WN Mechanics seek mediation

[B737 driver]

Let's see

If you change unions it is only going to further complicate your contract negotiations. And are we to believe that the company is not offering the proper contract because of the Union name? Get some balls and do what's needed to make them give you the contract!

Let's see guys tried an overtime ban, got them fired and the union sued. Informational picketing didn't work, we could've voted on something last year union said no, then if it failed fix what was wrong.Now you have guys being fired for not following procedures.Could have pursued Med/Arb a lot of guys wanted it, to produce a T/ A to vote on, AMFA said no.We wouldn't replace them until we had a contract, just like when we kicked the Teamsters out, after we got a contract. Funny thing is alot of people didn't vote in that, and now I think people are having buyer's remorse, now that we looking at 6 years, to get a T/ A to consider. So you see they are really no better than what you guys have at American. They are still taking our dues money every month.

 

[Topcat187]

Let's see

Let's see guys tried an overtime ban, got them fired and the union sued. Informational picketing didn't work, we could've voted on something last year union said no, then if it failed fix what was wrong.Now you have guys being fired for not following procedures.Could have pursued Med/Arb a lot of guys wanted it, to produce a T/ A to vote on, AMFA said no.We wouldn't replace them until we had a contract, just like when we kicked the Teamsters out, after we got a contract. Funny thing is alot of people didn't vote in that, and now I think people are having buyer's remorse, now that we looking at 6 years, to get a T/ A to consider. So you see they are really no better than what you guys have at American. They are still taking our dues money every month.

I think it goes without saying, if they are firing people for not going by the book then you need to work by the book to the letter. Thats what they want, then give it to them.
If you want to switch unions, then i agree wait like you did last time. I just think switching unions is a feel good move. The members are what creates the strength. I wouldnt want a crap offer brought back for a vote, keep the heat on the company until they do the right thing.

 

[B737 driver]

I think it goes without saying, if they are firing people for not going by the book then you need to work by the book to the letter. Thats what they want, then give it to them.
If you want to switch unions, then i agree wait like you did last time. I just think switching unions is a feel good move. The members are what creates the strength. I wouldnt want a crap offer brought back for a vote, keep the heat on the company until they do the right thing.

Most people want to see the offer , instead of being told this is what it is, so we can decide for ourselves. If you can guarantee people will stay where they are at with their bid postions, and not have to move, plus still make their overtime, and a descent bonus and pay raise, it would pass.

 

[swamt]

Most people want to see the offer , instead of being told this is what it is, so we can decide for ourselves. If you can guarantee people will stay where they are at with their bid postions, and not have to move, plus still make their overtime, and a descent bonus and pay raise, it would pass.

Driver, you are obviously behind the curve. Your last sentence speaks volumes. You state; "If you can guarantee people will stay where they are at with their bid postions, and not have to move, plus still make their overtime, and a descent bonus and pay raise, it would pass."

The company will not guarantee people will stay where they are at. Not guarantee they will stay in their bid positions. Will not guarantee that anyone may have to move. Will not guarantee any future overtime.
I have been telling you this for some time. If you do not know this, you sir, need to get to the "road show" in person, and get all the info. and ask all the questions, in person. From what you just posted above, the current offer would not pass by a huge margin.
BTW; the offer is there to be seen. It's all over the internet, if you have not seen all the details then have no clue why not. Most all of us know all of the current offers from the company and it is not satisfactory.

 

[I'll have another]

Most people want to see the offer , instead of being told this is what it is, so we can decide for ourselves. If you can guarantee people will stay where they are at with their bid postions, and not have to move, plus still make their overtime, and a descent bonus and pay raise, it would pass.

I totally agree with you. Considering with have the lowest mech to aircraft ratio by far. This is the least we can expect

 

[B737 driver]

Driver, you are obviously behind the curve. Your last sentence speaks volumes. You state; "If you can guarantee people will stay where they are at with their bid postions, and not have to move, plus still make their overtime, and a descent bonus and pay raise, it would pass."

