OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Today happens to be my 26th anniversary with USAirways.

I did not pay Orenstein $50k to aquire the moon when I got on with a major airline.
I was not told by managment or my fellow workers that we saved another airline, therefore we deserve to fly their aircraft, regardless of seniority.
I was not mislead by Nicalou that I deserved to leapfrog 15 yrs in seniority, because, well, I just work for AWA.
I was not encouraged by Judge Wake and his kangeroo court, which did not allow full disclosure of all the facts, thinking I deserved to screw the East pilots.

No, all I have done is put in my time on the job. I will be damned before I will allow any of the screwed up, aforementioned thoughts to take my position from me.....I have earned it, and will not yield to you entitlement punks.
breeze

Like I said - 26 years and you're still a commuting FO about to retire as a commuting FO.

And like an ass, you think everyone here went to Mesa and has no where near your "experience". Save it. You guys have managed to ding more airplanes and kill more of your customers than most other airlines and are really doing poorly vs our ZERO kills by our MESA pilots.

Our airlines merged. End of story. Get over it.

Funny how idiots like you see Nicolau as senile and Wake as corrupt all the while professing your victimization.

Here's a bridge, a straw, and a full glass of water with a lid so you can get over it, suck it up, and then shut the full cup.

LMAO.

You don't even have a decade on me.

Your career was/is a mess and I will not let you losers fix it at my expense.

Now back to your commute.

 

[mrbreeze]

Like I said - 26 years and you're still a commuting FO about to retire as a commuting FO.

And like an ass, you think everyone here went to Mesa and has no where near your "experience". Save it. You guys have managed to ding more airplanes and kill more of your customers than most other airlines and are really doing poorly vs our ZERO kills by our MESA pilots.

Our airlines merged. End of story. Get over it.

Funny how idiots like you see Nicolau as senile and Wake as corrupt all the while professing your victimization.

Here's a bridge, a straw, and a full glass of water with a lid so you can get over it, suck it up, and then shut the full cup.

LMAO.

You don't even have a decade on me.

Your career was/is a mess and I will not let you losers fix it at my expense.

Now back to your commute.

You're really hung up on this commuting idea. Just shows your lack of time with a real major airline. I choose to commute to live close to my kids. My choice, not a killer thang.

Other than that.....what is your point? You still can't have my position in seniority.....it's mine.
breeze

 

[cleardirect]

Today happens to be my 26th anniversary with USAirways.

I did not pay Orenstein $50k to aquire the moon when I got on with a major airline.
I was not told by managment or my fellow workers that we saved another airline, therefore we deserve to fly their aircraft, regardless of seniority.
I was not mislead by Nicalou that I deserved to leapfrog 15 yrs in seniority, because, well, I just work for AWA.
I was not encouraged by Judge Wake and his kangeroo court, which did not allow full disclosure of all the facts, thinking I deserved to screw the East pilots.

No, all I have done is put in my time on the job. I will be damned before I will allow any of the screwed up, aforementioned thoughts to take my position from me.....I have earned it, and will not yield to you entitlement punks.
breeze

Congratulations. So at the time of the merger you were 76% SENIORITY on the east list with 18 years. On the Nicolau list you are 74% SENIORITY.

Not all us came from Mesa.

When are you guys going to get it through your think skulls that you did not lose 15 years of SENIORITY. You may have 15 years more LONGEVITY but that is not SENIORITY. I would think that with all those years at US Airways you might understand the difference. You GAINED 2% SENIORITY by the Nicolau.

Wake did not hold a kangaroo court he held a FEDERAL court hearing. Seham tried to accuse Wake of alot of things and Seham got shut down VERY quickly when pressed for evidence. If you think that Wake did something wrong you should have filed charges. But Seham learned very fast that making false allegations against a federal judge is dangerous ground to tread.

What you "earned" was an F/O position. That is what you had and that is what Nicolau gave you.

