Will Oneworld lose JAL?

[MERV]

JAL agrees tie-up deal with Delta: report
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/JAL-agrees-t...ml?x=0&.v=3
Japan Air Says Hasn’t Made Decision on Delta, American Alliance
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=a.Qap0OPTLKc

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

This is doomed to failure. They want antitrust immunity? Fat chance. AA and BA will sail through the approval process compared to what JAL and Delta are in for. The respective traffic shares and closed nature of NRT make it a hugely anticompetitive proposition.

JAL is going to learn the painful lesson that hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[MERV]

This is doomed to failure. They want antitrust immunity? Fat chance. AA and BA will sail through the approval process compared to what JAL and Delta are in for. The respective traffic shares and closed nature of NRT make it a hugely anticompetitive proposition.

JAL is going to learn the painful lesson that hindsight is always 20/20.

It all depends how they come out of bankruptcy. If they lose the US routes ATI will pass easily because JAL market is gone, basically DL will use it as a feeder into asia and JAL will use DL as a feeder to US. That's if they leave one world they haven't left it yet. If they come out of bankruptcy completely stripped they'll be worthless to both AA and DL. Don't forget that joining an alliance doesn't guarantee ATI, but they might have a gentlemen's agreement. DOJ dept caught couple airlines fixing prices to not compete with each other and they all were partners. ANA , UA, CO and US don't have ATI and they are part of an alliance. Same goes for AA BA and IB they' re part of an alliance and they have ATI. AA should try to get ATI for all their partners of ONEWORLD like that they finally can charge PAXs what they suppose to be charging. I read in an article that Japan's Open sky agreement will through if JAL get ATI with either DL/AA.
JAL secures ¥145 billion loan
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/...llion-loan.html
"The airline has denied that it will join Delta Air Lines and SkyTeam, ending its membership in Oneworld."

 

[jimntx]

ANA , UA, CO and US don't have ATI and they are part of an alliance. Same goes for AA BA and IB they' re part of an alliance and they have ATI.

No, you have it backwards. All of the Star Alliance (LH, UA, US) except for the newest member, CO are covered by an ATI agreement. Adding CO is more of a clerical issue than a legal issue. They just have to be added to the paperwork. AA, BA, and IB are not covered. Their application with the DOJ and the DOT is still pending. And, they are using as part of their argument the fact that Star Alliance and Skyteam have already been awarded ATI agreements.

 

[MERV]

No, you have it backwards. All of the Star Alliance (LH, UA, US) except for the newest member, CO are covered by an ATI agreement. Adding CO is more of a clerical issue than a legal issue. They just have to be added to the paperwork. AA, BA, and IB are not covered. Their application with the DOJ and the DOT is still pending. And, they are using as part of their argument the fact that Star Alliance and Skyteam have already been awarded ATI agreements.

The only ones not mention in the ATI ANA and many other partners in the star alliance.
US DOT 'not persuaded' by DOJ, grants ATI to CO/Star with limited carve-outs
http://www.routesonline.com/news/24/atw/33...ted-carve-outs/
only one's that have ATI in skyteam are DL/NW and AF/KL the rest were not mention in the paperwork.
None of the alliances have ATI its done per route and airlines involved.
ANA 'very interested' in expanded relationship with CO, UA
http://www.routesonline.com/news/24/atw/55...hip-with-co-ua/
ANA is looking for ATI with UA AND CO
Delta plans four-way Atlantic venture
http://us.ft.com/ftgateway/superpage.ft?ne...id=yahoofinance

 

[BoeingBoy]

US is not included in the UA/LH/CO ATI. In the application, adding US in the future was a said to be a possibility.

Jim

 

[MERV]

What Will Happen To JAL's Alliance Talks?
"While Japan Airlines heads toward bankruptcy, American Airlines and Delta Air Lines are both courting the carrier with offers of financial aid, aiming to gain routes in fast-growing Asian markets and a stronger foothold in Japan."
http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1263814059.html

 

[Hopeful]

Bankrutcy finally. Maybe AA can up its share of the offer beause obvioulsy it has no money for the workers!


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/ap_on_..._japan_airlines

 

[Hatu]

JAL, which has now been bailed out by the Japanese government four times in the past 10 years...

With a market value of about $150 million, JAL is now smaller than minor carriers Croatia Airlines (HRAR.ZA) and Jazeera Airways (Kuwait:JAZK.KW - News) and is worth less than one Boeing 747.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/JAL-files-fo...l?x=0&.v=14

WOW! Sounds just like the kind of company one would want to invest more than a billion dollars in!


