US Pilots labor thread 4/17-

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Yes, a west pilot was recently arrested over an assault involving his mistress' ex-husband.

It makes absolutely no difference to the operation of the airline or our collective issues, that is why it is best to just drop the tit-for-tat arguements about who flew down under and who crossed the Continental strike, or who shot an airplane, etc,etc etc.

However, since this board is read by the general public, post that take isolated instances and try to paint a broader stroke, will be answered. For example, calling into question the entire West's moral character because one west pilot assaulted a soccer coach, makes about as much sense as trying to characterize the east group as a bunch of incompetent gunslingers because an east FFDO had an accidental weapons discharge.

A much more pertinent topic has been introduced. The EVP election. I suggest debate on that topic would be much more appropriate.

A west candidate is a logical choice, if the objective of usapa is to represent all USAirways pilots, and Ferguson makes a good candidate for that position. Funded by voluntary donations, AOL I believe, has had contributions from east pilots, (but as I am not privy their records I cannot say for sure). The point being, the goal of AOL is not merely the implementation of the Nic, but the defense of pilots rights. Perhaps usapa and AOL have something in common and electing Ferguson would bridge a gap that needs to be spanned.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

DREAM ON! OUR BOYS CACTUS 18+ AINT GOING TO HAPPEN ! FERGUSON< DOYAL working for the DOWNFALL of USAPA when the votes get tallied you might get it! MM!

 

[luvthe9]

I suppose we made up the Nicolau Award? The T/A, the DFR? the denial of your 'emergency stay', what else? You cant seem to accept the reality of Binding Arbitration. Thats fine, you don't have to. Thankfully this board wont decide the outcome. Rather, the courts will.....and guess what? You've LOST EVERY TIME !

Keep Losing USAPA, keep losing !!!

You know, I might start using the west logic in life. Imagine, going to a restaurant, and seeing a long line. Then, you get to jump ahead of the people who have been there 45 minutes, with your 15 minute wait. You go to the movies, there is a long line. You get to go in 3/4 the way up the line. Not bad! You call the doctor, he tells you that you cannot get in till the end of the month. You use westie pass, and you get in the 8th of the month! You go to your next job after Airways tanks, and you get to jump in 3/4 up the seniority list. When the guy in front of you gets upset and asks what the heck you are doing, why you stand up straight, and you tell him, by gosh, I am an America West Pilot! Move aside. How is this thing ever going to be put together? Tell us, please.

 

[Black Swan]

When the referendum to eliminate the EVP position failed cheers went up from west of the Mississippi. The message that they say was sent is that the pilots have spoken and their will was clear that the EVP position should remain.

The truth is that the west pilots spoke and the message was that they saw an opportunity to “Advance The Interests of America West Pilots”. This happens to be the motto of The Army of Leonidas and its founder, Eric Ferguson, happens to be the sole west candidate for EVP

In the vote on the referendum to eliminate the EVP position west voters outnumbered east voters nearly two to one and by doing so they had their way with us. If you allow them to outnumber us in the vote for EVP they will have their way with us once again at the hands of the founder of The Army of Leonidas, whose sole purpose is the implementation of the Nicolau award, and it will be your “virtue” that gets violated.

The good news is that its not too late, three minutes of your time - the time it takes to vote - can help save decades of your seniority.

Take the time to vote. Even if Ferguson gets in, we will turn him to our position. Once he comes to Charlotte, we will get him a NASCAR pass and a still for making his own shine. We will get him in the fold.

 

[luvthe9]

The seniority system and list has already been decided, accepted by the company, and has been ordered to be used by a federal court. The EVP position has no more ability to change that list than the USAPA president does (and that position has spent two years and millions of dollars in a futile attempt to avert the NIC). Besides, the NIC is the instrument that actually preserves seniority as opposed to the east's atrocious pipe-dream of DOH which would have devalued the seniority earned by 1800 west pilots.

And here we are. Cannot merge the 5 yr. old deal. Where do the Airways pilots fit in going forward? Hard to say what is coming next. The Nic is going to permanently prevent the integration, and Parker is hanging the airline out there. Maybe it is a good thing. Next downturn, the combined behemoths will be the first to head south. Too bad the airline cannot have a complete re do, like Continental did. Two bankruptcies, and the place truly changed. Not this place. Too much greed. Parker keeps the two pilot groups disparate. The west greenlights lower pay, causing discord and rancor that will never be overcome. Then, perhaps the East pilots win some huge pay raises, and the scales shift the other way. Parker still has his way. As long as he wants to stand alone, he has his way.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

ALPA, defending the award,(THAT DREAM DIED WITH UAUA< CAL<) best guess AWA (wholly owned sub sold off to it's own demise thanks to those FREUND risk takers! MM! And that aint jiberesh MV! CLEAR D!

