mrfish3726
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- Jul 7, 2004
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Ual Well Positioned For Future
- Thread starter 767jetz
- Start date
mrfish3726 said:FWAA,
You hit a nerve there LOL!
[post="284258"][/post]
Posting facts often draws this sort of reaction from UnitedChicago. Has a difficult time dealing with unfortunate economic reality.
FWAAA said:
Posting facts often draws this sort of reaction from UnitedChicago. Has a difficult time dealing with unfortunate economic reality.
[post="284259"][/post]
If that's what ya think then you haven't followed my few posts in the last year or two. In fact, I've been a critic of UA management of late - going as far as calling for new management. I still support that stand.
I'm a big believer in facts and a lot are unfortunate for this whole industry - something we can agree with.
My blah blah blah post was because you people get into the same boring, mindless back and forth every single time. Every single time.
Why do I bother to read this forum and occasionally post? Beats me - perhaps I should delete the bookmark.
P.S. I had tuna for dinner - I love eating fish.
P.S.S. To all UA employees - I've been flying a ton lately and service has been fantastic. Especially from FA's - no CHAOS in sight.
FWAAA has no forward thinking except the elimination of United. Guess she can't see that if United leaves the picture MORE LCC's invade the space.
I cannot imagine any Legacy carriers are "well positioned" in the aviation industry at this time. "Well positioned" is some sort of delusion.
whatkindoffreshhell
Veteran
Never did I (or others, including UA employees) imagine that UA would be stuck in BK for so long. Not good, not good at all.
Twist the numbers all you like, remind us of your superb franchise and route network, argue with the little people at marginal airlines.....
But please get out of purgatory already and start heaving that great UA ship forward into new glory!
Twist the numbers all you like, remind us of your superb franchise and route network, argue with the little people at marginal airlines.....
But please get out of purgatory already and start heaving that great UA ship forward into new glory!
Fly said:
Fly: When someone posts nonsense on this forum, I'm there to post facts, regardless of the airline involved.
767jetz posts nonsense like "UAL will have $2 Billion of debt and AA will have $20 Billion" and I'm gonna post facts to refute such nonsense.
Nobody knows just how much debt UAL is gonna have when (and if) it emerges from Ch 11, but it is very likely that its debt level (as a percentage of revenue) will be at least as high as that of AMR.
spacewaitress said:
Exactly. If Ch 11 actually enabled airlines to wipe out 90% of their debt, they would file every few years to wipe out the debts arising from new airplane purchases. But 767jetz' assertion is pure fantasy.
At 12/31/04, UAL had $7.2 Billion of long-term debt plus $16.2 billion of future lease obligations. On top of the DIP financing that will be converted somehow into exit financing. Some of that debt and lease obligations may be reduced in Ch 11, but it won't all go away. Thinking it will is simply incorrect.
OP
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
- Thread Starter
- #26
FWAAA said:
OK, my numbers were very general, but I'm just trying to get in the ballpark to make a point that is factual. That point is that AA will have MUCH more debt to service than UAL once UAL emerges from BK. That's the whole point of BK.
Don't get me wrong. BK has many draw backs attached to it. Just ask anyone who ever filed for personal BK.
But much like CAL who restructured twice through the courts, for many years after they enjoyed a CASM advantage due to lower labor AND lower debt to service. Hence they have been in a better position to weather the storm of the last 5 years.
And by the way FWAA, you are wrong to think that no one knows how much debt UAL is going to have post BK. I assure you that management, JP Morgan, and Citigroup do indeed know.
Just look at NWA today, with their strongest BK warning to date. A year ago many were saying that they were one of the strongest legacies out there. Guess what? They are now facing the reality of a liquidity problem because they have LARGE debt coming due that needs to be rolled over, and nobody willing to put up the money. This is EXACTLY what pushed UAL over the edge. And DAL is next in line. This is not a problem unique to UAL. We were just the first, (actually the second. Ref. USAir) and many other companies were banking on our failure and some relief on fuel prices which didn't occur.
For the record, I hope AA continues outside of BK. Both because I have friends who work their (would hate to see them give up what our employees had to give up), and because I believe UA will have a CASM advantage over AA if they don't restructure in court. Let's be clear on this... It is best for UA if nobody else goes through BK.
But to think that UA is going to whither on the vine is "pie in the sky" "wishful thinking" and "non-sense" on the part of our competition.
mrfish3726
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- Jul 7, 2004
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767jetz says,"But much like CAL who restructured twice through the courts, for many years after they enjoyed a CASM advantage due to lower labor AND lower debt to service. Hence they have been in a better position to weather the storm of the last 5 years."
The one thing that brought Continental back as one of the worlds best airlines after the second BK, was ALL the UPPER MANAGEMENT was REPLACED! Tilton should have done that when he first arrived at UniTED. He should have fired a whole lot of management at UniTED and started over with a NEW team in place. If he'd done that UniTED probably would have been out of BK along time ago, and even most likely would have gotten the ATSB loan. Current management has no vision to change the way UniTED conducts business PERIOD! They stole 5.5 billion from you with ESOP and now they are stealing even more with your concessions and the COMPLETE loss of your DP! I know one thing, I wouldn't want to work for the thieves! When UniTED does emerge from BK current management will be laughing at all of you, ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK!
The one thing that brought Continental back as one of the worlds best airlines after the second BK, was ALL the UPPER MANAGEMENT was REPLACED! Tilton should have done that when he first arrived at UniTED. He should have fired a whole lot of management at UniTED and started over with a NEW team in place. If he'd done that UniTED probably would have been out of BK along time ago, and even most likely would have gotten the ATSB loan. Current management has no vision to change the way UniTED conducts business PERIOD! They stole 5.5 billion from you with ESOP and now they are stealing even more with your concessions and the COMPLETE loss of your DP! I know one thing, I wouldn't want to work for the thieves! When UniTED does emerge from BK current management will be laughing at all of you, ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK!
UC,
I don't think you got enough Blah Blah's in there Bud
Add some more so we get the point. Or maybe you should spend some time reading the 10k to get a real insite.
I don't think you got enough Blah Blah's in there Bud
Add some more so we get the point. Or maybe you should spend some time reading the 10k to get a real insite.Borescope said:UC,
I don't think you got enough Blah Blah's in there Bud
[post="284356"][/post]
I think you may be right
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