Phoenix
Veteran
Yeah but the new owners and renters can only vote two-to-one against you regarding the current income generation from that property. And we both know its a sham vote. You are in great company.. in a hot desert sort of way.
Pilot Labor Thread for the week 4/19-4/26
- Thread starter Richard
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Yeah but the new owners and renters can only vote two-to-one against you regarding the current income generation from that property. And we both know its a sham vote. You are in great company.. in a hot desert sort of way.
You're not comprehending. There have been no official acts - period. So just for giggles, how bout you give them a chance or wait and see.
One of the recommendations I made at our first meeting was to wear our uniform correctly and remove campaign material from our person, and luggage. The yellow lanyards that were an effective political tool during the NMB election have made their point, but now they could be seen as the continuation of division in our ranks. I have put my yellow lanyard aside, I display my union pin and I have removed any stickers or tags that say “seniority matters†or other statements related to our campaign. I would ask that you do the same with your uniform and to remove any material you see on an aircraft or jetway. The election is over and wearing material that continues to display our political view is no longer productive to our cause- Stephen Bradford
Please keep wearing the lanyards that you are so proud of. Take pride in your new union. Keep the stickers so that we can be constantly reminded what your political and stated views truly are.
Please keep wearing the lanyards that you are so proud of. Take pride in your new union. Keep the stickers so that we can be constantly reminded what your political and stated views truly are.
OK. Let's run some of this scenario out a bit:
1) "Guess what, guys, the west will never cooperate because we realize that we will never be represented fairly." Willfully choosing not to be heard or participate at any level would seem to make that a self-fullfilling prophesy.
2) "I have been a west pilot for 10 years and have never seen such unity among the group." Extend your vison another 10-20 years..and you have our group's position and previously unimaginable unity.
3) "The only choice we have is to do everything in our power to help usapa fail." You've other choices that I believe would serve you much better, but you must decide for yourself of course. I will note that, while the west perception's apparently that USAPA was voted in purely to disadvantage your group, the establishment of your AWAPPA, and any/all efforts at subverting USAPA..well..courts may well view those through other than the AWA-colored glasses many of your folks are wearing. "But, but..Your Honor!...we understand that the Union was elected by a mojority of our pilots..but..well..umm..some of us just didn't like it!".."naturally Your Honor..we then chose to do everything in our power to help usapa fail.". There's a real slam-dunk victory for your side in any court all right...yup...no doubt at all.
4) "Your chances of accomplishing anything are slim to none." After nearly a year's worth of similar propoganda...no one out here's much impressed by such statements. The east has the votes to "go it alone", but, to my mind; that's NOT in our collective group's best interests.
Why? If you feel some need for visual reasons for helping you maintain hostility and "conviction"...your beliefs aren't very strong. The lanyards served to show unity and the election's now over. Why should any seek to keep any portions of the group antagonized against ourselves? No one expects any magical, instant "kiss and make up", but why not offer your people some respect?
Had it been, "we need to replace ALPA because of all the wrong things"....maybe I would. However, we need to replace ALPA because we didn't get what we want and that we have to reneg on what we agreed to maybe it's you that doesn't see the point either.
If there was a need to replace ALPA, it should have been done when we were united and with a contract.
As has been stated by many others; dumping Alpa wasn't, by ANY means, a decision based entirely upon the Nic fiasco. As for "we have to reneg on what we agreed"? It's been fully covered by many others that "we" didn't "agree to" the vast bulk of what was going on within Alpa, via the closed-door "negotiations"..secret dealings,etc, nor were the line pilots part and parcel of these often bizarre "processes". Whenever this, very obvious notion to the longer-lived under Alpa east pilots is said, it's generally responded to with some west denial of the truth contained, and yet another "You guys won't ever take responsibility for anything" shot. Spare yourself the trouble, if you feel the need to shoot that BS again, and just try to understand things from our viewpoint....if only for a moment.
By your same logic = "because we didn't get what we want and that we have to reneg on what we agreed to"..I'll ask that you consider the following:
1) We have a new Union, elected by a majority of the combined pilots, which covers all pilots here, including yourself. Hence "we agreed to".
