US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/2- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[oldiebutgoody]

WOW.....but...NO....you're not correct.........

Do us all a favor and call Al Hemenway vp labor relations lcc and ask him what list the company has accepted and will use going forward. The 9th ruling on ripeness does not change this. I have his number if interested. It's really that simple.

Wanna bet?

You call him. Do it tomorrow. Then, when you stop crying come back here and post what he said.

We can start calling your posts: "As The Head Turns".

 

[OTTER574]

Who would that be? If you're talking about me, you'd be WRONG. I've never been an officer in ANY union. USAPA officers are NOT ALLOWED to participate in these sort of discussions.

The rest of your diatribe is plain STUPID and doesn't even deserve a response. If what you are saying is true about section 22, then why are you guys still paying lawyers? Oh, I get it. You're not paying 'em!

Its quite clear if people don't agree with you or usapa then you call them and I quote "STUPID" Keep up the NONE ANSWERS because I wouldn't want some to think you're are sleeping at the union wheel.

Section 22 is done and please call Al Hemenway vp labor relations lcc to confirm...I've his number is you need it.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Its quite clear if people don't agree with you or usapa then you call them and I quote "STUPID" Keep up the NONE ANSWERS because I wouldn't want some to think you're are sleeping at the union wheel.

Section 22 is done and please call Al Hemenway vp labor relations lcc to confirm...I've his number is you need it.

I never called anybody "stupid", but some of their posts are. By the way, you're totally wrong.

 

[AWE Dog]

Unobtainiun badge backer anybody?

 

[OTTER574]

Wanna bet?

You call him. Do it tomorrow. Then, when you stop crying come back here and post what he said.

We can start calling your posts: "As The Head Turns".

Yes btw, I do wanna bet. I've already done it and the companies answer was clear, pure and precise....................the question is HAVE YOU asked??....you being the so called nic/union/usapa expert.

 

[cleardirect]

"The Ninth Circuit’s reasoning is wholly consistent with the Seventh Circuit’s holding in Rakestraw that:

“If the union’s leaders took account of the fact that the workers at the larger firm preferred this outcome, so what? Majority rule is the norm.”

USAPA will proceed with negotiations with the objective of finally breaking through the ALPA-created impasse and achieving a CBA that benefits the entire pilot group. USAPA’s ongoing DFR obligation in this context is to avoid negotiating a final agreement which is “wholly irrational or arbitrary.” Pursuing a ratifiable CBA that protects all pilots in their current positions and enhances wages and working conditions for the entire pilot group can hardly be said to be “wholly irrational or arbitrary.”

If the majority of MIGS determine that the negotiated CBA is acceptable, it will pass ratification. If some deem they were not fairly represented, they will have to prove that the actions of the union were wholly irrational or arbitrary or fall outside the wide range or reasonableness.

I do agree, one group (majority OR minority) should not be allowed to steal from the other. Both side should be allowed to maintain what they brought to the table. DOH with conditions and restrictions will allow just that. We can now move forward toward a fair and equitable contract for all pilots.

Would you please point to ANY merger policy anywhere that says both sides should just keep what they brought. That maintaining the status quo is fair. What do you do about going forward?

You guys brought a bunch of debt and 1700 furloughs. Keep them. Shrinking fleet, yours. Money losing hub, all yours.

You guys are so shortsighted it is funny.

Airlines do not merge so the pilots can keep what they brought.

 

[AWE Dog]

Yes btw, I do wanna bet. I've already done it and the companies answer was clear, pure and precise....................the question is HAVE YOU asked??....you being the so called nic/union/usapa expert.

OHH, This might seem like a dumb question, but have you called since friday? It might make a difference.

 

[OTTER574]

OHH, This might seem like a dumb question, but have you called since friday? It might make a difference.

The NIC was never on trial and never will be. A dfr against usapa was and ripeness was the issue.

Dumb question and dumb answer is that friday from the 9th doesn't change anything in regard to the NIC.

Please call the vp of labor at lcc to confirm. I have and it's clear as cleary....lcc accepted the NIC and will use it going forward with a joint contract or else lcc will be sued along with any cba/usapa that attempts to weasel out of final and binding arbitration.

 

[nic4us]

"The Ninth Circuit’s reasoning is wholly consistent with the Seventh Circuit’s holding in Rakestraw that:

“If the union’s leaders took account of the fact that the workers at the larger firm preferred this outcome, so what? Majority rule is the norm.”

