IAM & AFA file for elections at DL
- Thread starter Kev3188
- Start date
For God's sake don't vote in the IAM. No autonomy, white ballot voting, very little of your dues will stay with the local, other airlines vote on YOUR representatives. Any questions, email me! Just ask any former TWA f/a about the great IAM "clout". I will actively work against the IAM at any and every attempt to become a f/a representative. It is ALL about the dues...into the General Chairs pocket. Great gig if you're the chosen.
If you don't believe me ask to be given a copy of their Constitution and By-laws.
The Janitor
Advanced
southwind
Veteran
Hopefully, we can get this over with, which ever way it goes, then everyone can get back to doing the job they get paid to do !
PlayTheOdds
Veteran
Just browsed through this a bit and found it to be absolutly appaling. What is that crap about the North and South coming together? How long has Delta been operating without a union? Let me tell you something about Southern people, they are not afraid to work. Also they expect to get paid for what they do and are cofortable with that. For example a cleaner would expect to get paid a cleaners wage which I would suspect to be in the range of eight to ten dollars an hour for someone starting out. Max would be fifteen to seventeen dollars an hour. What happens when you bring a union into the equation? Welll that union is going to overinflate the job to around 20 to 30 an hour then set all these rules for this woker to work by then take their money as well. Then a lesser person is going to come along with more senority and take that persons job in some silly reallinement. Then the person that just had their job stolen from them by their on brethern is going to be totally disgruntled and quit and have to now go back to working a lesser paying job after getting used to the overinflated wages. As for the person stealing the job in accordance with union rule, well they will be faced with concessions or the company filing BK because of the overinflated wages. Then the union will call a strike and all the employees that went to school or a journeyman program so that they could earn the higher paying jobs wil be brought down with them.
From the IAM
LINK PROVIDED:
"...Ben Hirst and the IAM
Last week we spoke of Richard Andersons management philosophy which included maintaining a close relationship with the unions and their leadership. Mr. Anderson believed that having an open and fair relationship with the unions was a key element to the Companys success. Today we will share Deltas General Counsel and Senior VP Ben Hirsts view on unions and the IAMs role in the airline industry.
Mr. Hirst also worked at Northwest Airlines, under Richard Anderson, prior to hiring on with Delta. Mr. Hirsts title then was Senior VP of Corporate Affairs. He was a key member of the Richard Anderson management team. Here are some excerpts from a speech he gave at one of our IAM District 143 Conventions.
While addressing over 100 union delegates who were in attendance, he asked the question, Why should we care about the union movement? He then answered his question as follows: Well, the union movement supports a decent standard of living for its members, supports job security, which, in my opinion, is in the Companys interest and not just the interest of individual employees…job security provides stability in a work force [and] is a very important element in delivering a product like ours and doing it in a very safe way. Because of this, you have to associate unions with family stability.
He went on to say, Unions, because of their ability to bargain for decent wages, support not only individuals…but also the local economies. Mr. Hirst also stated, Unions stand for safety in the workplace. That is a point I make in Washington again and again and again.
He concluded by stating, I think at the end of the day unions stand for human dignity because they represent people coming together and standing up for themselves in an environment which sometimes is brutal enough to overlook the importance of individuals. So I tell you where I come out on all of this is that the union movement is a very good thing. I learned that in a hard school...."
____________________________________________________
From the mouths of the NWA Executives that conspired with the IAM to break the AMFA strike at Northwest Airlines...The IAM is a scab union because they performed struck work at NWA during the AMFA strike. The IAM recognizes the mutual admiration between themselves and the now DELTA management tream by inviting the then NWA/now DAL management team to the IAM convention where they praised unions like the scabs at the IAM.
Does anyone not understand that there is no difference between management at the airline and management at the IAM?
I am a forced dues payer to the TWU, the only union possibly worse than the IAM, where there is no difference between the airline management and the TWU management.
Do not make a mistake that the socialists in Washington DC will prevent you from undoing: better no UNION than the TWU or the IAM.
