TUL mechs

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

You don't know either, you are just so ate up with  US & IAM even though you are not affiliated from what you say unless you have lied to everyone here. 

Now you are getting it.

 

[bigjets]

Well I didn't mean to offend anyone.  I do think the maint. in Tulsa is second to none.  Been there almost 30 years and am proud of the work done there.  I would expect anyone at any base at any airline to be proud of their work.  LAX might have a gear pit, but who else does?  What about equipment needed to do stuff like that?  Special tools, gear jacks and dollies?  Also I have noticed if there are major repairs to be done at line stations they usually call a field trip most everywhere, even DFW and LAX.  I by no means said line guys could not do this stuff.  I merely said they don't do it often and some have never done it.  As far as bad weather in PIT it is what it is.  Can they land acft in 4 feet of snow?  As far as the engine shops in CLT and PHX, the way their managers explained the operation, you could do it in your garage.  Also just a handful of mechanics at each engine shop.  A total of about 60 adding the two bases I think.  I have never worked the line and a lot of line guys have never worked overhaul.  I was on a light C line for a while.  If the inspections are done correctly there will be things found that will not be able to be deferred until the next overnight.  They will find cracks in wing structures and corrosion.  You can't fix that stuff overnight.  That is why I think it is a stupid decision.  We have OH mechanics that are used to doing this work.  But this is my own opinion.  I was not trying to knock anybody.  Just trying to make some predictions based on the limited knowledge I have of all of this.  I did get the sarcasm from bigjets and I realize he must have been offended.  As far as 700, I have had him on ignore for a while so I don't read his posts.  All I do know is there is lots of capacity in TULE and lots of mechanics who have done heavy and light C work for many years.  It just makes sense to me to let the guys who have done it their whole career do it.  The kicker is that I think we all know some of the stations will close.  I also know DFW does not have openings but I did say if a RIF happens most in TULE would prefer to go there.  There is lots of seniority here and there would be some from DFW bumped.  That's about it.  No offense intended.  Just one dude's take on stuff.  I'm sure there are lots of different ideas.  I was actually wondering what other guys thought about this stuff too. Just remember that I do not try to offend anyone.

A quick question about a RIF, doesn't the laidoff mech go to where the openings are then it starts bumping the most junior guy to the street. Not the double bumps like we had years ago.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I know size does not mean quality but TULE is the largest commercial maintenance base in the world.

-1 for that......
 
Petty libtards (I am thinking Ms Tree) have nothing better to do then follow me around and -1 me. You would think they could find something more productive to spend their energy on than following someone around that will be "retiring" from the forum soon. Libtards are nothing if not pathetic.
 
Get a life.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

A quick question about a RIF, doesn't the laidoff mech go to where the openings are then it starts bumping the most junior guy to the street. Not the double bumps like we had years ago.

Yes.
 
You will be told this is for the benefit of the employee, to keep them from having to relocate several times (no $12,500 FTW).
 
The question is, do you believe that?

 

[bigjets]

I believe the TWU won't be able to just send TUL mechs to dfw and DWH and screw the line mechs again like in years past, but hopefully a layoff won't be necessary.

I will say this. I will not be willing to take anything less then what delta has, just like the FA's.

What's sad is that mechs use to make half of what a pilot makes, but the IAM and TWU has lowered our expectations to hopefully we can make as much as a FA.

 

[Slopoke]

A quick question about a RIF, doesn't the laidoff mech go to where the openings are then it starts bumping the most junior guy to the street. Not the double bumps like we had years ago.

 
According to the contract they can either bump or fill a vacancy, They don't have to fill a vacancy first. The text below is from the contract.
 
In the applications above, the employee will be advised of and, in the order of his Occupational Seniority, offered his choice of the stations where appropriate vacancies exist and the location or locations of the least senior employees in his classification in the system provided he has sufficient seniority. The number of least senior employees in the appropriate classification (both full-time and part-time) selected for displacement will correspond to the number of employees to be laid off. The list of the least senior employees subject to displacement will be re-sized to reflect the number of employees selecting system options.

 

[texasreb]

According to the contract they can either bump or fill a vacancy, They don't have to fill a vacancy first. The text below is from the contract.
 
In the applications above, the employee will be advised of and, in the order of his Occupational Seniority, offered his choice of the stations where appropriate vacancies exist and the location or locations of the least senior employees in his classification in the system provided he has sufficient seniority. The number of least senior employees in the appropriate classification (both full-time and part-time) selected for displacement will correspond to the number of employees to be laid off. The list of the least senior employees subject to displacement will be re-sized to reflect the number of employees selecting system options.

