline.

As much as bean counters refuse to acknowledge it poor morale can have a huge effect on maintenance costs. Pissed off mechanics are likely to just shotgun parts instead of troubleshoot, resulting in lots of parts being changed that may not have needed to be changed. Sure they save money on wages but between the parts and the OT the savings on wages are wiped out.

 

[commavia]

Its understandable that an airline with the oldest fleet would have higher maintenance costs than one with a younger fleet but that does not mean that in totality the newer fleet is more cost effective.

Except, of course, that AA doesn't have the oldest fleet.

 

[1AA]

View attachment 9326

If you read the term sheet it is dated February of 2011. LAST YEAR. I inquired about it before spreading it around the Internet and the response I received from two local presidents was that it was not brought up by the company in any form of negotiations or BK proposals. Those numbers do not currently exist in any proposal or counter proposal. The term sheet is not a valid document. Stop spreading rumors that will create panic among ourselves. Stick to the information that we do have.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

If you read the term sheet it is dated February of 2011. LAST YEAR. I inquired about it before spreading it around the Internet and the response I received from two local presidents was that it was not brought up by the company in any form of negotiations or BK proposals. Those numbers do not currently exist in any proposal or counter proposal. The term sheet is not a valid document. Stop spreading rumors that will create panic among ourselves. Stick to the information that we do have.

Looking at this "Term sheet' you see
1 eliminate avionics crew chiefs
2 Delete Baker letter for UB
3 Eliminate avionics AMT positions

These are items from the "ask" that we were given on 2-1-12. That document is readily available everywhere. As much as I wish it were not so, it certainly looks like it is happening. Given these items were on documents previously release it stands to reason the "2-1-2011" is merely a typo. To my knowledge NONE of these 3 items listed were even talked about among our ranks last year. It`s a typo. This whole thing is surreal and I wish it was not so but it is. Good luck.

 

[767 mechanic]

Very good breakdown of the OH base's true numbers. I've always said AA is already outsourcing OH by having 25% of the workers getting paid 30% less than the licensed mechanics.
I posted on this forum a while back wondering why we can't compare our labor costs per available seat mile to the other airlines but I guess it gets fuzzy when other airlines don't count outsourced OH as labor costs. But someone somewhere has to know what it costs AA to overhaul a 777 and what an MRO will charge. Yes they have lower costs but after adding a profit margin to their lower costs I would think we would be close enough to offset the loss of quality, scheduling and future cost increases that outsourcing would bring.

I talked to a rep from our local. He said that we asked what was the price quoted for overhauling the widebodies. The company said that they assumed that they could get it done for $29.50 an hour. I was told that the comittee had a little laugh over that number. The company said they assumed that they could get that price in Asia,but had not started getting quotes from any MRO,s yet. Tell me this how can you make the decision to outsource something when you have no idea of what it cost to outsource it. This is the same old stupid decicions by management that put us in this position. Some of the other things that he said were that the company said Tulsa will be going down to 4 737 lines in the future with 80 people per line and that the city has promised $12 an hour per person until the end of the year for every person on the base. He also said that the company said that there are 61 amts at DFW working on bottle jacks, bowsers and other similiar items,but the kicker is there is only about 3. Some of these numbers prove that the company is lieing through its teeth. One thing is for sure and this process is fluid and it will change on a daily basis. Oh and another thing that people might want to know is that the retirement of Mark Burdette was short lived. The company hired him back as a consultant for neg. Sure would like to know what the consultant is getting paid.

 

[Birdman]

TUL 1D restarts full seven day coverage on Feb. 17. SMT & TFS off. Local supervision has stated that 1D is 60% understaffed for this schedule. Moral has plummeted.

Whenever the full RIF happens , I am pretty sure that those left will enjoy training those that backfill those positions. I am hopeful that there will be enough retirements to offset the layoffs.

Supervision can't run a 5 day operation, why would anyone think they can run a 7? Until we see new manager down leadership, nothing will change.

Taking 12-18 months to close AFW, how motivated are those guys going to be.

From what I hear AFW has had good productivity. Perhaps AA hopes many of those will come to TULE and turn things around.