2) Silence is generally registered as consent in the eyes of the law.
3) You aren't participating in your/our/all's Union, nor making your voice heard therein.
767jetz
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- Aug 20, 2002
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Isn't this the same thing the East did by willfully choosing not to participate in the JNC that could have lead to a mutual solution?
Oh yeah. That wouldn't have served your prime directive. My bad.
Anyone else here smell the hypocrisy?
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
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Just like your democratically elected MEC , which represented all East pilots including yourself, agreed to binding arbitration.
Just like your silence when your MEC threatened to recall the negotiating committee if they didn't tote the party DOH line.
Just like you refusing to participate in the JNC that could have led to solutions.
Yes, Yes... I see now. Rules are only meant to be followed when they favor you. You and you alone get to cherry pick what applies to whom and when. One word... hypocrisy.
Isn't this the same thing the East did by willfully choosing not to participate in the JNC that could have lead to a mutual solution?
Oh yeah. That wouldn't have served your prime directive. My bad.
Anyone else here smell the hypocrisy?
I can tackle that one for the east.
"No, no, no, that is totally different. You see before it was us, now it's them. Completely different situation."
"No one is more outraged at being stolen from then the thief himself."
Isn't this the same thing the East did by willfully choosing not to participate in the JNC that could have lead to a mutual solution?
Oh yeah. That wouldn't have served your prime directive. My bad.
Anyone else here smell the hypocrisy?
Shouldn't you be on the UAL boards telling your brothers why CAL 05' 73 Captains and 00' 75 Captains should have a leg up, and the fact that CAL is in awesome shape comparatively be to their advantage. Of course their fleet plan orders..........
777 deliveries: 2 in 2009; 4 in 2011; 2 in 2012
111 Boeing aircraft deliveries between 2008-2012
Six 737NG aircraft deliveries in 2009 have been deferred to 2010, but an additional 4 737NGs have been ordered for 2010
33 737NG deliveries in 2008
24 737NGs and 2-3 787s for 2009, and 10 737 NGs, 6 787s for 2009-2012
787 fleet total upon delivery completion: 65
......to your old fleet with weak underpowered 777's and no money for replacements means you should end up nicely at that bottom. Good luck with the merger, because I can tell you what the bottom third of the CAL pilots think they deserve. They have a group called the B3(bottom 3rd) that just shoe horned an 06 hire on their merger committee to make sure their "expectations" which are superior to the UAL pilots are met. They will be saving you after all. Your UAL brothers will love your support of the CAL pilots and their superior expectations.
Isn't this the same thing the East did by willfully choosing not to participate in the JNC that could have lead to a mutual solution?
Oh yeah. That wouldn't have served your prime directive. My bad.
Anyone else here smell the hypocrisy?
More sage observations jetz? Or..just another attempt to make any and all fully responsible for Alpo's little "closed door sessions" and unmitigated horescrap in general? Alpo had ZERO ability to ever achieve any "mutual solution" the very moment the Nic was "blessed" and any with an above 40watt awareness fully know that as fact. Nice try, as usual , to slam the east, and imply more non-existent virtues to your beloved Alpo...sigh.
767jetz: "With the voting deadline fast approaching, and the merger news that is likely coming this week, I think two things will happen. (IMO)
1- Those on the fence who have not voted yet will see the wave of mergers as a bad time to ditch ALPA, regardless of how much they hate ALPA. Their thinking will be... what good will USAPA do for me if, within 6 months, we are merged with a much larger airline and end up as APA or ALPA again anyway. If we are perceived as a group who says "we are the majority and can force whatever we want on others," how will we be treated when the tables are turned and we are by far the minority again.
2- Those who have voted already thinking that the merger frenzy was over and the DL/NW deal was dead, will start to reconsider and some will change their vote. (If I'm not mistaken, one can change their vote as often as one likes until the deadline.)"
Anyone else here smell the standard Alpoid/denial BS?
How about just a basic awareness/reality/clue-level check = "and some will change their vote."It's probably time for another of jetz's famous "I told you so" utterances..given the accuracy of intell and notions on the recent election alone.
Reaches yet again for Alpo-Fly Swatter....
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