The company will not guarantee people will stay where they are at. Not guarantee they will stay in their bid positions. Will not guarantee that anyone may have to move. Will not guarantee any future overtime.
I have been telling you this for some time. If you do not know this, you sir, need to get to the "road show" in person, and get all the info. and ask all the questions, in person. From what you just posted above, the current offer would not pass by a huge margin.
BTW; the offer is there to be seen. It's all over the internet, if you have not seen all the details then have no clue why not. Most all of us know all of the current offers from the company and it is not satisfactory.

It comes to this you are going basically in year six, we should've come to a t/A like the pilots and F/A s in 2016 shot it down like they did. Then fixed what is wrong. I am sick of Bob Cramer telling us why we can't vote on something. We are a democratic union, and these ALRs are not listening to the membership. What AMFA has done, by driving this into year six is more than likely to present a mediocre deal that will pass. I am not behind the curve. The old guys will take the money and run. The young guys haven't had a raise in 6 years, by the time this comes to a conclusion.The Airtran guys will vote yes, because of the four year deal. We are treated well as a whole compared to our counterparts, we both know this. I know I give you crap, but I am not your enemy.No one will risk self help when we make what we do, that is reality. Why do you think AMFA has not taken a strike vote. I know you like AMFA ,I personally think they have overplayed their hand, and are really pissing people off.

 

[swamt]

It comes to this you are going basically in year six, we should've come to a t/A like the pilots and F/A s in 2016 shot it down like they did. Then fixed what is wrong. I am sick of Bob Cramer telling us why we can't vote on something. We are a democratic union, and these ALRs are not listening to the membership. What AMFA has done, by driving this into year six is more than likely to present a mediocre deal that will pass. I am not behind the curve. The old guys will take the money and run. The young guys haven't had a raise in 6 years, by the time this comes to a conclusion.The Airtran guys will vote yes, because of the four year deal. We are treated well as a whole compared to our counterparts, we both know this. I know I give you crap, but I am not your enemy.No one will risk self help when we make what we do, that is reality. Why do you think AMFA has not taken a strike vote. I know you like AMFA ,I personally think they have overplayed their hand, and are really pissing people off.

I agree that 6 years is too long. I blame both AMFA and company, but put majority in company for dragging this out for the first 5 years.
I also agree with you on how the older guys and the younger guys will vote (one of the reasons the membership hasn't voted on anything)
I know your not my enemy, when it's been this long without a contract people get tired of waiting which is what the company wants.
here's my thoughts. You outstation guys may not understand how disruptive it can get should the co. get all their must haves especially in scope. All the big maint stations do see it. Most of the scope changes they are asking will affect Dallas big time, as well as all the other maint. stations that do more than just line maint. If you were to walk thru all the back shops in dallas you would freak on how much work the company is outsourcing as we speak. And they want to do more and more.
I really do hope you can make time to get to one of the in person road shows, where they will give you a much better picture.
As far as Cramer goes, you know he can be replaced as your ALR right? The question is, is there anyone willing to step up and take his place? We've done it here in Dallas twice in the past. At least with AMFA, the membership can replace an ALR without replacing the entire union.
Now, on the AMFA issue. Rumors are growing about changing representation and getting together with the Pilots union and Jon Weaks has said he is on board with that in the past. (Jon Weaks is the current President of SWAPA)
I honestly think that if the company would move on scope and AMFA would move on the last increase in economics they passed we would get something to look at for a vote. AMFA has moved the most and the company hasn't moved once on all their must haves, it's time for the company to start moving or we will sit as is for some time. The Pilots and F/A's had leverage with the new Max's coming into our fleet, THAT's why they have voted once before and now have a contract.
What good is it to take a strike vote when we can never strike, just as the company can never lay anyone off, as both sides would be breaking the contract. If we were to strike the co. would win all fights in court and the union would no longer exist and almost everyone would be gone, do you really want that? I wouldn't. A strike vote would be a complete waste of time and stupid as we cannot strike anyway, it's in the contract.