 

[Metroyet]

You know, I might start using the west logic in life. Imagine, going to a restaurant, and seeing a long line. Then, you get to jump ahead of the people who have been there 45 minutes, with your 15 minute wait. You go to the movies, there is a long line. You get to go in 3/4 the way up the line. Not bad! You call the doctor, he tells you that you cannot get in till the end of the month. You use westie pass, and you get in the 8th of the month! You go to your next job after Airways tanks, and you get to jump in 3/4 up the seniority list. When the guy in front of you gets upset and asks what the heck you are doing, why you stand up straight, and you tell him, by gosh, I am an America West Pilot! Move aside. How is this thing ever going to be put together? Tell us, please.

Don't you get tired of you hyperbolic whining? It's as if you flat out to refuse to acknowledge what put you in YOUR PERCEIVED unfair situation. Every menial thing you describe above is an apples to doorknobs comparison to your perception of a legal process and the REALITY of it. What is fair? should west captains vacate their seats so that a 17 year then furloughed pilot with 7 years of active service can occupy their seat? You had your chance with ALPA...ALPA gave you two more chances AFTER the award came out. You were granted 7 months to back off your DOH B.S. and at least attempt to come to some kind of compromise. YOU FAILED. Just like you refuse to believe reality now, you refused to believe it 3 years ago.

Hate to tell you this, but this train WILL leave without your ass. Nobody cares about the incessant whining any more. The 9th tipped their hand....here's a shocker...you're going to lose. Your airline, due to it's intrinsic, fatal flaws, is probably headed to BK again in the not too distant future. So, to answer your question, a BK judge will "put this together" for you. Failing that, Judge Wake will "put this together" for you or if you're lucky, perhaps Parker, tired of wasting time and energy watching you guys piss in the wind, he'll offer a decent Deltaesqe contract. If Cleary is still around and doesn't completely screw it up again like he did last week, and it gets put of for a vote, you know damn well there will be landslide approval for it. The West didn't do a G.D. thing to you guys. Your professional lives were miserable wrecks before AMW showed up with the checkbook and....literally....covered your last payroll check prior to the merger.

This delay thing is coming to an end. Age 65 blew your plan apart and not nearly enough of the total pilot group is willing to wait around another 2-10 years so you can get into your 125 dollar an hr. Captain seat. Perhaps your diatribes receive a sympathetic ear among the totally uneducated bystander at the grocery store, but you really should re-think getting onto a website populated by scores of people that know exactly how full of S*** you and your blather are filled with. You're not an idiot. You know EXACTLY the process that landed you in your little tiny world of darkness. You know the West had nothing to do with it either.

 

[Freebird]

You know, I might start using the west logic in life. Imagine, going to a restaurant, and seeing a long line. Then, you get to jump ahead of the people who have been there 45 minutes, with your 15 minute wait. You go to the movies, there is a long line. You get to go in 3/4 the way up the line. Not bad! You call the doctor, he tells you that you cannot get in till the end of the month. You use westie pass, and you get in the 8th of the month! You go to your next job after Airways tanks, and you get to jump in 3/4 up the seniority list. When the guy in front of you gets upset and asks what the heck you are doing, why you stand up straight, and you tell him, by gosh, I am an America West Pilot! Move aside. How is this thing ever going to be put together? Tell us, please.

I'm just sorry that I wont be in your presence to see the melt down when reality hits you and your sisters. Binding Arbitration is the cure for your fantasy. Believe. Sorry you couldnt steal our jobs for your Windfall fantasy. But then again, you're in the top 300 right?

USAPA= We don't care how much it costs to keep losing !!!!! East Assessment Incoming !!!

 

[Monkee]

You know, I might start using the west logic in life. Imagine, going to a restaurant, and seeing a long line. Then, you get to jump ahead of the people who have been there 45 minutes, with your 15 minute wait. You go to the movies, there is a long line. You get to go in 3/4 the way up the line. Not bad! You call the doctor, he tells you that you cannot get in till the end of the month. You use westie pass, and you get in the 8th of the month! You go to your next job after Airways tanks, and you get to jump in 3/4 up the seniority list. When the guy in front of you gets upset and asks what the heck you are doing, why you stand up straight, and you tell him, by gosh, I am an America West Pilot! Move aside. How is this thing ever going to be put together? Tell us, please.

So, the east should just staple the west to the bottom? I thought it was a merger, not a coup.