You may think that because Doug Parker has been favoring the east and giving you all of the flying you somehow "earned" something. But he could just as quickly take it all back and give it to the west. Nothing prevents Parker from placing all of the 330 deliveries on the west.

 

[mrbreeze]

Congratulations. So at the time of the merger you were 76% SENIORITY on the east list with 18 years. On the Nicolau list you are 74% SENIORITY.

Not all us came from Mesa.

When are you guys going to get it through your think skulls that you did not lose 15 years of SENIORITY. You may have 15 years more LONGEVITY but that is not SENIORITY. I would think that with all those years at US Airways you might understand the difference. You GAINED 2% SENIORITY by the Nicolau.

Wake did not hold a kangaroo court he held a FEDERAL court hearing. Seham tried to accuse Wake of alot of things and Seham got shut down VERY quickly when pressed for evidence. If you think that Wake did something wrong you should have filed charges. But Seham learned very fast that making false allegations against a federal judge is dangerous ground to tread.

What you "earned" was an F/O position. That is what you had and that is what Nicolau gave you.

You may think that because Doug Parker has been favoring the east and giving you all of the flying you somehow "earned" something. But he could just as quickly take it all back and give it to the west. Nothing prevents Parker from placing all of the 330 deliveries on the west.

Call it seniority or longevity, who cares how you split hairs.....the bottom line is the importance of time spent on the job and has nothing to do with some dreamed up idea of leapfrog.

I was a Captain before 9/11. Unfortunately, with Washington Reagan being closed down after 9/11 for an extended period of time, USAir management decided to declare force majuire (sp?) and parked 101 of our fleet of 429 jets, furloughing 1958 pilots. You guys probly never dreamed of having 429 jets, eh?

Now, for you to claim that you deserve a higher position than pilots who have invested more time on the job is BS. You are no better than the terriorists who have tried to take advantage of the events of 9/11.

We will not give in to that concept.

Your hometown boy, Wake did not allow full argument about the seniority dispute, yet you claim a victory, which is BS.

330's in PHX, you're kidding, right?

breeze

 

[nic4us]

Typical adolescent response......obviuosly, you guys are junior and see your lottery ticket vanishing before your eyes.


Let me guess.....you both put in your long, tough 5 yrs with Mesa, where Orenstein promised you the world for your $50k, right?

breeze

First...I do not see anything vanishing...to this date..and for the duration..the Nic is the only system seniority list at LCC.

Second, I was also a captain prior to 9/11...the difference between you and me was when AWA furloughed following 9/11..I kept my seat and position...so don't go to this BS about 9/11 hit you harder....you company was already failing and the timing of 9/11 just made it a certainty.

Third....I did not pay Orenstein or any other airline for training...as a matter of fact my ATP and the 5 transport type ratings on it have all been on my employer's dime.

Fourth...Since you are not going to STFU...I will simply tell you that your description of Wake in Addington highlights the typical malcontent whiner position of the AFO east losers.

Finally, usapa knows it is the Nic. Usapa also knows they have been shut out from input in the AMR deal. Going forward, usapa knows the gig is up. Either put Nic on the table or be removed from relevancy. Get used to it.

Oh, one more thing...the biggest difference between you and me is I look forward to flying with you one day!

 

[Move2CLT]

You're really hung up on this commuting idea. Just shows your lack of time with a real major airline. I choose to commute to live close to my kids. My choice, not a killer thang.

Other than that.....what is your point? You still can't have my position in seniority.....it's mine.
breeze

You have your relative position on the Nic and I have mine. Sounds like I may be just above you. Congrats on keeping your position!

LMAO.

 

[fifidriver]

And a system that encourages them. The east pilots are only doing what everyone told them they could, and should. From Prater on down. 'Its ok boys, have at it.'

As long as no one tells them no or hits them on the nose with a two by four, what does one expect? Locks only keep honest people honest. I do dare say that there is nothing so noble about the west pilots, or any other group of pilots, that they would not do the same feeling similarly aggrieved and presented with the same 'opportunity.'

