US Pilot Labor Thread

[machtuck]

> Readers will make their
> own decisions. Regarding Wye River, our own MEC was split.
> CJ Szmal and Mike
> Bendett were committed to no compromise. John McIlvenna and
> Mitch Vasin began to
> see the light that without a compromise, ALPA was going to
> lose and along with
> them, the NIC might also go.
>
> CJ Szmal always
> professed to be that “ALPA Guy,â€￾ hard-core ALPA
> supporter. But when it came to
> Wye River, he rejected the ALPA advice and took Mike
> Bendett along with him on
> the ride. It’s easy to connect the dots: no Wye River
> “mutual solutionâ€￾ meant no
> Length of Service (LOS) list, no cram-down single contract,
> no more ALPA on
> property and no 400 pilots below Dave O’Dell before the
> furloughs. So, CJ and
> Mike Bendett, elected Reps who had the clout and the votes,
> stood tall in the
> saddle. No “mutual solutionâ€￾ at Wye River. Congratulate
> them when you see them.
> Especially all of you who face a long-term furlough.

How do you explain this from several sources, and published by one of the west?
Looks like the fact is, at the River...west missed

 

[ussnark]

What I am having trouble with is the idea that I'd be sending money to an entity that will not keep my interests and that of my family at heart. I know they will do as the majority directs but still... I guess someone is gonna have to make a move eventually. As for me I am hoping to find a gig somewhere else.

USAPA's and your best interests are the same.

<speculation>

Were the "nic" to remain, ten or fifteen years from now some two year startup will merge with US/whatever and your fourteen years would likely be slotted behind some two year pilot.

With USAPA, your DOH/LOS will keep you intact, during a time when the alternative job market gets worse and worse as you age. Aside from the ups and downs of the airline business, you will, at least, have increased security that you won't be bumped out of your seat/job.

</speculation>

USAPA has your long term interests at heart. On the other hand, the "nic" will guarantee one crisis after another.

 

[nostradamus]

Despite all the rhetoric, and I am not instigating an argument, I do believe that the Nicolau decision will stand. Parker won't overturn it and the courts will uphold it.

Parker informed you in the last meeting, the seniority is part of the contract negotiations. Parker probably has at least one attorney on retainer. ( toungue in cheek) When he asked if furloughs of the present pilots in the west can sue the company in the future, he had to be told no.

 

[electricjet98]

How do you explain this from several sources, and published by one of the west?
Looks like the fact is, at the River...west missed

Not having been there myself, I can only speculate. Having already received an arbitration award that the west pilots considered to be basically fair, it would have been a huge "give-away" to agree to LOS w/fences or any other possible commitment, in exchange for the east's promise that our "deal" wouldn't be revisted in the event that a new joint contract wasn't accepted. We had already seen the east's sense of honor and integrity, and by making that compromise it would have been demonstrated that "final & binding" was negotiable.

Question to you machtuck: If USAPA fails to offer a compromise on their DOH mantra prior to a judicial award for the Nic, will you be saying...east missed?

 

[nostradamus]

Below is one of the factions of america west pilots that are calling the shots.


Army of Leonidas

October 03 2007

Leonidas was the Spartan king who led his personal guard of 300 men, along with several hundred Greek volunteers, against an onslaught of hundreds of thousands of Persians in the Battle of Thermopylae in 480 B.C. When the Persian King Xerxes demand that the Army of Leonidas surrender their weapons prior to battle, Leonidas’ reply was, “Come and take them!â€￾

No doubt the pilots of America West feel much the same as did the Army of Leonidas as they faced nearly impossible odds. In fact, if you choose to support this endeavor, you will become part of the Army of Leonidas.

Leonidas LLC is a voluntary membership, Arizona based, Limited Liability Corporation. The purpose of Leonidas LLC is to fund legal protection for the pilots of America West Airlines, and to provide for outside, third- party legal oversight of all entities involved in our merger with US Airways.

We must assert our legal rights, seek remedies if necessary, and be ready for any possible contingency, independent of ALPA, during the merger of America West and US Airways.

Membership is strictly limited to the pilots of the former America West Airlines.

 

[electricjet98]

Parker informed you in the last meeting, the seniority is part of the contract negotiations.

How are negotiations going?

 

[nostradamus]

We had already seen the east's sense of honor and integrity, and by making that compromise it would have been demonstrated that "final & binding" was negotiable.

america west pilots honor and integrity history.

"I found the America West Airline drug trafficking trial fascinating. Patrick Thurston, Vice President of Operations, America West, Bob Russell, Chief of Pilots, and Carl Wobser, a captain, all pleaded guilty to multiple counts of narcotics trafficking. They had purchased a DC 6 and embarked upon a career in the drug trade. Unfortunately for them their plane, which they maxed out electronically, had chronic engine problems which required them to touch down unexpectedly in several countries. This was more than embarrassing, since they had not filed flight plans.