I know, I know it is for the routes.

 

[FA Mikey]

The day has finally come.....


Japan Airlines files for bankruptcy protection

By TOMOKO A. HOSAKA
Associated Press Writer


TOKYO (AP) -- Japan Airlines filed for one of the country's largest bankruptcies ever Tuesday, entering a restructuring that will shrink Asia's top carrier and its presence around the world.

Staggering under a $25.6 billion debt mountain, the carrier applied for protection from creditors under the Corporate Rehabilitation Law - Japan's version of Chapter 11 - with the Tokyo District Court.

Japan's flagship airline will slash nearly 16,000 jobs, reduce pensions for retired staff, cut routes and shift to more fuel-efficient aircraft as part of its restructuring.

Some $10 billion of government cash will keep JAL's planes in the air during the reorganization. Lenders will forgive $8 billion in debt, and JAL shares will be removed from the Tokyo Stock Exchange on Feb. 20, wiping out investors.


full story here

 

[MERV]

Asia the prize, not JAL, in Delta-American fight
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/01/19/...ner=alertsJapan 
"Japan Airlines isn't the real prize in the fight between Delta Air Lines and American Airlines over who gets to partner with the troubled carrier.

They're after JAL's Asian routes and the premium passengers that come with them.

The winner gets a bigger revenue stream, more power to help shape overseas customer options and ticket prices and the potential to one day fly its own aircraft and passengers on JAL's routes."

 

[MERV]

Let the battle for JAL begin. I hope they stick with AA, but the saving that DL offers is bigger than what AA offers. If they stay with AA they'll transfer their US ops but with DL they'll get some of the asian and new markets in the US. The biggest reason why JAL would leave AA is one less competitor in the asian market from Japan.

"American Airlines warned alliance partner Japan Airlines that it will face a messy fight if it switches allegiance to Delta Air Lines and forms a close partnership to coordinate flying between the U.S. and Japan..."We would object vigorously," and "It would be a very unwise course for them" said Arpey.

"Although American expects to prevail in its cause, Arpey ridiculed the notion that Delta and JAL quickly could gain antitrust approval for a venture that would control about 60 percent of the market. "It would make a farce of the whole process," he said. But American may not find federal regulators receptive to its case, sources said, especially because JAL plans to shrink by about one-third as it restructures to shed more than $8 billion in debt."

"A significantly smaller JAL, when combined with Delta and SkyTeam, will not have a market share that's much bigger than United-Continental-All Nippon Airways," another alliance that's seeking antitrust immunity, said Vaughn Cordle, chief analyst at AirlineForecasts.

Added Delta spokesman Trebor Banstetter: "We are confident a Delta-JAL partnership would receive antitrust immunity, based on longstanding (U.S. Department of Transportation) policy and precedent."

American warns of fight if JAL switches allegiance
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/news/stock-a...nce-719415.html

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

How is Delta's offer better than AA/Oneworld's? As I recall Delta offered a billion and AA offered 1.4. Adding to that is the fact that regulatory approval of antitrust immunity for AA/JAL will be much easier than Delta/JAL.

 

[czerny]

How is Delta's offer better than AA/Oneworld's? As I recall Delta offered a billion and AA offered 1.4. Adding to that is the fact that regulatory approval of antitrust immunity for AA/JAL will be much easier than Delta/JAL.

Delta, through the merger with NWA, has more Asian flights as well as crew bases in NRT and MAN. Delta also has more international flights and can provide more direct connections to many of these cities. AA needs to fly the routes that came with TWA. TWA used to fly to HKG and BKK. We need more Asian flying ourselves or team up with another Asian carrier.

 

[MERV]

How is Delta's offer better than AA/Oneworld's? As I recall Delta offered a billion and AA offered 1.4. Adding to that is the fact that regulatory approval of antitrust immunity for AA/JAL will be much easier than Delta/JAL.

It depends how they come out of bankruptcy what US routes they shed it won't be that hard. They want one less competitor in the NRT to asia market. That's the main reason JALDAL want a tie up. A win win situation compare to AA. But I hope they stick to AA!!

"A significantly smaller JAL, when combined with Delta and SkyTeam, will not have a market share that's much bigger than United-Continental-All Nippon Airways," another alliance that's seeking antitrust immunity, said Vaughn Cordle, chief analyst at AirlineForecasts.

Added Delta spokesman Trebor Banstetter: "We are confident a Delta-JAL partnership would receive antitrust immunity, based on longstanding (U.S. Department of Transportation) policy and precedent."

The link to the article.
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/news/stock-a...nce-719415.html