I disagree. What you're saying assumes moral relativism. We are all individuals and the sum of our individual choices, actions and vocalization, or alternately, the lack thereof, constitutes the morality of the "group". And there IS something more "noble about the west pilots, or any other group of pilots, that they would not do the same, feeling similarly aggrieved and presented with the same 'opportunity'." That "nobility", at least so far, appears to include the judicial branch of our government, which by extension represents the rest of the country.
We are not all the same mindless, choiceless automatons. That is why there is no T-shirt for Easties. As a group, they lack integrity, morality and nobility. Their mothers and fathers would NOT be proud. The West, although far from perfect, would most definitely NOT have done the same thing.

 

[Ames]

I believe it takes two sides to make a mess of this magnitude. I'll leave all the completely ridiculous and entirely childish BS to yours = "We stand FIRMLY on legal, moral, & ethical high ground." Sure you do kid!...Umm....Sure you do...

It does take two sides to make a mess of this magnitude. One side doing the wrong thing and one doing the right thing.

The west is right in accordance with the law.

 

[Ames]

PS: Sigh! How heroic indeed. Do you have any spokesmen that can rise above the level of pathetic little drama queens?...Just wondering....

I'll step in. We westies are in this to the end. No drama. Get over it, scumbag.

 

[Ames]

I am not pissed, just have to respond when an adolescent tells me to STFU, when he has no grounds to judge.

Just because you guys came from Mesa and Orenstien promised you the world for your $50k in training, doesn't mean that you are professional pilots, until you really pay your dues. Leapfrogging in seniority doesn't hold water in this industry.
breeze

Why do you scumbags assume we all come from Mesa? Please enlighten us as to how you "paid your dues" to get to your stellar career as US Airways.

 

[Ames]

Yeah, tell me some more lies......I am starting to believe you.....LOL!
breeze

There's the center of the problem. Eastholes see clear facts as lies.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I disagree. What you're saying assumes moral relativism. We are all individuals and the sum of our individual choices, actions and vocalization, or alternately, the lack thereof, constitutes the morality of the "group". And there IS something more "noble about the west pilots, or any other group of pilots, that they would not do the same, feeling similarly aggrieved and presented with the same 'opportunity'." That "nobility", at least so far, appears to include the judicial branch of our government, which by extension represents the rest of the country.
We are not all the same mindless, choiceless automatons. That is why there is no T-shirt for Easties. As a group, they lack integrity, morality and nobility. Their mothers and fathers would NOT be proud. The West, although far from perfect, would most definitely NOT have done the same thing.

When someone writes the full story of the west's participation in the Ansett chapter of aviation history - you should really read it.

We don't resort to childish T-shirts because - well, they're childish.

This has been a seniority dispute and the east has sought relief and resolution to its grievance in the courts and the ballot.

 

[fifidriver]

When someone writes the full story of the west's participation in the Ansett chapter of aviation history - you should really read it.

We don't resort to childish T-shirts because - well, they're childish.

This has been a seniority dispute and the east has sought relief and resolution to its grievance in the courts.

Aren't you forgetting a few things...?

 

[Piedmont1984]

Aren't you forgetting a few things...?

This is not Thermopylae and you are not a Spartan?

 

[Ames]

Call it seniority or longevity, who cares how you split hairs.....

breeze

You demonstrate another central part of the problem yet again. Eastholes do not differentiate between seniority and longevity. Two very different things, yet they consider that splitting hairs.

Face it, breeze, you clung to a loser airline circling the drain for 18 years. You were mistreated with force majure furloughs, contract concessions and whatever else you whine about.

A better man would have moved on, found a better job. You clung to your situation and seven years ago a company that you considered inferior came in and saved your miserable career.

Now you want to make up for your misery by snaking around a legal and binding process (which you agreed to) in order to take from those who were working for that (inferior) company that saved your ass.

You easthole scumbags just make me sick.