 

[B737 driver]

I agree that 6 years is too long. I blame both AMFA and company, but put majority in company for dragging this out for the first 5 years.
I also agree with you on how the older guys and the younger guys will vote (one of the reasons the membership hasn't voted on anything)
I know your not my enemy, when it's been this long without a contract people get tired of waiting which is what the company wants.
here's my thoughts. You outstation guys may not understand how disruptive it can get should the co. get all their must haves especially in scope. All the big maint stations do see it. Most of the scope changes they are asking will affect Dallas big time, as well as all the other maint. stations that do more than just line maint. If you were to walk thru all the back shops in dallas you would freak on how much work the company is outsourcing as we speak. And they want to do more and more.
I really do hope you can make time to get to one of the in person road shows, where they will give you a much better picture.
As far as Cramer goes, you know he can be replaced as your ALR right? The question is, is there anyone willing to step up and take his place? We've done it here in Dallas twice in the past. At least with AMFA, the membership can replace an ALR without replacing the entire union.
Now, on the AMFA issue. Rumors are growing about changing representation and getting together with the Pilots union and Jon Weaks has said he is on board with that in the past. (Jon Weaks is the current President of SWAPA)
I honestly think that if the company would move on scope and AMFA would move on the last increase in economics they passed we would get something to look at for a vote. AMFA has moved the most and the company hasn't moved once on all their must haves, it's time for the company to start moving or we will sit as is for some time. The Pilots and F/A's had leverage with the new Max's coming into our fleet, THAT's why they have voted once before and now have a contract.
What good is it to take a strike vote when we can never strike, just as the company can never lay anyone off, as both sides would be breaking the contract. If we were to strike the co. would win all fights in court and the union would no longer exist and almost everyone would be gone, do you really want that? I wouldn't. A strike vote would be a complete waste of time and stupid as we cannot strike anyway, it's in the contract.

I would not want a strike, if we cannot replace our AlR and we can't get anything to vote on, then we need to join SWAPA and then get a contract done with or without AMFA we are the union AMFA is not!

 

[B737 driver]

I agree that 6 years is too long. I blame both AMFA and company, but put majority in company for dragging this out for the first 5 years.
I also agree with you on how the older guys and the younger guys will vote (one of the reasons the membership hasn't voted on anything)
I know your not my enemy, when it's been this long without a contract people get tired of waiting which is what the company wants.
here's my thoughts. You outstation guys may not understand how disruptive it can get should the co. get all their must haves especially in scope. All the big maint stations do see it. Most of the scope changes they are asking will affect Dallas big time, as well as all the other maint. stations that do more than just line maint. If you were to walk thru all the back shops in dallas you would freak on how much work the company is outsourcing as we speak. And they want to do more and more.
I really do hope you can make time to get to one of the in person road shows, where they will give you a much better picture.
As far as Cramer goes, you know he can be replaced as your ALR right? The question is, is there anyone willing to step up and take his place? We've done it here in Dallas twice in the past. At least with AMFA, the membership can replace an ALR without replacing the entire union.
Now, on the AMFA issue. Rumors are growing about changing representation and getting together with the Pilots union and Jon Weaks has said he is on board with that in the past. (Jon Weaks is the current President of SWAPA)
I honestly think that if the company would move on scope and AMFA would move on the last increase in economics they passed we would get something to look at for a vote. AMFA has moved the most and the company hasn't moved once on all their must haves, it's time for the company to start moving or we will sit as is for some time. The Pilots and F/A's had leverage with the new Max's coming into our fleet, THAT's why they have voted once before and now have a contract.
What good is it to take a strike vote when we can never strike, just as the company can never lay anyone off, as both sides would be breaking the contract. If we were to strike the co. would win all fights in court and the union would no longer exist and almost everyone would be gone, do you really want that? I wouldn't. A strike vote would be a complete waste of time and stupid as we cannot strike anyway, it's in the contract.