USAPA will proceed with negotiations with the objective of finally breaking through the ALPA-created impasse and achieving a CBA that benefits the entire pilot group. USAPA’s ongoing DFR obligation in this context is to avoid negotiating a final agreement which is “wholly irrational or arbitrary.” Pursuing a ratifiable CBA that protects all pilots in their current positions and enhances wages and working conditions for the entire pilot group can hardly be said to be “wholly irrational or arbitrary.”

If the majority of MIGS determine that the negotiated CBA is acceptable, it will pass ratification. If some deem they were not fairly represented, they will have to prove that the actions of the union were wholly irrational or arbitrary or fall outside the wide range or reasonableness.

I do agree, one group (majority OR minority) should not be allowed to steal from the other. Both side should be allowed to maintain what they brought to the table. DOH with conditions and restrictions will allow just that. We can now move forward toward a fair and equitable contract for all pilots.

You guys are confusing case law that says why an arbitration can be overturned, with a unions DFR standards, mixing the two and coming up with a fabrication of support for your position.

I am with Otter on this one. Go ahead, bring it up at the next negotiation session, and please let us all know the company's response.

 

[767jetz]

Why is it that you guys are obsessed with ALPA? Really obsessed. I am a line pilot at Delta, I fly 767's, just got back from Milan Sunday (nice clothes, the calzone was just OK). My next trip is in a week it's a domestic 3 day with a double SEA layover. If you get an opinion that contradicts your wacky theories on life, then you try to attack the individual. I am sure that this is not what National ALPA thinks, but I hope beyond hope that you guys do not come back to ALPA. I know that is your wish too. When you were in ALPA, you spent like drunken sailors (apparently still spending like drunken sailors), and your union now is creating a giant liability by messing with an established seniority list. I personally don't want to have to pay for your lunacy. So please, do not come back to ALPA, let your own pilots pay for your fool's quest. I don't know how to be any clearer than that.

So no matter how many times you try to make up things about me or the other people on this board, they are not true. I have no position at ALPA and don't want one. You guys seem almost permanently detached from reality, so I am sure you will just make up a new story that has no bearing on the facts. Oh well.

+1!

 

[nycbusdriver]

Pleaseeeeeeeeee, by all means present the mowrey doh c n r's list to the company again so we can all move forward in a federal court of law.

I agree totally.

Get your wallets ready.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I'm not saying the company has to issue a "statement of position" or the like I'm just curious on why they are ignoring the complete issue. I mean it's in most of the newspapers, they could highlight some links and tell the reader if they're interested read them, no commentary needed. The FA's are waiting on this also, so it has company wide interest.

What could the company say?

They can't truthfully even use the typical corporate boilerplate about "...we can now move on to productive contract negotiations blah, blah, blah,,," when they have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the table.

 

[Black Swan]

The west is not going to pay for your career or lack there of from the former usair.

How many airplanes did usair have 10 years ago? 400+ How many do they have today? 250 + or -

Pit, bwi, metrojet and the likes ARE GONE and most of those airframes are parked in the desert.

The final and binding lcc list is done and accepted by the company and cannot be changed. Sorry, but no redo and no 9th savior from seham and his clowns.

Your flailing at the wind means nothing. Any reference to the Nic, is a reference to nothing anymore, validated by the 9th. Your regurgitation of USAir past means only as much as the past at AWA. You pick points in time that are also available to the East, at another point in time. ROA CLT has a better understanding of RLA and labor law than any of your lawyers, including Jacobs. Read Baptiste and Wilder. This is what you are facing. Good Luck. PS Addington was a spectacular gift to USAPA. Paid for by Leonidas. The information that came out of the 9th is priceless. Not only did it destroy Wake, it devastated the Nic. as a point of argument going forward. Huge tactical error. Wake led you to the gates of Hell. The 9th actually took you in.

 

[john john]

Oldie,


Have to work weekends sometimes, but pretty much get what I want from PBS.

Second, we never had a retirement plan, that is true, but for only our second contract ever, and negotiated under the NTSB loan covenents, we have some niceties. You should remember that 15 years prior to the merger, AWA was not even considered a Major Airline. Our peers and payscales were judged against the likes of ATA and Sun Country, Value Jet and others. Not UAL,NW,DL. So when you and other east posters comment and compare us to what you had 15 years ago, it really is immaterial.

My GOD I think you got it

 

[Black Swan]

+1!

Two posters from UAL and DAL. Look at the profiles. Both post the most in this forum, rather than their own airlines. You figure it out,,,,,,,, -3