New B717 flying for DL

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

DL is heavily pushing for the 330neo because it will have operating costs that are as good as the 787 and 350 but at much lower prices because Airbus has already built 1000 330s and have very few development costs to pay.

There will be airlines that will need airplanes with more range than the 330neo - and the 332neo could be a 14 hour airplane - covering much of the world nonstop.

DL will buy a larger, longer range aircraft than the 332neo if it is built. I am betting they will go with 787-9s or 773ERs - but a lot fewer than AA or UA are buying because DL doesn't believe it is necessary to buy as many new technology airplanes with their high prices when older technology but cheaper airplanes can do the job.
 

 
DL might find it difficult to convince Airbus to offer the A330neo.  Afterall, would it not then severely erode sales of the A350?
 
Regarding the 773ER, it might be the perfect replacement for some of the B747-400s (along with the 777-8x or 777-9x but will DL want to be among the first to operate the 777-8/9X).

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm not going to start a thread on whether Airbus will start the 330neo or not. You can find thousands of posts on the subject elsewhere on the internet.

The evidence is fairly strong that Airbus will move forward with the 330neo and that Rolls-Royce has been tapped to be the sole engine provider for it.

DL has already said the 777X is too heavy and not in consideration because it is not currently operating.

the whole 787 problem highlights why DL is not going to order a paper airplane. Someone else can get the kinks worked out.

not even sure that the 773ER is the right size aircraft. DL is focusing its Pacific strategy on opening a lot more nonstop routes from the US to Asia using smaller gauge aircraft. The 773ER in a typical configuration is only about 50 seats smaller than the 744. DL indicated it wants an aircraft that is about 100 seats smaller than the 744. That tends to say 787-9 or 350-900.

 

[eolesen]

AA had the F100s but dumped them. Perhaps you can provide a comparative summary of why the F100s were such a flop and why the 717 would have been better.

AA ordered the F100s directly from Fokker, right?

AA bought them new from Fokker during the days where the APA was able to hold firm on AA being unable to operate RJ's. After the 30 second strike in Feb 1997 and subsequent PEB where AA won the right to use RJ's, they became obsolete.

Cost-wise, they couldn't compete with the 70 and 90 seaters from Embraer or Bombardier. From a reliability standpoint, they weren't exactly the sturdiest airframe. You could push against the fuselage between stringers, and it would flex. Can't do that on a Douglas or a Boeing...

IIRC, the final death-knell for the F100's at AA was an engine related AD which was going to run $2-4M per aircraft using AA's mechanics. Apparently that either wasn't an issue in Mexico, Colombia or Brasil, which is where the bulk of the F100's wound up and the acquiring airlines were able to do the work far cheaper.

 

[CMH_GSE]

AA bought them new from Fokker during the days where the APA was able to hold firm on AA being unable to operate RJ's. After the 30 second strike in Feb 1997 and subsequent PEB where AA won the right to use RJ's, they became obsolete.Cost-wise, they couldn't compete with the 70 and 90 seaters from Embraer or Bombardier. From a reliability standpoint, they weren't exactly the sturdiest airframe. You could push against the fuselage between stringers, and it would flex. Can't do that on a Douglas or a Boeing...IIRC, the final death-knell for the F100's at AA was an engine related AD which was going to run $2-4M per aircraft using AA's mechanics. Apparently that either wasn't an issue in Mexico, Colombia or Brasil, which is where the bulk of the F100's wound up and the acquiring airlines were able to do the work far cheaper.

I remember when I first saw the Tay650 engines in TAESEL, good lord, they looked like tinker toys compared to the RB 211's.
I made it a point to never fly on an F100.

 

[WorldTraveler]

cmh,
did you ever work on the BR 715s on the 717 or the IAE V2500s on the M90?

thoughts on those two?

 

[BABABOOY]

Wow interesting civil discussion.  
I'm curious if any one here has flown on the 717?  Thoughts?
Ever sit in 10C ?   From a F/A's perspective these are the least 
desired  a/c to work (Add M90) due to Delta's desire to to change
the beverage cart and Galley configurations.  Just curious for those 
who actually  flown it thought.  

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, I have flown it Baba.

basic, comfortable transportation. period. with 110 volt outlets that came in handy even on a 2 hour flight.

the FA disdain for the McD-D galleys is apparent.... but as DL professionals, they just smile.
I pitied the FA on the 739 for the "slimline" galley she had to work in and she said nothing foul even while passengers were spilling into the galley waiting to use the toilets.

not quite what they have flown on 757s for years.

some of us know the challenges your coworkers face and how well you handle it.

 

[robbedagain]

baba when FL had the 717  I flew on it 2 times and it was real nice and quiet too vs the md-88s   I believe the engines on the 717 are close to the same as the md-90  correct?

 

[WorldTraveler]

sorry to jump in, robbed, but the M90 engines are IAE V2500s, the same as one of the family of options on the A320 while the 717 is a Rolls engine. IAE was a joint venture of Rolls and P&W....look up the history if you want to know more.

the 717 and M90 both have modern, current generation engines with comparable fuel burn to anything new right now.

also, the 717 is indeed quiet esp compared to the DC9.

there is a notable difference between the back of an M90 and M88 if you have been in the back half of both.

 

[BABABOOY]

baba when FL had the 717  I flew on it 2 times and it was real nice and quiet too vs the md-88s   I believe the engines on the 717 are close to the same as the md-90  correct?

I have heard that they are.  The only thing I can say about the 717 is that it is quieter than the DC9 lol....
 
Unfortunately the next a/c on the chopping block as far as galleys go, is the airbus A321 when we get them and possibly re-mod
of the A319/20 :-(

 

[WorldTraveler]

the 319/320 reconfig is confirmed.

it is the DL standard new, lighter, but smaller galleys and lavs, an extra row of seats due to slimline seats, larger overhead bins, new sidewalls and lighting, with AVOD on the 319 but not 320.

see here
http://news.delta.com/2014-01-08-Delta-to-Improve-Passenger-Comfort-on-225-Domestic-Narrowbody-Aircraft

DL has indicated that the 319 will be used to destinations including Latin America while the 320 will be for within the US.

 

[robbedagain]

I did sit in one of the last rows on the md90 out of atl and it was loud but nothing compared to the 88s    the a-319 was also quiet out of atl to mlb vs the 88 out of mlb   when I flew on it.    isn't the airbus doing the mods before coming into the fleet baba?

 

[Kev3188]

Wow interesting civil discussion.  
I'm curious if any one here has flown on the 717?  Thoughts?
Ever sit in 10C ?   From a F/A's perspective these are the least 
desired  a/c to work (Add M90) due to Delta's desire to to change
the beverage cart and Galley configurations.  Just curious for those 
who actually  flown it thought.

What's the significance of seat 10C?

 

[WorldTraveler]

have a look at the seat map and it should be obvious.

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/airports-and-aircraft/Aircraft/boeing-717.html

note also the registration number which can be seen on the fuselage of the aircraft on the same map.

see also the A330 seat map.

cool.

 

[CMH_GSE]

cmh,
did you ever work on the BR 715s on the 717 or the IAE V2500s on the M90?

thoughts on those two?

Never worked on those, just the RB211's.
 
Worked on the RB211's a great engine.