Winter weather

[Interested]

I hope that everyone and your families caught in this winter weather out east is staying safe.

 

[Boomer]

I served in a cold weather station during the 1995-1996 winter operations period. We received so much snow that winter that the airport operator was paid off for their "snow insurance" policy, yet the majority of flights still came and went within the new 2 hour passenger captivity window.

The only thing different between now and then is that aircraft maintenance has been excluded from operational management of deicing.

Another benefit to the passengers of AA, brought to the traveling public by AMR Management.

 

[upsilon]

The only thing different between now and then is that aircraft maintenance has been excluded from operational management of deicing. Another benefit to the passengers of AA, brought to the traveling public by AMR Management.

I presume the word "benefit" above is sarcastic. As a pax, I'm curious about why we should be concerned that mechanics have "been excluded from operational management of deicing", which I presume is a fancy way of saying that ramp workers now do deicing.

Trained rampers and non-mechanic/non airline employees can be in physical contact with the aircraft in the tow, pull, push, chock, guide, fuel, open/close compartments, and be inside loading and unloading the cargo. I am familiar with the FAA requirements for deicers requiring a minimum of training and a drivers license and the European (AEA) requirement while more detailed require only four hours of training plus a written test Why should this work be restricted to those with an A&P ticket?

Or did you mean something else by "operational management?

 

[bbrooks1963]

I’m getting tired of all you bleeding heart mechanics. So shut the hell up and get over it!! It’s been this way for years. I signed on to this blog to get some real insight to what might be in the future of Title lll contract. And yes I’m a FSC. And all of you are soooo narcissistic, you make me vomit from all the pabulum you force feed this board. Not to mention all the rumors generated just to see if some moron will add another handful of snow to an all ready over bloated snow ball rumors. This forum is dominated by a group that is so out of touch with reality, I question why I even read it or even write. But it like passing the car wreck, you just got to have a look for yourself. Do I feel your pain? No. Can I at least identify on the half witted opinions that are so elegantly put forward? No. You should all be grateful for the job you now have, and have a sense pride for unclogging that LAV or making that pesky isle carpet stay down, all of you should are long overdue for a reality check.
And check your attitudes too.

 

[Hopeful]

I’m getting tired of all you bleeding heart mechanics. So shut the hell up and get over it!! It’s been this way for years. I signed on to this blog to get some real insight to what might be in the future of Title lll contract. And yes I’m a FSC. And all of you are soooo narcissistic, you make me vomit from all the pabulum you force feed this board. Not to mention all the rumors generated just to see if some moron will add another handful of snow to an all ready over bloated snow ball rumors. This forum is dominated by a group that is so out of touch with reality, I question why I even read it or even write. But it like passing the car wreck, you just got to have a look for yourself. Do I feel your pain? No. Can I at least identify on the half witted opinions that are so elegantly put forward? No. You should all be grateful for the job you now have, and have a sense pride for unclogging that LAV or making that pesky isle carpet stay down, all of you should are long overdue for a reality check.
And check your attitudes too.

Look at it this way....Mechanics have consistently lossed work since 1983 to fleet service and cabin service. Contract after contract, job responsibilities were taken away from us. This is not about attitudes. And thanks to individuals such as yourself and the TWU, you gladly took union brothers and sisters' jobs away frothing at the mouth for that OT for deicing!

So people like yourself criticize us for our feelings and opinions, meanwhile you inflated your own egos because you now do work "THAT MECHANICS ONCE DID.!"

So, put this in your pipe and smoke......................THE REASON FSC HAS TAKEN JOB FUNCTIONS FROM AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO SKILL REQUIRED AND THEY SAVE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$..

You know,,,,,,"SO EASY, AN FSC CAN DO IT"

By the way, I wouldn't be too optimistic about what is going to happen with your contract......You guys are put on hold because, as per your mediatiator, you guys have a TA that your negotiating committee refused to bring back for a vote....
And like us "narcissistic" mechanics, it will now be your turn to lose job functions when CS is totally outsourced and possibly your whole job title...

But feel free to post here when you finally get screwed.

Happy New Year!

 

[Interested]

I really didn't want this thread to turn into another b**ch and cry thread, I just wanted to say that that EVERYONE caught in those storms out east were staying safe.

 

[eolesen]

Contract after contract, job responsibilities were taken away from us. This is not about attitudes.

No, it's not about attitudes. It's all about entitlement. "MY" work vs. "YOURS"...

What's funny is the highest paid union workers in the industry seem to have the least sense of entitlement as to what is their work's vs. what's actually important to having a smooth running operation.

 

[upsilon]

So, now it is admitted and even shouted:

So, put this in your pipe and smoke......................THE REASON FSC HAS TAKEN JOB FUNCTIONS FROM AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO SKILL REQUIRED AND THEY SAVE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.. You know,,,,,,"SO EASY, AN FSC CAN DO IT"

AA should not have to pay A&P wages for "no skill required" jobs, "so easy [that] an FSC can do it."

 

[Hopeful]

No, it's not about attitudes. It's all about entitlement. "MY" work vs. "YOURS"...