Swamt we just need to be smart, and not panic.I think the one thing that has made my mad, not at you, is the dues money AMFA has wasted, now local 4 , on Tuesday wants to vote on spending $20,000 on an advertising campaign against SWA in local 4 cities, what a waste, especially we just had that picketing in Chicago. I don't see spending that money when we have no more scheduled talks this year, that's what AMFA put out on the road show letter.Like I have said since I got on here, we have not been smart about the money spent or letting these 4 ALRs continue to drive the boat. If AMFA can't come around and no one wants an Industrial Union again, I never really had a problem with the Teamsters, then we form our own union join SWAPA so we have some bargaining strength, and get the deal done. If it takes till the end of 2018 or first of 2019, then so be it, people would have to understand that. Either way it would put the fear of God in AMFA if they want our dues money to keep flowing to produce an agreement that we as a group can live with, and not a crap one.

 

[I'll have another]

I agree that 6 years is too long. I blame both AMFA and company, but put majority in company for dragging this out for the first 5 years.
I also agree with you on how the older guys and the younger guys will vote (one of the reasons the membership hasn't voted on anything)
I know your not my enemy, when it's been this long without a contract people get tired of waiting which is what the company wants.
here's my thoughts. You outstation guys may not understand how disruptive it can get should the co. get all their must haves especially in scope. All the big maint stations do see it. Most of the scope changes they are asking will affect Dallas big time, as well as all the other maint. stations that do more than just line maint. If you were to walk thru all the back shops in dallas you would freak on how much work the company is outsourcing as we speak. And they want to do more and more.
I really do hope you can make time to get to one of the in person road shows, where they will give you a much better picture.
As far as Cramer goes, you know he can be replaced as your ALR right? The question is, is there anyone willing to step up and take his place? We've done it here in Dallas twice in the past. At least with AMFA, the membership can replace an ALR without replacing the entire union.
Now, on the AMFA issue. Rumors are growing about changing representation and getting together with the Pilots union and Jon Weaks has said he is on board with that in the past. (Jon Weaks is the current President of SWAPA)
I honestly think that if the company would move on scope and AMFA would move on the last increase in economics they passed we would get something to look at for a vote. AMFA has moved the most and the company hasn't moved once on all their must haves, it's time for the company to start moving or we will sit as is for some time. The Pilots and F/A's had leverage with the new Max's coming into our fleet, THAT's why they have voted once before and now have a contract.
What good is it to take a strike vote when we can never strike, just as the company can never lay anyone off, as both sides would be breaking the contract. If we were to strike the co. would win all fights in court and the union would no longer exist and almost everyone would be gone, do you really want that? I wouldn't. A strike vote would be a complete waste of time and stupid as we cannot strike anyway, it's in the contract.

I see you still do not understand the rla. I'll give you one more free lesson. No matter what the contract says, you cannot strike and the company cannot lock you out in what's called status quo. The rla does not allow it. Now, if you get to what's called self help, the rla(not what the contract says) allows the company to lock you out, and then, and only then, does the rla allow the union to strike. But we have a constitution that says we need a strike authorization vote to pass in order for the national director(only the national director) to call a strike during a self help period. Notice how the teamsters at ups passed a strike authorization vote with over 90 plus percent approving. Then the teamsters asked to be released from mediation. A strike AUTHORIZATION vote only, does not mean a strike. It lets the company know if this gets to self help and we get locked out we will strike nationwide. The LUV airline doesn't want to go there! But with no authorization we lose the lawful leverage the law allows. Get it?

 

[Go Figure]

Address the Federal lawsuits filed from both sides. Nobody wants to admit that stumbling block. Put negotiations on hold. What is amfas legal strategy moving forward? Big white elephant standing in middle of room! SWA MX negotiations will go nowhere until these are litigated /settled. In the mean time???????? I am surprised the Seham group has not addressed the membership on plan and strategy moving forward. Maybe it's a secret????? A well compensated secret at that.