LINK PROVIDED:
"...Ben Hirst and the IAM
Last week we spoke of Richard Andersons management philosophy which included maintaining a close relationship with the unions and their leadership. Mr. Anderson believed that having an open and fair relationship with the unions was a key element to the Companys success. Today we will share Deltas General Counsel and Senior VP Ben Hirsts view on unions and the IAMs role in the airline industry.
Mr. Hirst also worked at Northwest Airlines, under Richard Anderson, prior to hiring on with Delta. Mr. Hirsts title then was Senior VP of Corporate Affairs. He was a key member of the Richard Anderson management team. Here are some excerpts from a speech he gave at one of our IAM District 143 Conventions.
While addressing over 100 union delegates who were in attendance, he asked the question, Why should we care about the union movement? He then answered his question as follows: Well, the union movement supports a decent standard of living for its members, supports job security, which, in my opinion, is in the Companys interest and not just the interest of individual employees…job security provides stability in a work force [and] is a very important element in delivering a product like ours and doing it in a very safe way. Because of this, you have to associate unions with family stability.
He went on to say, Unions, because of their ability to bargain for decent wages, support not only individuals…but also the local economies. Mr. Hirst also stated, Unions stand for safety in the workplace. That is a point I make in Washington again and again and again.
He concluded by stating, I think at the end of the day unions stand for human dignity because they represent people coming together and standing up for themselves in an environment which sometimes is brutal enough to overlook the importance of individuals. So I tell you where I come out on all of this is that the union movement is a very good thing. I learned that in a hard school...."
____________________________________________________
From the mouths of the NWA Executives that conspired with the IAM to break the AMFA strike at Northwest Airlines...The IAM is a scab union because they performed struck work at NWA during the AMFA strike. The IAM recognizes the mutual admiration between themselves and the now DELTA management tream by inviting the then NWA/now DAL management team to the IAM convention where they praised unions like the scabs at the IAM.
Does anyone not understand that there is no difference between management at the airline and management at the IAM?
I am a forced dues payer to the TWU, the only union possibly worse than the IAM, where there is no difference between the airline management and the TWU management.
Do not make a mistake that the socialists in Washington DC will prevent you from undoing: better no UNION than the TWU or the IAM.
tech2101
Veteran
Thank you. I watched the IAM union leadership (sigh) encourage their members to go to out stations and get training in pushbacks, oil servicing, and cockpit brake riding/taxiing while I was still on the job preparing for the inevitable strike/lockout.
Never forget. The IAM will pretend like this never happened. The same people who orchestrated this are now leaders in the IAM.
PlayTheOdds
Veteran
It is good to see that someone here recognizes that as well as I. ExNWA doesn't even recognize the IAM as a scab union. All those pictures and names of scabs they have posted and I don't think a sigle one of them belong to a IAM scab. All the Delta employees have to do is read a few of the posts on these boards to see that there isn't a union out there worth voting in. local12 or Hackman use to say that the members are the union so if that is indeed the case, if the unions are so worthless what does that make the members?
Forced dues payer? That is what the original Delta employees will be if a union gets voted in.
bagboy
Advanced
- Sep 30, 2007
- 205
- 6
Re: Odd man out. Boy, oh boy, where do we start with this. Start with one silly misconception at a time.
"Also they expect to get paid for what they do and are comfortable with that."
Why would you be OK with management receiving an increase in pay, while you have to give concessions?
"Well that union is going to over inflate the job to around 20 to 30 an hour"
Check the history of cleaners wages($30, get real), then do the job. It isn't rocket science, nor is it the greatest job. At NWA we worked both the ramp and cleaned the planes in the out stations. Your management now pays for a separate entity to clean, and pays the ramp to handle the luggage only. Smart business model.
"Then a lesser person is going to come along with more seniority "
This person with more seniority, how are they a lessor employee? With my years of service I have gained experience and knowledge that gives me and edge on most of you. I know that I can do the job of 2 or 3 men when pressed and perform my duties each and every day. This reminds me of all the times I told my father how thing should be when I know now that he obviously knew better.
