Line Premium

[odie01]

Bob,
What happens when AA turns profits for consecutive quarters under bancruptsy without a consentual contract from the twu, apa, or apfa, can they emerge from BK . Do they need agreements from all of us, or could they bypass the twu if they have contracts from the pilots and flight attendents?

 

[Bob Owens]

This is the first I've heard of this one, sure you didn't dream this one up. I don't recall ever voting on anything like this.

Must be some new "Bob Boogaloo"....lol

Talk to Randy MacDonald about it.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Talk to Randy MacDonald about it.

What? What the hell does he have to do with our current status? This is 2012 and AA has filed bankruptcy if you didn't know, perhaps you need a time out Bob.....WTF

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,
What happens when AA turns profits for consecutive quarters under bancruptsy without a consentual contract from the twu, apa, or apfa, can they emerge from BK . Do they need agreements from all of us, or could they bypass the twu if they have contracts from the pilots and flight attendents?

Forget BK.
11th hour of the 29th day. That hasnt changed.
Better to live under an abrogated deal till we get to the 11th hour than another consentual bad deal till at least 2018.

I for one want to hear what the NMB will say when after 4years of negotiations, a year after they walked out on us, after another concessionary deal under the threat of abrogation was rejected by the members, and after abrogation they still do not consider us to be at an impasse. Was that how the RLA was supposed to be administered? Hold workers down until they submit to whatever the carriers feels like paying them? If so why shouldnt transport workers resort to the "illegal activities" that they engaged in prior to the RLA?

 

[Bob Owens]

Didnt you say? "I have always said.  Equalize the Skill pay to the A&P pay, never take anything away from anyone...."

 

[High Speed Steel]

Forget BK.
11th hour of the 29th day. That hasnt changed.
Better to live under an abrogated deal till we get to the 11th hour than another consentual bad deal till at least 2018.

I for one want to hear what the NMB will say when after 4years of negotiations, a year after they walked out on us, after another concessionary deal under the threat of abrogation was rejected by the members, and after abrogation they still do not consider us to be at an impasse. Was that how the RLA was supposed to be administered? Hold workers down until they submit to whatever the carriers feels like paying them? If so why shouldnt transport workers resort to the "illegal activities" that they engaged in prior to the RLA?

Yep. It's break time for you....

 

[odie01]

Forget BK.
11th hour of the 29th day. That hasnt changed.
Better to live under an abrogated deal till we get to the 11th hour than another consentual bad deal till at least 2018.

I for one want to hear what the NMB will say when after 4years of negotiations, a year after they walked out on us, after another concessionary deal under the threat of abrogation was rejected by the members, and after abrogation they still do not consider us to be at an impasse. Was that how the RLA was supposed to be administered? Hold workers down until they submit to whatever the carriers feels like paying them? If so why shouldnt transport workers resort to the "illegal activities" that they engaged in prior to the RLA?

I agree Bob, but can the company come out of bankcruptsy wo a contract from the unions? And how do we reach that 11th hour of the 29th day with the twu international bringing us back crap to vote on?

 

[High Speed Steel]

Didnt you say? "I have always said. Equalize the Skill pay to the A&P pay, never take anything away from anyone...."

Yes Bob. What that means is if an A&P gets $5.00 for two license, then High Skill should get $5.00 too.....Equal pay for equal work B)

 

[DNTULSA]

Rating : -79

You are doing good, lowspeed.

You certainly dazzle everyone with your rapierlike wit!

 

[AC Tynker]

Rating : -79

You are doing good, lowspeed.

You certainly dazzle everyone with your rapierlike wit!

Just out of curosity what is so important about this Rating number ? I went and re-read the Board Rules and Regs to see if it had a negative level you reach where you get Muzzled or Banned and was unable to find anything about it. Just curious of what was so special and why I have seen it brought up from time to time.

 

[Raptorman49]

The company offered $2.55 line and steadily refused to consider GEO even though its much less money and more palatable to the base. I think their motive is that they want to encourage higher paid experienced base mechanics to migrate to the line so they can backfill the base spots with low paid OSMs.

IMO the company has never had a plan to lay off 4500 heads. They admitted in court that they never even put the work out for bids. Other articles cite the shortage of skilled workers that has been described as the greatest threat to the MRO industry. If they cant maintain staff to do what they have now how could they take on AA's work? While the widebodies may go away (internationally-keyword "may")and cause a few hundred riffs, if any at all once regular attrition and an Early Out kick in, I think that AAs next dilemma is how can they introduce young blood into maintenence? I think that AA plans to end up with a ratio of around the same as other legacies (which will slowly increase as companies find the most cost effective balance between insourcing and outsourcing) but the reduction in headcout will be primarily through attrition, there very well may be 4500 less of us here in 2018 but if AA does not find a way to get workers to leave faster than the work they will end up with a workforce in 2018 where the average age is around 60 years of age!!
That drives up costs and leaves the carrier in a very bad spot. They are on track to end up with an excess of older workers and a shortage of younger workers which would become extremely severe by the mid 2020s. They need to offer early outs to avoid this, its not something we should consider financing from our side of the table.

Exactly Bob I agree that's why i'm not buying off on the idea that the TWU will be saving thousands of jobs if we vote for a concessionary contract, I think Layoffs will happen exactly the way you suggested slowly over time as we get new Planes.

 

[Raptorman49]

Forget BK.
11th hour of the 29th day. That hasnt changed.
Better to live under an abrogated deal till we get to the 11th hour than another consentual bad deal till at least 2018.

I for one want to hear what the NMB will say when after 4years of negotiations, a year after they walked out on us, after another concessionary deal under the threat of abrogation was rejected by the members, and after abrogation they still do not consider us to be at an impasse. Was that how the RLA was supposed to be administered? Hold workers down until they submit to whatever the carriers feels like paying them? If so why shouldnt transport workers resort to the "illegal activities" that they engaged in prior to the RLA?

I'm with you on that one Abrogation doesn't scare me a bad 6 year contract does !

 

[Raptorman49]

Just out of curosity what is so important about this Rating number ? I went and re-read the Board Rules and Regs to see if it had a negative level you reach where you get Muzzled or Banned and was unable to find anything about it. Just curious of what was so special and why I have seen it brought up from time to time.

The rating means nothing, its just a score of how popular ones opinions are amongst the individuals that are frequenting the forum but doesn't mean that is the consensus of the Majority of Employee's of the company, there may be more line guys in here or AMFA guys or some other group etc. just as an example, I don't pay any attention to it myself, if you don't either then your on the right track.

 

[Duke787]

I agree we shouldn't give up ANYTHING, for an early out package that helps AA more then helps out the majority of the TWU. We shouldn't pay anything to help AA's bottom line AGAIN.

I can't believe we are paying for uniforms, year after year, it's like we're leasing polyester pants and shirts at Armani prices. ( in 2003 there was a monitory number given, in the millions, when we turned in half our uniforms )

 

[Buck]

Yes Bob. What that means is if an A&P gets $5.00 for two license, then High Skill should get $5.00 too.....Equal pay for equal work B)

Curious, a machinist license or certificate is worth the same as A&P tickets?

What was your position on the scaled pay groups?
The B Scale, SRP and OSM's etc.?

Are there any Title I AMT's that are machinists that are going to bump to the hangars?