Same for me, i'm a early retire and former AFA member and i support ur effort and stand in solidarity. Good luck and thanks for FINALLY standing up to mgmt!!! PeaceUmmm, Don't Look Now
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Same for me, i'm a early retire and former AFA member and i support ur effort and stand in solidarity. Good luck and thanks for FINALLY standing up to mgmt!!! Peace
Don Smith
Veteran
My first thought is I liked the Felix the Cat Avatar.
Second. Yea...go ahead with with CHAOS but set the 15 days for the strike. Ticket sales will fall and someone upstairs will WAKE UP! Thanks Jenny for posting the Skinny Prick's letter. "Thanks for your professionalism". In other words..."don't you dare create CHAOS". What does he have to do??? Double dare you?
JAMAKE1
Veteran
Ahhh...Good morning everyone. 
So refreshing to talk about something else rather than WT's delusions of grandeur of Delta conquering the world.
Have a great day...
So refreshing to talk about something else rather than WT's delusions of grandeur of Delta conquering the world.Have a great day...
Don Smith
Veteran
What is clear is that the F/A group is also rebelling against union leadership. The PFAA and now the AFA. The AFA is as you say AFL/CIO. The AFL/CIO is a lapdog waiting for commands from the corporate masters to "roll over". Why do you think the second T/A came out so quickly. And the whole "we did our best" in negotiations diatribe is a typical AFL/CIO tactic. The IAM has been doing the same thing for years. Always "recommending" accepting any agreements because if not it would ruin the company
. I was fooled one by the IAM, never again. You F/As are now drawing the line. Define the line with concrete demands and DON'T WAIVER! Oh and BTW, the nwa F/A group has the AFA operating in the red now as far as dues collection goes. They need you to accept the terms and not strike so the dues can come rolling in. Another AFL/CIO need is money, and lots of it.Ahhh...Good morning everyone.
Have a great day...
I was over at the Delta threads awhile ago and read some of the WT comments. After I woke up with my head resting on the keyboard I realized the guy just put me to sleep
Welcome back and good morning JAMAKE1scab infestation seems a little down on this site, soon as I feel the festering, felix will be back...
Do you think Dougie boy mentioned the management pay cuts enough in this letter? Come on Dougie you guys can afford way more pay cuts then that !!!! management =
h34r:In explaining "Why CHAOS and not a traditional strike?", the AFA website says:
"CHAOS also protects against the use of replacement Flight Attendants. For example, roving one-day strikes at one domicile at a time would foul up the whole system, but going back after a day would guard against the deployment of replacements. By selectively striking only on layovers, at certain cities or on certain days when staffing is at a minimum and there is a lack of available Flight Attendants, even a single striking crewmember could shut down a flight. Targeted strikes against specific types of aircraft or specific routes on a given day make it very difficult for the company to plan its schedule and react to CHAOS actions."
My question: If it's legal for the FA's to strike, then isn't it also legal for the company to lock-out? If it's legal for the company to lock-out, is it legal for the company to only lock-out those FA's that create CHAOS? In other words, if NW has an unknown number of trained SCAB FA's waiting, can't they just replace those FA's creating CHAOS. Sure management won't be able to do anything the day of an incident, but surely they could have those FA's replaced the very next day.
"CHAOS also protects against the use of replacement Flight Attendants. For example, roving one-day strikes at one domicile at a time would foul up the whole system, but going back after a day would guard against the deployment of replacements. By selectively striking only on layovers, at certain cities or on certain days when staffing is at a minimum and there is a lack of available Flight Attendants, even a single striking crewmember could shut down a flight. Targeted strikes against specific types of aircraft or specific routes on a given day make it very difficult for the company to plan its schedule and react to CHAOS actions."
My question: If it's legal for the FA's to strike, then isn't it also legal for the company to lock-out? If it's legal for the company to lock-out, is it legal for the company to only lock-out those FA's that create CHAOS? In other words, if NW has an unknown number of trained SCAB FA's waiting, can't they just replace those FA's creating CHAOS. Sure management won't be able to do anything the day of an incident, but surely they could have those FA's replaced the very next day.
JAMAKE1
Veteran
One of the few remaining benefits of union membership is that you can't be fired for missing one trip--particularly if you called in sick. And, you know how easy it is to get sick on a layover--all those Florida germs that a Texas or California or Minnesota f/a is not normally exposed to, don't you know.
And, with the bureaucratic process that the company has to go through in order to terminate someone, the strike would be over and/or the company out of business before the employee actually reached the termination point. Nor, can the company replace that person with a scab if NW has any f/as on furlough. They would have to be recalled before new hiring could take place. Remember, it's not the union or the whole f/a corps that would be striking so lockout does not apply. Just an individual f/a who would have to be brought up on some kind of charge like restriction of output or excessive missed trips, etc. One trip won't do it. AFAIK about the only thing that could get you removed immediately would be something like under the influence of alcohol or drugs, possession of illegal drugs, theft of company property. Even then the whole termination process would have to be gone through, and if the company lost in arbitration, they would have to pay back wages and benefits, etc. It would hardly be worth it.
I don't think that just because the bk judge allows the company to impose non-cntractual pay rates and work rules means that the other provisions of the contract are also null and void, but then I ain't a lawyer (thank heaven).
BTW, with all the "cute" responses, CHAOS means Creating Havoc Around Our System.
Yes. This is pretty much what happened at U once during the Wolf era when AFA threatened CHAOS. Wolf said he would not even try to operate the airline under the threat of CHAOS strikes, and simply said the airline would shut down completely on the date AFA threatened CHAOS could start. They reached an agreement before that date, though, so no one knows how such a scenario would actually have played out.
Again, yes. That is what Alaska did. Those F/As that CHAOS'd the three flights (or whatever number it was -- a very small one, in any case) were immediately "replaced." They all eventually got their jobs back though since in that case the court determined they were engaged in a legal job action.
Jim, I don't think you are correct. A F/A involved in a CHAOS action would not be in the disciplinary process as with a normal termination. Management is legally free to replace strikers with replacements, immediately. Someone on a CHAOS action would be subject to immediate replacement. This is how it played out at Alaska.
Of course the corollary is they also have rights to come back to work as openings become available (assuming the court finds CHAOS to be legal).
The problem is that flight attendants are easily replaced. You can bet that Northwest has trained and will continue to train replacements since AFA will not do any job action for 15 days. I think the NW stews are screwed if they continue this. And what NW management gets, AFA will agree to because it is all about dues. :down:
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
What you may fail to realize is that having/and or training replacements does nothing to help if you don't know where or when you may need them. The schedule WILLbe impacted.
Remember, not too long ago the NWA mechanics had the same philosophy...STRIKE, we will shut down NWA! Also, consider that it is much more difficult to replace a licensed mechanic than a F/A. Sure, the F/A's claim that the group is too large to replaced. However, I guarantee that NWA has got thousands of F/A's fresh out of high school waiting to take the job and work for almost nothing. It is no longer a career folks, it's now a transitional job and will be for all airlines.
The fact is - NWA will play hard ball. F/A's will be replaced with a combination of foreign F/A's on ALL Int'l routes and local talent on domestic routes.
Hint - I am sure they have already trained on every NW aircraft model. Either parked in AZ and/or procedural training equipment at some empty warehouse in BFE.
How long would it really take to train a new F/A with absolutely no experience, perhaps 2 weeks???
Could someone in training please explain just how fast an airline could train F/A's in an EMERGENCY situation...