What I learned from the most recent layoff is the rules don't apply. The company and TWU prettty much do as they please.

 

[dfw gen]

they can do that brother!
 
oh wait wrong thread!

 

[Real tired]

I worked at the PHL hangar, PHL is all line maintenance, no overhaul, no shops etc...
 
It has a line hangar with the stores attached to it and its primaraly staffed mostly on third shift to do the RON maintenance on the A330 and B767s for the ETOPS program.
 
PIT has line maintenance and heavy maintenance, they overhaul A320 family aircraft.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.

Let me chime in here.
 
He is pretty much correct.
 
The work in PIT and CLT is protected until a JCBA is reached between our two groups.  Work in these two stations is classified as Overhaul.  PIT's Overhaul hanger has 3 tracks with one being recently closed with the RIF of about 50 Mechanics.  The company is using this time to modernize the closed track and basically update the hanger.  We also use the line hanger, which is from the 40’s or 50’s as I remember, to do drop in pre-ops mods on …OUR (US 321’s with AA paint jobs)…. new 321’s.  The PIT line hanger  kind of reminds me of the old AA hanger in BUF.
 
We have been doing base work here in PIT for more than 70 years, dating back to the All American Aviation, Mohawk, Lake Central era.  If the company wants it fixed right the first time, they send it here.
 
Try telling an old timer here in PIT the work is going away if you want a black eye.  I’m sure it’s the same in CLT.
 
Everything maintenance oriented for Allegheny and USAir has always been done here.  Until  2005, we had every shop imaginable, including a state of the art engine shop and test cell.  Until then, we were the Mecca for USAir.  That’s all gone now along with about 13,000 jobs.  I’ve lost many friends, and seen too many people lose their careers here in PIT.
 
The stores operation here is the second largest, if I got that fact correct.  CLT, PHL and PIT are all very large stores operations also.
 
I pretty much sure the CLT base has the same history for Piedmont.  And PHX base has the same history for America West.  Maybe someone from those stations could elaborate.  ( I didn’t mention PSA, because the company pretty much destroyed their entire culture, including PSA Airmotive, one of the finest engine shops ever. http://articles.latimes.com/1991-04-18/business/fi-156_1_san-diego
 
PHL, in the history of USAir, has always been pretty much a nothing place until the infighting started between the (PIT) Allegheny County government and USAir some years and bankruptcies ago.  The company then terminated the leases at the new PIT airport and transferred the flights to PHL.  They then de-hubbed PIT and sold off most of the maintenance base and test equipment for pennies on the dollar.  Just like the jobs along with it.  The airport went from being the newest, nicest,  and voted the best airport to fly into in the country, with 125 gates total, and 75 gates devoted to US, down to 6 gates, closed terminals and false walls, with the entire 25 gate commuter terminal turned into a parking lot.
 
Most of the people working  in PHL are from PIT.
 
PHL and PHX are now major hubs with protected line operations and no heavy work.
 
The weather in PIT is not “bad”.  50 to 80 miles to the north and the east are a different matter.  In fact, we have the same growing “zone” as Tennessee and Northern Georgia.  We ….HAD….. two brand new state of the art de-ice pads built to handle the few real bad days here.  They have been long outsourced to Integrated Deicing Services.
 
Not bragging here or stepping on toes, but we’ve been here for a long time.  Just a few things I remember and a little history lesson from the north side of the operation as I learn more and more about the American side of the operation.

 

[dfw gen]

real tired i feel for you. american has been doing the same thing to our maintenance program for the last ten years or so. maintenance in dfw is a joke with some of the clowns running into the ground, this administration is just as bad or worst then the rest. rumor is tulsa is going to be in for a rough time.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

What I learned from the most recent layoff is the rules don't apply. The company and TWU prettty much do as they please.

Let them find out the hard way. They will learn soon enough that the American Airlines/TWU conglomerate does not follow contract.

 

[bigjets]

Am I wrong or is the bankruptcy contract TULE voted in different from the contract that AA and the TWU don't bother to follow now.