What's funny is the highest paid union workers in the industry seem to have the least sense of entitlement as to what is their work's vs. what's actually important to having a smooth running operation.

So, Eric....Do you clean toilets and mop floors as part of your job responsibilities?
Who are the highest paid union workers in the industry? Don't say SWA...
Try UPS as being the highest paid. And I will tell your that THEIR JOB IS THEIR JOB..

What kind of statement is "MY work vs yours?
That has nothing to do with union work vs non union work.

Does an accountant sweep floors when it is not tax season?
Does AA VP's clean aircraft when they have nothing to do?
Do you scrub the bottom of toilet seats when not busy posting here?

Do AA VP's cross utilize their job functions?

 

[AANOTOK]

Look at it this way....Mechanics have consistently lossed work since 1983 to fleet service and cabin service. Contract after contract, job responsibilities were taken away from us. This is not about attitudes. And thanks to individuals such as yourself and the TWU, you gladly took union brothers and sisters' jobs away frothing at the mouth for that OT for deicing!

So people like yourself criticize us for our feelings and opinions, meanwhile you inflated your own egos because you now do work "THAT MECHANICS ONCE DID.!"

So, put this in your pipe and smoke......................THE REASON FSC HAS TAKEN JOB FUNCTIONS FROM AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO SKILL REQUIRED AND THEY SAVE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$..

You know,,,,,,"SO EASY, AN FSC CAN DO IT"

By the way, I wouldn't be too optimistic about what is going to happen with your contract......You guys are put on hold because, as per your mediatiator, you guys have a TA that your negotiating committee refused to bring back for a vote....
And like us "narcissistic" mechanics, it will now be your turn to lose job functions when CS is totally outsourced and possibly your whole job title...

But feel free to post here when you finally get screwed.

Happy New Year!

Nice post Hopeful.........from an unskilled 28 year fleet service clerk (cc). All I can say is your comments speak VOLUMES about you. Not sure if you are DFW based but the mechanics I know here (there are many) are not jerks like you seem to be. Must say though, would love to meet you some day and put a face with the "I am the almighty mechanic and the FSC is screwing me time and time again whine".

You have a good one Hopeful and remember, when you see a FSC deicing or doing a pushback, be sure and thank him as it's obvious you are over qualified because it's...."SO EASY, AN FSC CAN DO IT".

 

[aafsc]

Look at it this way....Mechanics have consistently lossed work since 1983 to fleet service and cabin service. Contract after contract, job responsibilities were taken away from us. This is not about attitudes. And thanks to individuals such as yourself and the TWU, you gladly took union brothers and sisters' jobs away frothing at the mouth for that OT for deicing!

So people like yourself criticize us for our feelings and opinions, meanwhile you inflated your own egos because you now do work "THAT MECHANICS ONCE DID.!"

So, put this in your pipe and smoke......................THE REASON FSC HAS TAKEN JOB FUNCTIONS FROM AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO SKILL REQUIRED AND THEY SAVE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$..

You know,,,,,,"SO EASY, AN FSC CAN DO IT"

By the way, I wouldn't be too optimistic about what is going to happen with your contract......You guys are put on hold because, as per your mediatiator, you guys have a TA that your negotiating committee refused to bring back for a vote....
And like us "narcissistic" mechanics, it will now be your turn to lose job functions when CS is totally outsourced and possibly your whole job title...

But feel free to post here when you finally get screwed.

Happy New Year!

Don't you think that giving deicing and push backs to fleet was management's idea? Do you think management wants to keep an additional 2000 aircraft mechanics just to do nothing but deicing and push backs? Do the math: Aircraft mechanic- $35/hr, severe winter storm moves in , overtime required , aircraft mechanic overtime rate, $52.50/hr. Fleet service starting part time rate $10/hr, severe winter storm moves in, everyone gets "white slipped". Part timers get a mandatory extension at $10/hr. NO OT. Pension accrual is another factor management considers, a/c mechanics accrue a great deal while a part time FSC accrues virtually nothing. Multiply this by tens of thousands of flights and man hours per month and you can see why management wanted to give it to fleet. As an FSC I personally couldn't care less if a/c maintenance got deicing back, but I doubt management will let you have it back.

With push backs management sees more than just the financial costs, they also look at schedule reliability. When I was at EAL, aircraft maintenance did ALL push backs, fleet (ramp) did NONE. We would routinely have the aircraft locked up and ready to go 5 to 10 minutes before departure time. It would take about 10 minutes to locate 2 mechanics ,who were either eating, sleeping, watching a ball game or porn, would walk slowly out to the gate, look at the aircraft, get in the van, find a tow bar and push out tractor, hook it up to the aircraft, and call the cockpit. By this time it is 20 minutes past departure time. It got to the point where EAL stood for Eastern Always Late which led to the passenger inspired "WHEAL" club, We Hate Eastern Air Lines. This encouraged EAL to do power outs and power backs; at least some of the narrow bodies could get out on time. This was during the Borman era. AA management is adamant when it comes to on time departures. Since I work (worked) at both airlines I can say without a doubt that AA's on time departure rate is infinitely better than EAL's could have ever hoped to have been because FSCs do push outs at AA. When I worked the line, the tow bar and tractor were hooked up to the aircraft within 3 minutes of engine shut down, parked brakes, and chocked wheels. Bottom line is AA management knows that having fleet do push backs is far less costly and far more efficient.

