TWU - Fear Based Union Leadership and Intimidation

[700UW]

You are truly clueless.

 

[WeAAsles]

You are truly clueless.

I'll second that comment. Tim, lol  jeez louise.

 

[1AA]

You are truly clueless.

Are you sure you did not mean to say "Are you that stupid"?

 

[WeAAsles]

Are you sure you did not mean to say "Are you that stupid"?

I'm sorry but if the guy is talking about Tim Nelson, either word is appropriate. Clueless, stupid or even NUTS just fits. :wacko:

 

[TWU informer]

TWU Informer,
 
You truly dont get it.  Politics effects us all, so you dont want unions in politics, yet companies are, so you want the unions to just sit by and let companies have their way?
 
I sat in the courtroom in between negotiations and saw how the company used the law to screw us.
 
You might not like it, but politics and the laws effect everything we do.
 
You dont want to try and level the playing field?
 
If we had laws like Europe and Canada, companies couldnt hire scabs to replace us when we would go on strike.
 
So screw it, why dont we just go back to master and servant, or better yet just slavery.
 

I think you are the one that doesnt get it.
 
Government in this country has evoloved to be controlled by money, not the people. Therefore it already is master and servant again, and that's why you witness the unequal use of the law.
 
Working class will never win the game of "who has the most money" for influence. And the ballot box is so split up on single issues by design, that we wont ever unite there either.
 
If we had UNIONS like Canada and Europe we would have those laws you desire. They shut the country down when needed, laws or no laws, they show their force.

 

[MetalMover]

I will say this much for 700. Even though he and I have had disagreements in the past, at least he is a union man that supports the causes of working people. So he believes in the IAM. I would definitely take them over the twu in a heartbeat.

And one think I will say for 700, at least he backs up his positions with more facts than OVERSPEED does.

 

[Kev3188]

Working class will never win the game of "who has the most money" for influence.

No we won't. What we can win (if we actually apply ourselves collectively) is the war of information, and the "who has the most numbers" battle. Just to be clear, I don't mean "strength in numbers" as we see it in its current form, but rather a mass of people all mobilized to move in the same positive direction.
 

And the ballot box is so split up on single issues by design, that we wont ever unite there either.

By design is right! And as you & I have discussed on here before, we've let capital atomize all of us into these little groups. That goes past unions themselves and out into US society as a whole.

There's a been a push for organized labor to align more closely with other social justice groups, and other things that have been tagged with the term "alt-labor." IMO, this needs to happen, and where (I think??) you & I respectfully part ways. I don't see a union person as just union while on the clock. The issues facing all of us extend far beyond the airfield. Does labor leadership need an overhaul? No doubt. But at the same time, we need to build coalition with some of these social justice groups, so we can move forward together. We can learn a lot from some of these people/groups. Many of them are delivering tangible results right now- can the  "legacy" unions all say the same?
 

If we had UNIONS like Canada and Europe we would have those laws you desire. They shut the country down when needed, laws or no laws, they show their force.

Amen.

 

[TWU informer]

No we won't. What we can win (if we actually apply ourselves collectively) is the war of information, and the "who has the most numbers" battle. Just to be clear, I don't mean "strength in numbers" as we see it in its current form, but rather a mass of people all mobilized to move in the same positive direction.
 

By design is right! And as you & I have discussed on here before, we've let capital atomize all of us into these little groups. That goes past unions themselves and out into US society as a whole.

There's a been a push for organized labor to align more closely with other social justice groups, and other things that have been tagged with the term "alt-labor." IMO, this needs to happen, and where (I think??) you & I respectfully part ways. I don't see a union person as just union while on the clock. The issues facing all of us extend far beyond the airfield. Does labor leadership need an overhaul? No doubt. But at the same time, we need to build coalition with some of these social justice groups, so we can move forward together. We can learn a lot from some of these people/groups. Many of them are delivering tangible results right now- can the  "legacy" unions all say the same?
 

Amen.

 
I think we agree for the most part. In my opinion, the social issues create division, and that division creates weakness. Nobody is going to be told wrong/right/or indifferent that they have to politically support this or that. Immigration Issues/Sexual Orientation Issues/Tax-Spend-Entitlement Issues/God and Prayer in Schools/ even Abortion Issues, these are all designed to keep us from uniting as a working class and that will not change. For every worker on one side of the issue there is another on oppposite side. That is why I believe the continuation of political arena involvement is weakening the labor groups and all other groups that try to push their middle class agendas. The only answer I see is the answer that is written in the history books. Once civil unrest or even revolutions begin that threaten the rich and powerful, only then do laws change to favor those causing the distress get changed. Playing their game of money buys access while being divided into groups supporting different single issues is getting nothing but lip service. Organized labor has the numbers, and the workers are hungry, tired of defeat, and ready. The problem is that there isn't one single leader that isn't just as comfortable as the rich in his living style, and none of them have the mentality that risking their own welfare for the good of all so that they might be written in the history books is the what a real leader should do. NO....They are all wannabes with no balls and no brains, and they don't even believe we would all show up to follow if they did try to lead. The weak leader keeps advocating the same failing ideas because he isnt suffering from his/her own failures like the membership is.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I think you are the one that doesnt get it.
 
Government in this country has evoloved to be controlled by money, not the people. Therefore it already is master and servant again, and that's why you witness the unequal use of the law.
 
Working class will never win the game of "who has the most money" for influence. And the ballot box is so split up on single issues by design, that we wont ever unite there either.
 
If we had UNIONS like Canada and Europe we would have those laws you desire. They shut the country down when needed, laws or no laws, they show their force.