On one such emergency stop in Aruba, on the way back from Columbia, their plane was found packed with marijuana. There is reason to believe that their intended cargo was cocaine and that after a mix-up they did not wish to fly back empty. Despite the lofty positions these men held with America West, they seemed to have no difficulty getting time off for their drug flights, and America West wanted to rehire Russell after his six months in the Federal country club at Safford."

 

[electricjet98]

Unfortunately, the two sides will never come together (I have friends at NWA/Republic). This place will be an unhappy, bitter workplace for the rest of my 14 years left here and beyond unless we merge with a larger entity which may result in diluting the bitterness of this "merger".

Don't tell me that...EastUS is almost ready to buy me a beer!

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Question to you machtuck: If USAPA fails to offer a compromise on their DOH mantra prior to a judicial award for the Nic, will you be saying...east missed?

An oft overlooked fact is that the MDA pilots will have their day in court long before any DFR suit from the Army of Leonidas is heard and the NIC bargaining position will be a never was.

USAPA can't ignore those pilots any more than ALPA did or they will be subject to lawsuit as well. They were active pilots employed by US Airways, flying aircraft operated under its operating certificate.

 

[nostradamus]

How are negotiations going?

Good. I was just talking to a few folks that dabble in the legal profession and journalism. I was just showing them some "integrity" facts about the america west pilots. Funny you should ask.

Mr Smith goes to D.C. See you in a couple weeks.

 

[electricjet98]

america west pilots honor and integrity history.

"I found the America West Airline drug trafficking trial fascinating. Patrick Thurston, Vice President of Operations, America West, Bob Russell, Chief of Pilots, and Carl Wobser, a captain, all pleaded guilty to multiple counts of narcotics trafficking. They had purchased a DC 6 and embarked upon a career in the drug trade. Unfortunately for them their plane, which they maxed out electronically, had chronic engine problems which required them to touch down unexpectedly in several countries. This was more than embarrassing, since they had not filed flight plans.

On one such emergency stop in Aruba, on the way back from Columbia, their plane was found packed with marijuana. There is reason to believe that their intended cargo was cocaine and that after a mix-up they did not wish to fly back empty. Despite the lofty positions these men held with America West, they seemed to have no difficulty getting time off for their drug flights, and America West wanted to rehire Russell after his six months in the Federal country club at Safford."

Well, I'm glad these folks weren't elected by our group as their leaders with the authority to enter into agreements with others!

 

[700UW]

Nos,

I dont know why you continue to post some pilots trafficed drugs, it doesnt make all of them crooks.

Just like the EA pilot that killed his wife and put her body in a woodchipper?

Does that make them all murderers?

Just like the US/East Pilots scabbed against the IAM in 1992 and performed struck work and made a sweetheart deal with the company to cross the picketlines and pay all the pilots for their trips regardless of they flew or not.

And the company grounded all the DC-9s, MD80s, F28s, F100s and the 737-200s yet those pilots got paid when the company didnt have to pay them.

You know what they say about living in a glass house, dont you?

And I bet if you checked every east pilots record you would find some that committed crimes.

What is worse, an MEC and Bill Pollack who gave away your pension without a vote or someone trafficing drugs?

By the way my EX's brother father in law is a pilot and he lost a $2 million annunity cause of the termination, I would say that is more criminal than a few former HP pilots trafficing drugs.

 

[ussnark]

They were active pilots employed by US Airways, flying aircraft operated under its operating certificate.

Undeniably.

Instead of capping pay, ALPA increased the cap, ensuring more pilots than normal (even by west standards) would be furloughed.

Another reason I voted for USAPA.

I presume AWAPPA is providing medical for the west furloughees?

 

[nostradamus]

Nos,

I dont know why you continue to post some pilots trafficed drugs, it doesnt make all of them crooks.

Just like the EA pilot that killed his wife and put her body in a woodchipper?

Does that make them all murderers?

Just like the US/East Pilots scabbed against the IAM in 1992 and performed struck work and made a sweetheart deal with the company to cross the picketlines and pay all the pilots for their trips regardless of they flew or not.

And the company grounded all the DC-9s, MD80s, F28s, F100s and the 737-200s yet those pilots got paid when the company didnt have to pay them.

You know what they say about living in a glass house, dont you?

And I bet if you checked every east pilots record you would find some that committed crimes.

What is worse, an MEC and Bill Pollack who gave away your pension without a vote or someone trafficing drugs?

By the way my EX's brother father in law is a pilot and he lost a $2 million annunity cause of the termination, I would say that is more criminal than a few former HP pilots trafficing drugs.

Your IAM group defecated in passenger bags during the 1992 strike. So a nice old lady was traveling to see her grand children and one of your low fiber diet thugs put a roaster in her bag.

Yes sir you and your group are the authority in integrity.

 

[700UW]

No they did not, when we were on strike we werent out on the ramp, we didnt go to work.

So try again.

And M&R dont handle bags.

And I see you dodged answering the question once again.