As far as losing cabin,I heard that AA's proposal called for a new classification of cabin consisting of AA EMPLOYEES who will make $7/hr; if true, then it will not be outsourced. As far as replacing all of fleet service I 'd love to see them try it. At a starting pay of $10 and change and hour part time with a 12 year top out, no pension or retiree medical would they be able to find people who could even speak english, pass a mandatory 10 year back ground check, pass a drug test or a criminal background check? Most of the people who work for those low paying ground service companies are old men who can't even speak english. How would they pass the DG and hazmat classes? They will have a hard time trying replace thousands with qualified people who can speak english who are willing to work loading 15,000 lbs. of bags on and 15,000 lbs off a 757 in 95 degrees with 90% humidity in which you are literally being cooked on that concrete ramp; all for about at most, $40, a day in take home pay. Some local restaurants pay more with benefits to their home delivery drivers where you are in you own air conditioned car. But if somehow AA is able to replace us then more power to them, at least you won't have us to blame anymore because you don't get what you feel you are worth.

 

[eolesen]

So, Eric....Do you clean toilets and mop floors as part of your job responsibilities?
Who are the highest paid union workers in the industry? Don't say SWA...
Try UPS as being the highest paid. And I will tell your that THEIR JOB IS THEIR JOB..

What kind of statement is "MY work vs yours?
That has nothing to do with union work vs non union work.

Does an accountant sweep floors when it is not tax season?
Does AA VP's clean aircraft when they have nothing to do?
Do you scrub the bottom of toilet seats when not busy posting here?

Do AA VP's cross utilize their job functions?

Well, as a managing director at my last job, I did have to unclog toilets, restock toilet paper, and even clean up the kitchen once in a while. We didn't have a "it's not my job" mentality where someone else had to be paid to clean up after us.

People Express took it to an extreme. Pilots also worked as schedulers and dispatchers. Flight attendants worked in marketing if they had the background. I'd love to see AA VP's go out and work with a crew once in a while. Jetblue used to require their managers and above to go work the in field. It gave them a much tighter connection to what was going on. Instead, AA's culture prohibits it. And the unions are just as much at fault there.

 

[Frank Szabo]

... snip
Jetblue used to require their managers and above to go work the in field. It gave them a much tighter connection to what was going on. Instead, AA's culture prohibits it. And the unions are just as much at fault there.

Personally, I wouldn't the dumb bastards around me but that's another story/thread entirely.

Here's a few examples of the typical nonsense - after going to one of the TULE hangers to do the job of a mechanic or two, Tooling gets to make replacement parts for the aircraft. Usually, part of that "make" is getting the parts plated with something protective (cad, nickle, etc.).

A little weasel of a stock clerk has made sure we don't hand carry any bushings or other parts to plating saving much time - they demand to do it and filed (and won) grievances over this "illicit" transportation of parts, even though they occasionally lose the part(s) in 100 yard trek to the plating shop and back. Nothing is ever said, even about the "loss" of parts.

The logic, as it is with all union positions, is that the whinebags wouldn't be needed if others did their jobs. By rights, we can't even change a worklight bulb on a machine - we are supposed to call maintenance and wait for an electrician to show up. When I asked for a lightbulb (DIY) rather than wating a half hour for an electrician, the crew chief in maintenance said "Do you want us doing your job?" Since I was rebuilding a dieset at the time, I said "Sure - get your fuzzy butt over to my shop and TRY."

We can't, in Tooling, tack weld parts together to expedite the machining process if necessary - we have to have an individual who is classified as a welder to make a 1/4 inch diameter tack weld.

Even the most simple fix of any machinery requires a millwright. Lubrication of said machinery requires the friendly maintenance oiler personnel.

The hangers aren't the only place with severe problems re: "ownership" of work. The sole function of said ownership is to make for more union represented heads and dues and the creation of logjams in the workflow for the company. The TWU loves it from the income aspect as this forces the company to hire more people to get "X" amount of work done, cutting what could be a raise for we rabble to zilch. The only beneficiary of this game is the TWU.

As long as Centrepork allows the egos and empires within the company and union to exist, there will be problems but these big bad Texas businessmen haven't the balls to do anything about it and it appears they'll not be growing a set anytime soon.

 

[Interested]

How in the F**k did this turn from a wish you all caught in the SNOW STORMS out east into a crying in my beer don't do my job thread. Like I said before, ALL I WANTED TO DO WAS WISH THAT EVERYONE AND I MEAN EVERYONE CAUGHT IN THOSE STORMS WERE STAYING SAFE. No wonder AA is doing so bad, NO ONE CAN READ OR HONOR ONES WISHES.

 

[eolesen]

Well, the storms were two days ago.... it's old news...

You east coasters are a bunch of sissies when it comes to winter. Come to the Midwest sometime. We still manage to survive with 1-2' of new snow on the ground, and somehow, the trains & planes keep running...