You are wasting your breath explaining that to a socialist.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

I just have to post this on here as it is so fitting of the topic!



Shop Steward Training: The TWU-IAM Association Agreement

The July Steward Training covered the upcoming Association Agreement that our membership will soon be voting on. We began the training by going over the Trumka letter that aired his concern of a costly labor battle amongst AFLCIO Unions while not adding a single new member to organized labor. Trumka encouraged the TWU and IAM to work out a case of dual representation. This is where the Association Agreement came from.

The Agreement Regarding Seniority Integration states, your seniority will be based on the date of each employee’s entry into the basic classification, as set forth in the existing Collective Bargaining Agreements and the Current Seniority Lists maintained by American and USAir for each group. Once the Seniority List integration process is completed, The TWU and IAM will form a committee to address and resolve any individual challenges, which must be raised by submitting a letter identifying the alleged problem to the committee within 30 days after the integrated seniority list is published.

The TWU and IAM jointly agreed for the formation of Association Agreements of the three joint labor organizations representing the Craft and Classes of, Maintenance and Related, Material Logistics Specs, and Fleet Service Clerks. The membership will vote on whether to accept these Association Agreements. Once the Associations are accepted a ratio of current TWU and IAM members will determine the ratio of TWU and IAM members that will be maintained going forward. Your station location will determine if you are TWU or IAM. There will be some shuffling of our current stations to maintain the ratio resulting in current members changing unions.

The Association is a small organization that would own the Bargaining Agreement with American. The Association will be located in Washington DC and will hold no assets. The cost will be covered jointly by the TWU and IAM. A Chairman and Vice Chairman will preside over the Association they will be the International Presidents or their appointee. The Officers in the Association will come from the ranks of the TWU and IAM and meet a minimum of 4 times a year. Negotiations will be handled by committee formed from an equal number of representatives from the IAM and TWU. The first order of business for this committee will be to harmonize the two current agreements between the TWU and IAM into a single agreement.

We also have a joint agreement on Pensions. The IAM has a National Pension Fund (IAMNPF). The IAM and TWU will propose to allow current TWU members into the IAMNPF. They further agree to make this a high priority when we harmonize our current agreements.

Some very important steps in our near future will be the vote on the Association and then the Harmonizing of the two CBA’s. The Association vote will be the same as any representation vote if the Association isn’t voted in we would lose our current CBA. With no CBA we become “At Will Employees”. That means you can be fired for no reason. You lose all the negotiated rights of pay, seniority, transfers, and riff procedures, just to name a few.

 

[toroshark]

WE the TWU dont care what YOU the membership want. YOU will do exactly what WE want or WE will leave YOU with no representation. When WE abandon YOU then AA can do with YOU whatever they want. WE dont care if YOU would prefer either the TWU or the IAM. YOU will do what WE want or else. This is not a democratic organization! This is corporate unionism in its most blatant form! Let the dues flow!           This is the translation of the message TWU and IAM are sending their members that they are supposed to represent. And there is no spin that anyone can put on it to refute that without lying through their teeth.

 

[MetalMover]

The twu is already telling Tulsa to get ready for a cost neutral contract. If the US Air guys thought they were going to get a better deal in the next round of negotiations think again. The only synergy moving forward will be rearranging the deck but no new cards being shuffled in, so get ready,,,,,    your about to get twscrewed!  Look for Tulsa to be used one last time to get a feartract signed.

Wow a cost neutral contract even AFTER giving everyone industry leading wages? My oh my...how can this be achieved??  
SOMETHING will have to be given up to attain those wages.

 

[CMH_GSE]

Wow a cost neutral contract even AFTER giving everyone industry leading wages? My oh my...how can this be achieved??  
SOMETHING will have to be given up to attain those wages.

I disagree with you here Metal.
The price of oil on July 25th was $102 per barrel.
Today it closed at $53 and its dropping further.
The dynamics today don't support a cost neutral contract even if Elmer Fudd is negotiating for us, still, we want the best situation we can get.

 

[scorpion 2]

 
Wow a cost neutral contract even AFTER giving everyone industry leading wages? My oh my...how can this be achieved??  
SOMETHING will have to be given up to attain those wages.

Like NYer pointed out a few days back we financed our own 3% reduction in concessions from 20% to !7% by giving up 10% of our profit sharing in 2012. A lot of good the me-too provision did us. Oh and we got me-too equity as part of our 4.8% equity allocation. The strange thing is the 4.8% never went up from day one but 8 months later when the road shows started we had me-too equity and the total equity was still 4.8%. How does that work. Try getting an answer from the international watch them dance and stutter trying to come up with a spin. Tulsa amt's take it in the shorts too the only thing that favors them is housing costs are cheaper here. When it gets right down to it everyone has a better deal than the east coast amt's but we all lose when it comes to benefits. Yes the E board has been saying from day one (1) that it would be a cost neutral contract. I hope the IAM is reading this so they can enjoy their missed opportunity they had in section 6 negotiations. The twu used them boys like rag after sex with this alliance crap. It was nothing but a ploy to keep from having a representation election which the twu knew they would lose.   I agree the dynamic has changed with oil prices so even the twu will have trouble convincing Parker to give us a cost neutral deal!!!!!

 

[MetalMover]

I disagree with you here Metal.
The price of oil on July 25th was $102 per barrel.
Today it closed at $53 and its dropping further.
The dynamics today don't support a cost neutral contract even if Elmer Fudd is negotiating for us, still, we want the best situation we can get.

Dynamics may not support a cost neutral contract. But the TWU will be willing to buy into it as always.