 

[swamt]

Here's the times for the Road Shows in Dallas;

Dallas Road Show Schedule
Posted on September 21, 2017September 21, 2017 by admin
On August 17, 2017, AMFA and Southwest Airlines finished the last scheduled negotiation session for the foreseeable future. The AMFA Negotiating Committee has made the decision to go out and explain where we are in the process, what issues remain open, and to answer questions from the membership. The meeting schedule for Dallas is outlined below:

Monday, October 2:
Graveyard shift 0715-0915
Day shift, Bays 1 and 2 1000-1200
Eve shift 1730-1930

Tuesday, October 3:
Graveyard shift 0715-0915
Day shift, Bays 3 and 4 1000-1200
Eve shift 1730-1930

To help eliminate additional loss of time for lunch, we plan to order lunch so everyone can remain in place.

Participants will include:

Bret Oestreich – National Director
Earl Clark – Director, Region I
Will Abbott – Director, Region II
Bob Cramer – Airline Representative, Local 4
Craig Hamlet – Airline Representative, Local 11
Shane Flachman – Airline Representative, Local 18
Mike Young – Airline Representative, Local 32
Lucas Middlebrook – AMFA Counsel

***The times have changed for the graveyard guys. Instead of 0715-0945, they are now changed to 0600-0800.***
The membership should show up and voice what they would like to be done next. This will have all the nego's as well as legal counsel present for any and all questions anyone has. I for one will not allow this company to drag out nego's without full retro. If we allow that it will will happen each and every time we nego. it will be 10 years from here on out every time. Pilots received it. Why not us? We are all employees of the same company. Hold the co. to full retro, otherwise experience these same long and lengthy stall tactics from the company at each and every time we nego., that simple. Don't let them get by with just pennies on the dollar for all our retro due to us. Remember when they tried to get all our sick time at 10 cents on the dollar? We said no. And we should do the same now...

 

[B737 driver]

***The times have changed for the graveyard guys. Instead of 0715-0945, they are now changed to 0600-0800.***
The membership should show up and voice what they would like to be done next. This will have all the nego's as well as legal counsel present for any and all questions anyone has. I for one will not allow this company to drag out nego's without full retro. If we allow that it will will happen each and every time we nego. it will be 10 years from here on out every time. Pilots received it. Why not us? We are all employees of the same company. Hold the co. to full retro, otherwise experience these same long and lengthy stall tactics from the company at each and every time we nego., that simple. Don't let them get by with just pennies on the dollar for all our retro due to us. Remember when they tried to get all our sick time at 10 cents on the dollar? We said no. And we should do the same now...

We asked for something to vote on, Alrs basically call us stupid ,because they thought the one in 2009 would get voted down, and guess what it got voted in, so unless they sign off on it, we will never vote on anything, do you get it now! No raise, no new contract, But keep believing them, they can get you the moon.

 

[I'll have another]

***The times have changed for the graveyard guys. Instead of 0715-0945, they are now changed to 0600-0800.***
The membership should show up and voice what they would like to be done next. This will have all the nego's as well as legal counsel present for any and all questions anyone has. I for one will not allow this company to drag out nego's without full retro. If we allow that it will will happen each and every time we nego. it will be 10 years from here on out every time. Pilots received it. Why not us? We are all employees of the same company. Hold the co. to full retro, otherwise experience these same long and lengthy stall tactics from the company at each and every time we nego., that simple. Don't let them get by with just pennies on the dollar for all our retro due to us. Remember when they tried to get all our sick time at 10 cents on the dollar? We said no. And we should do the same now...

Bravo! I'll drink to that.

 

[I'll have another]

Driver, I mentioned the airline rep for local 4 to a couple guys at work because I couldn't place him. They said, he's the smart ass that came here with the other reps during the AirTran integration. He acted like he didn't want to be here and that he was the one that looked like a biker thug with the wallet chain hanging out his pocket. Another said he made a comment that he don't care because he's done in X amount of years. Does that sound like the character?