"As for the person stealing the job in accordance with union rule"
Seniority is just commonsense. If I do the same job as you, we perform the job well enough for the company to keep us employed, seniority rules.
"Then the union will call a strike and all the employees that went to school or a journeyman program so that they could earn the higher paying jobs wil be brought down with them."
I'd love to give you another crack at this one. Complete gibberish.
"Also they expect to get paid for what they do and are comfortable with that."
Why would you be OK with management receiving an increase in pay, while you have to give concessions?
"Well that union is going to over inflate the job to around 20 to 30 an hour"
Check the history of cleaners wages($30, get real), then do the job. It isn't rocket science, nor is it the greatest job. At NWA we worked both the ramp and cleaned the planes in the out stations. Your management now pays for a separate entity to clean, and pays the ramp to handle the luggage only. Smart business model.
"Then a lesser person is going to come along with more seniority "
This person with more seniority, how are they a lessor employee? With my years of service I have gained experience and knowledge that gives me and edge on most of you. I know that I can do the job of 2 or 3 men when pressed and perform my duties each and every day. This reminds me of all the times I told my father how thing should be when I know now that he obviously knew better.
"As for the person stealing the job in accordance with union rule"
Seniority is just commonsense. If I do the same job as you, we perform the job well enough for the company to keep us employed, seniority rules.
"Then the union will call a strike and all the employees that went to school or a journeyman program so that they could earn the higher paying jobs wil be brought down with them."
I'd love to give you another crack at this one. Complete gibberish.
The Janitor
Advanced
I think it will be absolutely hysterical if the ramp is smart enough to vote for representation as the mechanics are still fretting and complaining all over themselves by pointing the finger at everyone else.
The mechanic groups everywhere are so divided among themselves that they continually piss all over themself.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #12
Um, I don't know about you, but I've been doing my job all along. Have you not?
DL uses the term "North and South" a lot.
Actually, there's already 2 on the property; ALPA & PAFCA.
How did you come to be the spokesman/woman for everyone south of the Mason-Dixon Line?
That's a little extreme, and you know it.
Let me get this straight; More seniority= "lesser" worker? You're going to need to explain that one...
Small point: Almost all of those "leaders" were voted out at the first opportunity.
I guess the non-union supporters dont realize that unionized workers are more productive and earn more than their non-union counterparts.
And why is it ok for the CEO and executives to have contracts but not the workers who are the ones earning the company the money and taking care of the passengers?
And why is it ok for the CEO and executives to have contracts but not the workers who are the ones earning the company the money and taking care of the passengers?
bagboy
Advanced
- Sep 30, 2007
- 205
- 6
Kev is dead on with the IAM leadership turnover. After BK there weren't many left from the old regime. Also, as a ramp employee, I was trained to do all three job functions you listed in 2000 not in 2004 or 2005 like many on your seniority list. They are all covered under the IAM Black book along with air-starts, deicing, cleaning. Industry dictated the change in push-back policy, with NWA being one of the few airlines that had mechanics ground handling aircraft. Shouldn't someone of your skill level be putting their talents to better use than sitting in a tug all day. The cleaning didn't work out too well for anyone thanks to the AMFA members and now Delta contracting all cleaning out. There is always power in numbers. AMFA members did the dividing and NWA did the conquering.
_____________________________________________
Kev3188 & bagboy,
You both admit that during the AMFA strike at NWA, the IAM was a SCAB Union; use the same rules for everybody: once a SCAB, always a SCAB.
You both attempt to mitigate the SCAB status by pointing to the removal of "leaders" that led locals during the SCAB work.
Neither of you make a case that the IAM will not SCAB future work done by another Union on the same property.
I am a forced dues payor to the most ineffective, most effective concessionary Union in the airline business, the TWU: having said that, I would still prefer being non-union to being an industry busiting member of a SCAB represented by the IAM.