 

[Bob Owens]

Well I didn't mean to offend anyone.  I do think the maint. in Tulsa is second to none.  Been there almost 30 years and am proud of the work done there.  I would expect anyone at any base at any airline to be proud of their work.  LAX might have a gear pit, but who else does?  What about equipment needed to do stuff like that?  Special tools, gear jacks and dollies?  Also I have noticed if there are major repairs to be done at line stations they usually call a field trip most everywhere, even DFW and LAX.  I by no means said line guys could not do this stuff.  I merely said they don't do it often and some have never done it.  As far as bad weather in PIT it is what it is.  Can they land acft in 4 feet of snow?  As far as the engine shops in CLT and PHX, the way their managers explained the operation, you could do it in your garage.  Also just a handful of mechanics at each engine shop.  A total of about 60 adding the two bases I think.  I have never worked the line and a lot of line guys have never worked overhaul.  I was on a light C line for a while.  If the inspections are done correctly there will be things found that will not be able to be deferred until the next overnight.  They will find cracks in wing structures and corrosion.  You can't fix that stuff overnight.  That is why I think it is a stupid decision.  We have OH mechanics that are used to doing this work.  But this is my own opinion.  I was not trying to knock anybody.  Just trying to make some predictions based on the limited knowledge I have of all of this.  I did get the sarcasm from bigjets and I realize he must have been offended.  As far as 700, I have had him on ignore for a while so I don't read his posts.  All I do know is there is lots of capacity in TULE and lots of mechanics who have done heavy and light C work for many years.  It just makes sense to me to let the guys who have done it their whole career do it.  The kicker is that I think we all know some of the stations will close.  I also know DFW does not have openings but I did say if a RIF happens most in TULE would prefer to go there.  There is lots of seniority here and there would be some from DFW bumped.  That's about it.  No offense intended.  Just one dude's take on stuff.  I'm sure there are lots of different ideas.  I was actually wondering what other guys thought about this stuff too. Just remember that I do not try to offend anyone. 

Speak what you feel is the truth and don't worry about offending anyone, if the truth offends thats their problem not yours. 
 
As far as DFW being affected there would be minimal if any disruption at DFW thanks to the anti-union concept of a "Juniority list" that we accepted in our contract. When it was sold to the members decades ago it was tied to a $12500 payment in addition to moving allowances, now of course the $12500 is gone but the Juniority list remains. Another example of the legacy of bad bargaining we have been subjected to. 
 
Lets say they decided to close Tulsa. Not likely but just suppose. The junior guys are in NY, LA, MIA and ORD. Figure only around 2800 or so could bump to the line. Of that 2800 probably half are over 55 and would retire. So that knocks the list down to 1400. Another 25% would stay and find work Locally so that knocks it down to around 700 to bump the system and even if everyone of them bumped the bottom guy in DFW has 692 people under him. Nearly all of them would have to bump into LAX, NYC or ORD , NYC would see nearly half their trained experienced line mechanics bumped out at one time by guys who have not been working the line, sure over time they would learn but on the line time is measured in minutes, not years. It would be so disruptive they they would be better off simply keeping them in Tulsa, or adding them to the headcount. 

 

[Bob Owens]

I wouldn't count on dfw either as I hear aa is moving work out of dfw as their production is pretty low, as seen by the 777 going to Mia and 777 a checks being done elsewhere. Dfw has mor 777 flights then any other station, common sense would say that dfw should be 777 central.

DFW has more 737, 757, 767, MD-80 and Airbus flights than any other station as well. So I guess it should be, and is to an extent "maint central for all fleets". The placement of work has nothing to do with production, has more to do with doing the work where it can be done with minimal disruption to scheduling. That means trying to get it done during a period of time where they don't need to fly the plane and have the facilities available to do it. DFW has more than enough work and lets face it Dallas is not a terminus for most travelers but more of a connection point to their final destination. Routing determines where the work goes, not production rates and ideally you want to do the work where you have the greatest amount of ground time between flights.
 
One of the things AA was pushing for was to do Bchecks in Europe where they pay their mechanics $45/hr +  with 12 Holidays (at full Holiday pay if worked, not half pay like us)  5 weeks vacation , plenty of sick time, no employee contribution for healthcare, pensions etc. Yes much, much higher labor costs but flights arrive from the US early morning and leave many hours later.  So the plane just sits there for hours, not making money and not getting any work done either. The cost of our labor is insignificant compared to the gains from efficient use of the aircraft. 

 

[Bob Owens]

Yes.
 
You will be told this is for the benefit of the employee, to keep them from having to relocate several times (no $12,500 FTW).
 
The question is, do you believe that?

The Juniority list was a major concession. In a Union shop if you are Riffed you should go wherever your seniority carries. Adhering to Seniority causes a lot of disruption for the company and extra expense (through multiple moving expenses and additional training) as well and makes them more likely to carry heavy or offer buyouts to avoid RIFs. But in a Union shop you should not have bottom of the industry pay, 2 cent night differentials, 5 holidays at half pay, 5 sick days, 1 week less vacation than everyone else either but is what Tulsa and Title II voted in. So fixing the "Juniority list" is of very low priority at the moment for everyone else in the system. 
 
The Juniority list was put in place to benefit the company, period. Scabs in leadership positions in the Union sold it something else.