 

[cleardirect]

ALPA, defending the award,(THAT DREAM DIED WITH UAUA< CAL<) best guess AWA (wholly owned sub sold off to it's own demise thanks to those FREUND risk takers! MM! And that aint jiberesh MV! CLEAR D!

So your best guess is that the west gets sold off. I think your guess is wrong. But even so we get sold off to who?

Where does that leave the east? A smaller airline that could not compete before and still can not compete now. So now what? You try and merge your smaller airline with someone else. Who? AA or a commuter. What does the east bring to a commuter except more commuter routes.

Don't forget that little CoC thing that is blocking the east from merging. So the west may get sold but no one will touch the east. So you guys can go back to what you do best. Shrink and go BK. Maybe this time it will be the last. Full pay to the last day boys. This time we can really take capacity out of the system and the rest of us can make a living.

Going up against AA as a smaller group demanding DOH is going to get your guys killed. A&M is not DOH so you can put that dream out of your head. The arbitrators all know how the east operates and when you go to arbitration I think they may get a little pay back for ignoring one of their own.

If your guess comes true you guys may be wishing for the west back and the Nicolau because it would be better than what you might get.

Good luck and keep guessing. You have been wrong most of the time so far. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[HPDriver]

Nice work easties!!!!

Doug and company thank you for your efforts.


PHL DAY MTD
D:00 71.6 76.0
F/B:00 91.7 85.5
T:00 70.1 80.9

CLT DAY MTD
D:00 78.9 72.2
F/B:00 100.0 84.9
T:00 82.0 77.2

PHX DAY MTD
D:00 67.2 69.9
F/B:00 84.6 77.3
T:00 76.6 74.0

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Nice work easties!!!!

Doug and company thank you for your efforts.


PHL DAY MTD
D:00 71.6 76.0
F/B:00 91.7 85.5
T:00 70.1 80.9

CLT DAY MTD
D:00 78.9 72.2
F/B:00 100.0 84.9
T:00 82.0 77.2

PHX DAY MTD
D:00 67.2 69.9
F/B:00 84.6 77.3
T:00 76.6 74.0

I guess I don't understand the implication here. Are you impying that there is some kind of illegal slowdown going on out west? That would be an ILLEGAL job action.

If that's NOT what you meant, then you can just thank the other mambers of YOUR union when you get the NEXT profit sharing check which will be so graciously given to you at their expense, just like in the past.

 

[HPDriver]

I guess I don't understand the implication here. Are you impying that there is some kind of illegal slowdown going on out west? That would be an ILLEGAL job action.

If that's NOT what you meant, then you can just thank the other mambers of YOUR union when you get the NEXT profit sharing check which will be so graciously given to you at their expense, just like in the past.

Of course not old-timer.

I'm just pointing out the swell job the east is doing keeping everything on time.

And "profit-sharing check"?!?!?

Anyone care to explain to oldie how that's been going for us?

 

[cleardirect]

I guess I don't understand the implication here. Are you impying that there is some kind of illegal slowdown going on out west? That would be an ILLEGAL job action.

If that's NOT what you meant, then you can just thank the other mambers of YOUR union when you get the NEXT profit sharing check which will be so graciously given to you at their expense, just like in the past.

So we should be thanking west pilots too? I guess so since we are all members of the SAME union.

Could you tell us WHEN that next profit sharing check will appear? Let me get this straight. The east pilots GAVE the west profit sharing. Did you guys get anything for that or did you guys just hand it over for nothing in return? If you just gave it away then you guys are some pretty poor negotiators. If you did not simply GIVE it to the west but got something in return then you completely mischaracterize this profit sharing.

If you are so disappointed or upset that the east had to actually SHARE something with the west instead of taking it all for yourselves how about figuring the plusses and minuses. Profit sharing about $5000.00 total plus, almost $100,000.00 given away because the east pilot refuse to accept final and binding arbitration minus.

So much for the gifts from you east guys the minuses far outweigh the plusses.

 

[Mtnman928]

Nice work easties!!!!

Doug and company thank you for your efforts.


PHL DAY MTD
D:00 71.6 76.0
F/B:00 91.7 85.5
T:00 70.1 80.9

CLT DAY MTD
D:00 78.9 72.2
F/B:00 100.0 84.9
T:00 82.0 77.2

PHX DAY MTD
D:00 67.2 69.9
F/B:00 84.6 77.3
T:00 76.6 74.0

Apples and Oranges. Better comparison would be PHX and say LAS and PHL and say EWR. Different enviornment and different factors to weigh.

MM